How can I get DH to admit his drinking is problematic?problematic m

[TheMidnightSociety]

ETA: I typed this on my phone whilst breastfeeding at 2am and couldn't see that autocorrect had added "problematic m" to the title - I promise that I haven't been drinking too!

My DH has always been a big drinker, but since getting pregnant and having our baby 2 months ago, meaning my own alcohol consumption has ceased, I'm now hyper aware of how much drinking he does. Since DC was born, he's only gone one day without drinking at all, and that was yesterday, because I pressured him to prove to me he could do a day without drinking. However, tonight he's drunk a whole bottle of wine on his own. I did keep making comments every time he poured another glass, and he just laughed it off by saying he's "making up for yesterday". The thing is, there's always a "reason"' to drink. The current reason being he's on annual leave so he's "on holiday". When he's at work, it's because he's had a hard day and needs to relax...

His behaviour when drinking isn't problematic, and unless he's been out at a social occasion which revolves around drinking, he's not normally "drunk"' (though I know that in itself is a concern as it suggests high levels of tolerance associated with alcoholism). It doesn't stop him from being an attentive husband and he's been incredible in taking charge of the domestic labour since DC was born. He dotes on DC and really looks after us both. But I just don't understand why he needs to drink every day when he seems perfectly content with his life?

I've been very open with him about how concerned I am, but he keeps brushing it off. These are the things I've said to him so far:

-I'm concerned about his ability to safely hold and care for the baby once he's passed the drink drive limit. He hasn't done anything to suggest he is a risk, it's just an instinctive concern that something could happen (and I have on occasion actively refused to allow him to hold the baby when I think he's had a few too many).
-If there's an emergency, it's going to come down to me to take charge as he won't be able to drive us anywhere.
-The fact he "needs" a drink every day makes me worry he's not happy.
-Once DC gets older it's going to set a bad example and may affect their relationship with alcohol.

He's been SO dismissive of every angle I've taken so far and just tells me I'm worrying unnecessarily. I think in his mind, because he's spreading his drinking out over many hours, doesn't "feel"'drunk and doesn't have any major behavioural or personality changes, that it's not a problem. But the fact he doesn't seem willing or able to go without drinking - and needs to "make up for it" on the rare occasion he does abstain - is really concerning me. I love him and I don't think we're anywhere close to this being a relationship deal-breaker. But now we have a child he needs to change his habits, and he just doesn't seem to recognise that at all.

I'm reaching out to MNetters to ask the following:

-Advice on other angles I can take to convince him to adjust his behaviour.
-Experiences of others who've had alcoholic partners/had issues with alcohol themselves and successfully changed their habits - how did it happen?

I know inevitably I'm going to get some LTB comments. That isn't going to happen. I love him, I'm very happy in our relationship and he's a good man. I just need some practical advice rather than judgment. Thanks all.

Well you could join Al Anon, which is for the relatives of alcoholics. I think it can be really helpful about how not to enable them

That's the thing about alcoholics: they can only do something about their drinking when THEY decide it's a problem.
I agree with pp that Al Anon might hopefully be helpful to you.
Have you actually counted the number of units he drinks in a week? If you did an exercise together in totalling them up and comparing it to the " safe" recommended number of units it might help shock him into realising the level of damage he is doing to himself.

There's an alcohol support section on here - https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support

There's a support group or start your own post, everyone is really lovely.

Op , there is a very high chance that you can't convince him to change his behaviour. He'll have to make that decision himself. I'm not going to say that he can't change , because people can if they want to and are willing to do the work. Only time will tell how your husband Will behave.

I can't help with your second question because my father was an alcoholic, this normalised drinking for me , I then married an alcoholic. One of these men died an alcoholic , the other continued to abuse his body after I left him.

Him always having a reason to drink sounds very familiar. I've heard everything ranging from 'it's Tom's birthday' to 'it's Frday , everyone drinks on a Friday'. The reasons get more ridiculous as time goes on in most cases.

Joining Al anon is a good idea. I feel for you because you have a new baby and are in survival mode , this is the last thing you need. Please prioritise yourself and your baby.

You can’t.

If and when he acknowledges that his drinking is problematic, he will come to that realisation himself. No amount of different approaches from you will do it for him. And right now he will just view your talking as nagging.

Even if he doesn’t admit it consciously, somewhere in the back of his mind he will know that drinking every day is not great. That said, he may not ever admit it out loud.

Honestly I would stop talking to him about it for now and work on what you want. Is it a deal breaker for you?

Thanks all, I'll check out AI Anon and the MN group.

@TerrorAustralis it's not a deal-breaker no, not yet anyway. Like I say, given it doesn't currently affect his behaviour or mood, it's not having a negative impact on our lives other than concern on my part. Being honest, before DC I also enjoyed a drink and we were a bit of a party pair - work hard, play hard, the life of a DINKY! But I've only ever been a weekend drinker, never daily, and I found it very easy to stop altogether when I got pregnant. I just assumed he would readily do the same when the baby arrived - I guess I didn't realise that he'd gone beyond the point of being a social drinker.

@OrangeAndPistachio my mum has a bad relationship with alcohol so you have my sympathy. Sounds like I've gone down a similar path to you, jumping from being raised by a drinker to marrying one. And I really want my LO to have a stable, safe home that I never did. I just hope it'll be with their DF in it.

Sounds like he’s in the habit of pouring himself a glass every day. I used to be like that in my 20’s and 30’s but a serious health issue meant I had to have no alcohol at all for 6 months and that acted a a reset. I hardly drank at all for 10yrs. Now i’ll have a glass or 2 on the weekend. Back when I drank every day, having a glass of wine was all I thought about. Sometimes I’d try and have no drink all week, and it was really hard. It wasn’t a healthy way to live at all. This weekend I went out for food, to a concert and drank soft drinks. Back then i’d have been horrified at the thought and I used to think it was odd people didn’t drink. Thank God I changed.

Have you told your DP that you’re concerned about him handling baby etc when he’s had a drink? I’d be having a serious chat with him. Assume it means he cannot help during the night etc?

@Zanatdy yes I've explicitly told him this and, on occasions where his drinking has been to excess like last night, I won't let him hold the baby. He gets visibly upset by this but he's never challenged it or insisted I should let him, so either he knows deep down he shouldn't be doing it, or he just thinks I'm being an anxious FTM and he's trying to appease me. I'm EBF so he's not able to help overnight anyway, but he is unaware of how often baby wakes up when he's had a heavier night. This morning the baby woke at 5am. He stirred, asked if baby had slept all night through as he "hadn't heard a thing all night", then immediately went back to sleep. Which is another sign that he's drinking especially heavily now he's on annual leave - normally on a work day he takes the baby so I can get a bit more sleep before he goes to work. He's obviously feeling a bit delicate this morning as he hasn't even offered. I will flag this with him today; if he realises he's already making subtle changes to his parenting support as a result of drinking too much, maybe the penny will drop.

My experience is, they will never admit they have a problem and you will drive yourself insane watching them, counting units, rolling your eyes and hand wringing on what to do about it. In my case i enabled i guess in a way, id be the person in control with kids when we went out, he would have a drink. Id be the one driving to family events, he would have a drink. Id be the one doing feeds/bedtimes as he half heartedly rushed through it all because he wanted to sit on sofa with a drink. Id be the one decorating the house on my own as he was sat on the sofa with a drink. Id be the one taking the kids out on a weekend alone as he would either be recovering from a hangover/going out with his mates drinking/sat on the sofa drinking “cant be arsed, im tired”! Yeah me too mate. Got no money for kids entertainment as hes spent on daily alcohol.

its a fucking shit life.

ive just received an email this morning in fact to say my divorce is finalised and im no longer married! Thank fook!

i put up with this for a very long time, i do hope you dont waste as much of your life as i did x

He's already leaving the heavy lifting to you op. You're two months postpartum and should be showered with support and offers to help you rest. What you're experiencing isn't good enough. You're right in thinking that a drunk person can't be responsible for a baby.

I'm not judging you op , and I understand that you love him. But where do you draw the line? You'll be doing the work of single parent if his slide into alcoholism continues , and I don't need to tell you how seeing this impacts a child as they grow up.

I tolerated it for over a decade and I regret giving so many chances.

I'm not trying to overwhelm you op , but I just reread what you typed about him being fully aware that you won't let him hold the baby when he's been drinking heavily. So basically he knows that alcohol is standing in the way of his parenting , but he does it anyway. He's in deep isn't he? His primary relationship is with alcohol.

This.

And him being quite happy to be unable to hold his own child in favour of having a drink really should be a deal breaker for you OP.

You did not cause it, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it.

There are no combinations of words or phrases you can use that will work here on him. Unless he himself comes to the realisation that he does indeed have a problem with alcohol there is nothing you can do to help him. Not that he wants your help or support anyway and your concern is being dismissed as white noise. Love is not enough and that will soon turn to further resentment when you finally realise he cannot step up to parent his child, preferring alcohol instead. When is this man ever sober?. Likely not because he’s always on a comedown from alcohol.

Alcoholism is known as the family disease for good reason and you are affected by this.
Your mums own problem relationship with alcohol(she’s an alcoholic too isn’t she) set you up good and proper to somewhat accept your now Hs drinking.

Where was your dad here?. I ask as you do not mention him.

Your boundaries in childhood got skewed by alcoholism. Not all alcoholic people sit on park benches nor do they drink out of paper bags.

Denial is a powerful force and he’s mired in it. It’s no life for you or your child and if you really do want to give your kid a safe and stable childhood then you’re going to have to do it without your drunkard h. You have a choice re this man and your child does not. You’re already doing the heavy lifting now as he cannot and equally won’t step up. Alcohol is a cruel mistress.

My dad walked out on us when I was a baby as he'd got someone else pregnant after cheating on my mum (probably a reason she ended up turning to drink as a crutch). He ended up walking out on that family too, he's not a good man. This is a major factor in influencing my drive to make my own marriage work.

I fully appreciate how what I've written may be coming across, but I'm definitely not living the life of a single parent currently as some have suggested. DH is doing all domestic tasks - cooking, cleaning, laundry, shopping etc. I really do mean it when I say he's a good man, and he's looked after me well since the baby was born. It's not every night that he drinks enough to be drunk or to leave me reluctant to pass over baby care to him, but it has happened on more than one occasion, including last night. I did have a word with him this morning about how he's clearly worse for wear after drinking too much wine last night, and how I was annoyed that it had stopped him from helping out with the morning wake up like he normally does. He did apologise. I was also relieved to see that he hadn't bought any alcohol when he did the food shop earlier, so perhaps the penny is starting to drop that he can't continue behaving in such a carefree manner__ now he has a child.

What your dad did was both cowardly and awful but your situation now is entirely different from what he ended up doing. Your h is a drunkard and you were yourself left with an alcoholic parent. It’s affected you markedly. And this will affect your child too. He or she will come to notice your constant preoccupation with their dad and will notice how you behave and otherwise act around him. He or she will pick up on all the vibes here both spoken and unspoken between you and their dad.

It’s no real consolation he did not buy any alcohol as part of the food shop; he will obtain some when needed. And you also noticed he did not buy any alcohol, do not police his drinking. Your man will continue to find any excuse in order to drink and there’s no off switch with him. He does not want to address his drinking so will remain in denial and may well hide alcohol in places like his car, a water beaker, behind the cistern etc. you will certainly notice all the empties in the recycling bin.

For your part you will continue to play out the usual roles in these situations namely codependent partner, enabler and provoker because you never forget. And again you have a choice re this man and your child does not.

As pp have suggested, you will find help and support at Al Anon from people who have been through or are going through the same as you.

Nobody is saying that he's a bad man op , but from what you've typed alarm bells are ringing.

Obviously we don't expect great detail on a forum , but please think about how he responded to you talking to him about his drinking. Did he openly talk about it or did he just apologise to end the conversation? I also urge caution when you assume that he didn't buy alcohol when he was out. You can only really know if you were with him at all times. People get sneaky when they've been found out.

I wish you all the best op. But based on my marriage with an alcoholic I feel that you need more than an apology and a shopping trip without visiting the booze aisle. I'd want to know what his plan is going forward , will he seek help? How will he cope with nights out? If he can't answer these questions fully then he's most likely not going to change and you'll be having the same thoughts about his behaviour in 2 days time.

You can phone Al Anon and just tell them your concerns. It was great having someone to talk to . Nagging doesn’t work. I realised I had been enabling my OH drinking for years by sweeping it under the carpet, becoming a family joke, walking on eggshells, ignoring the empties hidden in the garage. It took more than one ultimatum for him to wake up, seek support himself and give up. We’ve both been alcohol free for 4 years and are still together. We certainly wouldn’t have been without Al Anon.

He may do 24 hrs off and then will drink to make up tomorrow. Another thing to think about is would he drive early morning? He might possibly be over the limit. Would he drive with baby in the car?

I just need some practical advice rather than judgment.

Join Al Anon which is for the loved ones of problem drinkers. Make it clear that he's not caring for your child while under the influence and under no circumstances to drink drive.

Read up on codependency, it will help you to detach with love. Codependent No more and Codependency for Dummies are good.

Let go. You can't control his drinking.

Mmm, to me it sounds like he IS drinking too much and I'd be worried about his health - weight in the short term, other health issues longer term - but it doesn't sound like his drinking is directly impacting you or him and so I'm not sure I'm fully behind the calls of huge issues right now.

Yes, last night he had a bit too much but quite frankly, if he wasn't appearing super drunk I'm not sure why you woldn't let him hold the baby. And yes, ut's not great that he slept through any wake ups and then wanted a lie in today, but you say yourself he's usually very good and he's on holiday so I'm not qure sure having a bit too much is a problem in this instance. On a normal night, how much is he drinking?

To me, this would be more of a watch and see situation. A reminder that too much alcohol isn't good for the liver, for weight and for other long term health outcomes and yes, a concern that he's dependent so something to watch. But if he's otherwise behaving in a positive way, I don't think that you need to be going for the nuclear option right now.

How long do you watch and wait though?. Three months, six months, a year?. What op has tried to date has not worked. Why is leaving seen as some sort of nuclear option when he is showing no indication that he wants to address his drinking.

op has written that since their child was born a mere two months ago he has only not drunk alcohol on one evening. This is affecting the op markedly: she’s being triggered yet again and is hyper alert to his drinking.

@AttilaTheMeerkat that's what's insanely difficult about this situation isn't it? What has to happen for the op to walk away , must she stop going out because she doesn't trust her husband? Should she wait until he becomes a completely useless parent , or even loses his job?

I hope Al anon gives @TheMidnightSociety some clarity. I know none of this is easy.

For me, it's when the alcohol consumption really is causing an issue. At the moment she is triggered by it - but arguably that's something she needs to deal with for herself.

If his behaviour as per last night is a regular thing, then yes, that's something that needs dealing with and I wouldn't stand for it (and, for example, much as I love a wine, i barely drank for years because I found doing nights with the DC too difficult after even one glass of wine). But she has said herself that usually he absolutely is pulling his weight.

I appreciate this is not a common MN view but there are plenty of people who live perfectly normal and capable lives while having a drink most nights. It's really not that unusual.

I was in a very similar situation with my DH. He drinks every day - not to excess but everyday. I also think he drinks more than I realize. I came to the realization that I cannot control how much he drinks. What I could control is his drinking around our young children. i know it makes me sound like a bossy cow, but I told him NO alcohol in the house until our youngest son was 18. It was a long time but he stuck to it I don't know that it curtailed his drinking (which was not the point for me) and you better believe he was thrilled to have our youngest turn 18!