DH has fallen out with his siblings

[HollyhockDays]

Following their mums death DH has fallen out with his siblings. It’s a very long story - some of it was over money, some of it was over how DH felt he was treated. One sibling was on his “side” but then switched sides.

DH has not spoken to either of them for about 18 months. He says he doesn’t miss them.

His siblings don’t have kids and are keen to maintain a relationship with our kids so I try to facilitate that.

His anger and bitterness towards his brother is still very, very raw.

I just can’t accept that he’s prepared to cut them off. I assumed it would all smooth over eventually. I’m not really sure why I’m even posting!!

@HollyhockDays I can’t say who is at fault. Everyone could have behaved better / differently.

Is it really 50:50? Is it that people value different things, some value money other value sentimental items that are worth nothing. Is you DH a normally a reasonable person, if so try to understand why he is so hurt. Not everyone is lucky to have siblings they get on well with.

I was the one in my generation to organise family funeral flowers and I am always careful to include everyone’s name. The one funeral I was explicitly told not to organise them, everyone’s name but mine was on the flowers. I know it’s just a name on a card but to me it was important and deliberate act by my sibling to hurt me.

Have his siblings apologised? No apology or accountability means its extremely difficult to move on.

Your husband wants mo contact as a form of protection. He doesn't miss them. He's probably relieved after a lifetime of undermining.

I wouldnt facilitate the meetings. I would stay out of this. Imo you're overstepping boundaries by organising these get-togethers without him. Its really odd, and another example of the controlling brother getting his own way, and you facilitating this.

You are playing into his siblings hands by facilitating a relationship between your children and them. This has to stop now and your kids do not know that they are being manipulated .

His siblings have you where they want you and you are being played like a violin.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles and your Dh is the scapegoat for all their inherent ills. Hence the rest of you becoming scapegoated as well.

And likely if DH had the relationship you have he'd be heartbroken

But he doesn't

He has one that's so poor, and that he feels is so damaging to him, that he feels no relationship is better than any other option. That's not a light choice.

I've been no contact with my siblings for several years and the number of people around me who struggled (or outright refused) to accept my decision has had a horrible impact on my relationships with them.

I don't know anyone who has gone NC with siblings lightly. Keep in mind it's unlikely to be a decision made over one single event - it's a lifetime of events that have culminated in his decision now their mother has gone.

Its not about you though, and he hasn't fallen out with your sister. Your children are older teens, so more than capable of maintaining their own relationship, and you've said he isn't preventing that.
You need to stop projecting your own sibling relationships and feelings here and leave him to make his own decisions.

I agree with this ^. I haven't spoken to my sister for getting on for 18 months now. I've bitten my tongue for years over stuff she's said and I stood up for myself and made one comment and she slammed the phone down on me and we haven't spoken since. She's been shitty to my mum on occasions since so I've come to the conclusion that she's a nasty piece of work that I don't need in my life.

I still get on fine with her children (grown up and married) who agree she can be very tricky if you say something she doesn't like. She's made comments to my mum about how nice it would be to see my DD, her niece but my DD has seen what she's like, thinks she's batshit and has no desire to see her. My DD is 18 and perfectly capable of keeping in touch with her aunt if she really wanted to.

I'd actually be quite pissed off if my DH went out of his way to maintain contact like you have.

My DH is in a similar position. One of 3 siblings and he has cut himself off from the other 2 for reasons I understand.

I did make some effort to try and be reconciliatory for a while but eventually realised that wasn’t what any of them really wanted. The end result is that none of them have had any contact with each other for about 10 years. Not a single message, phone call, Christmas card or anything.

My DS who is 4 doesn’t even know they exist. I’ll explain it all to him when he’s a bit older and can understand family politics a little better!

You cannot assume he was not the family scapegoat because you did not grow up in his family. His parents being hands off is a red flag.

His late mother partly created this toxic dynamic along with her husband. Your h did not make a no contact decision at all lightly and you have also undermined him by facilitating a relationship between his siblings and your kids for your own reasons.

Trust him to know that this is the right decision for him. Other family dynamics are too hard to appreciate from the outside.

Support him in his decision. If you don’t (and unless there’s cast iron evidence that he’s completely irrational) you’ll break his heart. He’s lost his parent, now has no contact with his siblings, & will know that you’re doubting him.

I also agree with the pp that he’s unlikely to feel neutral, ok, about your children seeing his brothers. He’ll be feeling betrayed already by his brothers, he probably can’t bear to have a row with you about this, it’s just too hard.

Including you. He’s said how he feels so stop trying to get him to change his mind.

Something I would add is that you can feel utterly traumatised by the betrayal of a sibling. But it isn't about the act(s) themselves that caused the upset. Feeling so damaged comes from nobody else acknowledging how badly you were treated.

Im grateful my dh and dc are with me - they all think my eldest sibling is batshit and abusive and the other is a people pleaser, scurrying around them, doing their bidding, for a few crumbs of affection. I'm the scapegoat who has had enough. It's sad but the alternative is intolerable.

I echo everyone else - they are his siblings and it’s his decision.
Family can cause a lot of pain and resentment over the years. Lots of families drift apart when the older generation pass away.

I also think you will end up regretting facilitating the children’s relationship with his siblings. You are keeping their place in your children’s lives and if your DH wants to remain NC it means you are guaranteeing your DH can’t escape them in the future. It also might end up causing disagreements between your DH and DC when they are adults as they might then want them at important events.

You should be putting on a united front with your DH, but right now you are making yourself the weakest link with his own relatives, if he’s prone to holding onto betrayals I think you might come to regret that.

I think you're letting your relationship with your sister cloud your judgement about your DH's relationship with his family. You don't understand what its like to be the family scapegoat and you aren't even prepared to try.
I hope you haven't said to him that you think he's equally responsible for the estrangement. If you do, its likely you would be repeating the same dynamic his family uses.

It's not up to you, OP, because it's your husband's choice. He's happier this way, which is all that matters.
The fact that you get on well with your sister is irrelevant. Lots of siblings drift apart in adulthood, and it's perfectly normal.

I'm genuinely surprised at all the comments about me keeping in contact with the siblings. We met up once at Christmas with the kids and they (the siblings) have asked to do the same again soon, it's not weekly visits or anything. I will check and see what DH wants me to do before agreeing to see them again. I don't think I am 'the weakest link' or am being 'played like a violin' though.

I am not sure if he was the family scapegoat, he may have been but I don't think he was. His parents were not good, loving parents (they were not physically abusive but were distant and focused on their own lives, in fact this is one of the issues, sibling one insists on a view that they were great parents and they were a happy family - DH and sibling two don't think this. I think they should all accept they have different recollections without having to accuse anyone of being right or wrong.) Like I say they have all been dicks at various points in this whole business including DH. I am objective enough to see that.

I am not sure if he was the family scapegoat, he may have been but I don't think he was. His parents were not good, loving parents (they were not physically abusive but were distant and focused on their own lives, in fact this is one of the issues, sibling one insists on a view that they were great parents and they were a happy family - DH and sibling two don't think this. I think they should all accept they have different recollections without having to accuse anyone of being right or wrong.) Like I say they have all been dicks at various points in this whole business including DH. I am objective enough to see that.

So you don't know if he was the scapegoat or not, you are massively minimising the impact that distant and unloving parents can have, and you think he should allow his sibling (and you) to totally minimise his feelings over it all...

You're nowhere near as objective as you think you are.

Sibling one was the golden child if he thought parents were wonderful. DH was probably the scapegoat, and sibling 2 was probably consciously unaware growing up but has sided with golden child...so he musnt have ever displayed loyalty deep down. If this is the case, DH will never get validation or fair play from either of them. Golden child wants to maintain control - using you to gang up on him in a very subtle way.

Even if you only meet twice a year, its incredibly unsettling and undermining for your DH. I would never go there.

And its so weird for you to be in contact with his estranged siblings and organising get togethers whilst he has decided to cut contact. I would look at that like an ultimate betrayal.

You're minimising your DH and you are being disloyal.

If my DH did what you're doing, I think I'd file for a divorce as the trust would be gone.

Why on earth are you trying to be objective rather than just having your husbands back and supporting his decision?! I cannot imagine not wholeheartedly having my DHs back in public regardless of my view of his relationship with his siblings in private. I feel so sorry for your DH that you clearly don’t.

Because I can see there were times in the whole process where he was a dick and acted like a dick. I'd never tell the siblings that, but there were times when he went too far.

What does being the family scapegoat look like?

I'm tangled in a dysfunction like this. I'm the scapegoat even though I've always kept my head down and tried to maintain peace. I was desperately underconfident, anxious and broken as a child because of this.

My parents can't handle their own dysfunction and shame so its offloaded onto me. It took me 40 years to realise this.

Golden child brother has a superior attitude. He also took to treating me like s punching bag. My parents allowed this. I have gone no contact with him.

I honestly won't miss my parents, esp my mother, when they die. I actually look forward to the relief and freedom I will feel. My other sibling doesn't believe me when I tell him ive been emotionally abused. He was the youngest and doted on.

Your husband does not feel emotionally safe around these people. And you seem to be ganging up on him too by criticising and judging his choice to distance himself, whilst simultaneously making plans to meet these golden children.

But you ARE telling the siblings that, implicitly, by facilitating contact with DH children when he’s NC with them. Because if you supported his decision and had his back, you just wouldn’t do that. You clearly think he’s wrong to do this from your posts and that’s what your behaviour broadcasts to them. So many of us have told you that but you just don’t seem to get it which is frankly bewildering.

"he was a dick and acted like a dick. I'd never tell the siblings that, but"

The siblings know exactly what you think about your husband.

You completely undermine him by facilitating contact, despite the fact he feels so strongly that he has chosen to go no contact.

Surely you can see that @HollyhockDays?

From your actions I would interpret that your marriage is wobbly.

I'm so relieved other people see the dysfunction here.

Cross post @beetr00 but thank goodness you get it - was beginning to wonder if I was writing in Swahili from OPs incomprehension!