How to explain to DC why I don’t visit family

[Pineapple1826]

I no longer attend my In laws family gatherings with my husband and his family due to my in laws dismissive behaviour towards me. It’s healthier for me to stand back and for DH to visit with DC.

I think DC is becoming curious as to why I don’t attend. How best do I approach this? She’s young and won’t understand the details on family dynamics and issues which caused me to go NC in the first place. But I do want to be as honest as I can with her (without causing her anxiety or upset).

How old is your DC?

'I don't attend because I don't want to. I have made that decision. You attend with daddy, and when you're older you will get to make decisions too about things like this, and other things like what car to drive, what colour to dye your hair, what job to have, where to go in holiday, isn't that exciting?'

"I choose not to spend time with people who aren't kind to me".

Use age appropriate responses but do not harp on about this.

Why is your DH taking your child to see his parents ?. He could well just stand there whilst they spout crap about you into her ears. What message does that send your daughter?.

If these people are too toxic/difficult etc for you to deal with, it’s the same deal for the child too.

They’ve had contact with my DC significantly reduced due to their behaviour towards me. DH doesn’t see them as much as he did previously also out of principle for how I’ve felt about them. But he doesn’t want to go NC with his parents and I respect that. They are not unsafe for my DC but there are issues in the family with secrecy and dictating decisions to other family members, without discussion. I don’t think this will affect my DC with short visits every month (they live near), but I wouldn’t want them to have any close involvement in my childs or my life.

She’s 4.

I would reconsider sending your child to see his parents. He can maintain a relationship if he wants to but that does not follow your child has to see them too. You yourself do not see them for good reason. Also they get what they want; access to your dd without you being around. A win win for them.

All this re secrecy and dictating decisions to other family members are 🚩 red flags. Your husband has been raised by these people and likely sees this as normal so he can’t or won’t do much to protect his child from such influences.

Everything @AttilaTheMeerkat says. I was forced to see a Grandparent who openly mocked my other parent. It really hurts to be exposed to that. It only stopped because she died and I was mid teens at that point.

My own child called me out on why I would see a certain relative when they were so unkind to me. I realised I would never allow them to continue a friendship with someone who was awful to them.

At a basic level this boils down to why would Daddy want to be around people who are awful to Mummy? His wife? The person who should come joint first with his child.

He can keep seeing them if he wants but your DD shouldn't. You just say you don't want to spend time with people who have been unkind to you, set the example for your child. Why protect them? Sometimes people do unkind things but when they do it many times I don't want to go over to their house.

@PhoneMeATaxi @AttilaTheMeerkat I do agree with you both and ideally I wouldn’t want to have anything to do with them and that includes my child. But husband doesn’t want to cut them off completely so it just isn’t that simple. He’s substantially reduced contact with them and distanced from them, but I do notice that he tends to call them when he knows I’m not around (for eg if I’m upstairs busy with work etc), or takes her there occasionally on his day off, when I work full time. Basically finds ways to maintain a level of contact without affecting our family life and routine.

Difficulty also is that these things are subtle and ‘under the surface’, if that makes sense. They wouldn’t outwardly say anything to me and in fact would be very polite and kind. But underneath they make decisions which affect other family members and when those family members protest, its seen as that member being a problem and they acting the victim or pleading ignorance. I find this aspect really hard to deal with as my husbands family seem to go with it and not challenge, which makes me feel like I’m the one with the problem. The secrecy aspect really bothers me as that shuts communication down and silences individuals. Feels like if you talk out then you will be ostracized for it and I prefer to just stay out for my own mental healths sake.

I would (as PP have said) reconsider the access they have to your child in general. 4 year olds pick up on a lot and they’re like little sponges soaking up all sorts. I am always shocked at what DS (just turned 5) picks up on.

Keep it short and sweet imo, a “I don’t like spending time with people who aren’t nice to me” will do. I once asked my mum why she never went to my nannas with me and she said “cuz she smokes like a chimney and she’s an evil witch.” Now I’m an adult… kind of true - but at the time it scared me because I thought she was literally a witch, she was actually just an enabler.

I mean, is she actually asking why? I can’t imagine a 4 year old would even ponder this. It’s perfectly normal for each parent to take their child to visit their own family. Just say dad wants to spend time just you and him with granny and grandpa. My Dh often sees his family without me. Not because we have any beef. I just don’t need to chaperone him everywhere he goes and he’s perfectly capable of facilitating a visit without me. It’s good for him to have that time with his mum.

I’m NC with my family and only my eldest (a teen) has ever asked why. The younger one doesn’t remember a time when we saw them and doesn’t care.

Agreed.

Difficulty also is that these things are subtle and ‘under the surface’, if that makes sense. They wouldn’t outwardly say anything to me and in fact would be very polite and kind. But underneath they make decisions which affect other family members and when those family members protest, its seen as that member being a problem and they acting the victim or pleading ignorance. I find this aspect really hard to deal with as my husbands family seem to go with it and not challenge, which makes me feel like I’m the one with the problem.

And, tbh, none of this sounds like anything at all to do with you, @Pineapple1826 . Surely it's up to this family member to manage their own relationship with your PILs, rather than your job to wade in?

I think it's fine, if she questions, and she may just accept it as the status quo, to say that they're not your people and that's ok, not everyone is for everyone, so you give them the swerve and that works out best for you.

It sounds like you are making drama where there isn’t any. They are fine to you? So what is the problem??

I always roll my eyes at these angsty posts too. My maternal granny was pretty mean to my dad - he just rubbed her up the wrong way and she was pretty outspoken. We used to giggle about it at home. She was a wonderful granny to me. It had no impact on my relationship with her and my dad wouldn’t have wanted it to. He recognised that his relationship with his mother in law had nothing really to do with my relationship with my granny.

Can you give an example of what they have done to you?

At age 4 I’d be surprised if she has even noticed, but you could keep it simple and say “they are dad’s parents and your grandparents, I visit my own parents instead”.

Though from what you’ve described it doesn’t seem like they have done much to warrant you being “NC”, so be wary of causing friction in your husband’s and daughter’s relationship with them. If I’ve read your update correctly, the parents have trouble with someone else, and if you spoke up about that they would be annoyed with you but wouldn’t say anything to you - that seems like quite a projection on your part.

My MIL started gossiping and would speak badly of family members behind their backs. I felt uncomfortable as how do I know whether she’s doing the same to me? Or even if in future she’d do the same to DC about me? PIL got pushy about moving to our town. DH and I were really uncomfortable with the idea as we sensed they wanted to have more input in family life and socialising with us more than we wanted to. We said that nothing would change in terms of contact but within a week of them moving I was getting multiple messages asking when we’d come to visit with DC. The pushy behaviour has now caused a rift. Either you do things in their way, or you are just wrong. There’s no understanding of varying perspective and life choices 🤷🏻‍♀️

So you are saying you no longer see your PILs at all, not because they talked about you behind your back, but in case they might and you wouldn't know? And they asked you when you could visit with your child too often?

You're the one who is coming out of this looking like the one with issues, and not understanding 'varying perspective and life choices'.

They have absolutely no right to come near my family and life and expect visits from myself or my family any more than before. We never decided to move near them and they forcefully put themselves near us so that they could have a family life that suited them. They didn’t want to discuss it and when we tried it was shut down.

MIL speaks badly of lots of family members, so yes, obviously I’ll be concerned that she does/ or will do the same to me. I can’t engage with it.

These people have been dismissive to you for years. You would not tolerate this from a friend so I can see why you’ve backed right away from them.

You are really playing into their hands by you allowing your daughter to go with her dad there. It’s a win win for them because they see their grand daughter. They could not care less about their son or you as her mother. They know their son will do as he’s told and he is mired for his part in fear obligation and guilt.

I don't think children should have any reason to know about any problems.. I can't imagine they are interested at 4 either. If she asks I would say oh bit busy today and then it's all forgotten

Really? You think given their behaviour toward every other family member OP would be the one spared? Considering she is the one not lying down and taking their crap means she is even more of a target. Everyone in the family has just learned to keep quiet or endure their wrath. Some parents are my way or the highway, will not listen to you as you are still deemed "a child" in their eyes. Hence the move and then asking for more visits with their grandchild despite being told geography would not change frequency before the move.

Unless you know what this is like it seems mad from the outside. Phrases such ah, well, you know what they are like means this person behaves outrageously and gets away with it because no one will challenge it. I went to a wedding where the groom didn't invite his violent, vulgar mouthed brother. Brother turns up anyway, starts a fist fight, police are called. Groom upset, Dad says well you know what John is like. No remonstration, just acceptance. But this is why he wasn't fucking invited.

For you OP I would look up FOG, Fear, Obligation, Guilt. Your Dh has been raised in this family and this is his normal. You need to help him unpick their behaviour and his response to it. Why isn't he wanting to stand by his wife in this? Sneaking your DD off to meet them, secret phone calls all mean that they get exactly what they want despite treating you badly. What does that teach your child in the long run?

Children learn about families in school anyway, they learn their grandparents are their Dad's Mum and Dad etc. Stop making out that a 4 year old doesn't ask why Mum doesn't come with them. Some children just pick up on a lot of things.

I would do what I could to limit your daughter's contact with your ILs, especially as you are not present to protect her from their negativity and also because your husband has been raised to tolerate their behaviour.

Between the secrecy and the gossip/negativity, these people are not a good influence around your child and clearly can't be trusted as you keep mentioning secrecy. The pushiness just goes along with their general toxic nature.

As for what to tell her, I'd just say that you prefer not to spend time with them and leave it at that for now. When she is older, you can be more open about your reasons, but by then, it is possible that your MIL may have filled her head with malicious lies about you to try to turn your own child against you.

@AttilaTheMeerkat @PhoneMeATaxi @MyLittleNest I’ve gone down the route of limiting contact but not stopping completely. Other family tend to only visit twice a year anyway but as we live near my husband tends to pop in and out for the days they are visiting. Then he visits for the odd afternoon here and there to balance it so that visits are generally no more than other grand children who live hours away. That seems to be the compromise that we’ve come to but like I say, if I could choose, I’d want no contact at all for my child. Husband is sensitive to the fact that I don’t want DC involved with them so he does bear that in mind when deciding whether to visit with DC or not.

So what, though? My PILs aren't keen on me, and aren't subtle enough to hide it very well, or their deep nostalgia for DH's previous girlfriend, who was more their type of person. I'm quite fond of them despite their limitations. They did, after all, produce my lovely DH. We've always talked to DS about the way they are, and that it's possible to maintain a relationship with someone and not endorse some of their behaviours. They're in their 80s and aren't going to change now.

I just don't see the need for such melodrama.