How can I get DH to admit his drinking is problematic?problematic m

[TheMidnightSociety]

ETA: I typed this on my phone whilst breastfeeding at 2am and couldn't see that autocorrect had added "problematic m" to the title - I promise that I haven't been drinking too!

My DH has always been a big drinker, but since getting pregnant and having our baby 2 months ago, meaning my own alcohol consumption has ceased, I'm now hyper aware of how much drinking he does. Since DC was born, he's only gone one day without drinking at all, and that was yesterday, because I pressured him to prove to me he could do a day without drinking. However, tonight he's drunk a whole bottle of wine on his own. I did keep making comments every time he poured another glass, and he just laughed it off by saying he's "making up for yesterday". The thing is, there's always a "reason"' to drink. The current reason being he's on annual leave so he's "on holiday". When he's at work, it's because he's had a hard day and needs to relax...

His behaviour when drinking isn't problematic, and unless he's been out at a social occasion which revolves around drinking, he's not normally "drunk"' (though I know that in itself is a concern as it suggests high levels of tolerance associated with alcoholism). It doesn't stop him from being an attentive husband and he's been incredible in taking charge of the domestic labour since DC was born. He dotes on DC and really looks after us both. But I just don't understand why he needs to drink every day when he seems perfectly content with his life?

I've been very open with him about how concerned I am, but he keeps brushing it off. These are the things I've said to him so far:

-I'm concerned about his ability to safely hold and care for the baby once he's passed the drink drive limit. He hasn't done anything to suggest he is a risk, it's just an instinctive concern that something could happen (and I have on occasion actively refused to allow him to hold the baby when I think he's had a few too many).
-If there's an emergency, it's going to come down to me to take charge as he won't be able to drive us anywhere.
-The fact he "needs" a drink every day makes me worry he's not happy.
-Once DC gets older it's going to set a bad example and may affect their relationship with alcohol.

He's been SO dismissive of every angle I've taken so far and just tells me I'm worrying unnecessarily. I think in his mind, because he's spreading his drinking out over many hours, doesn't "feel"'drunk and doesn't have any major behavioural or personality changes, that it's not a problem. But the fact he doesn't seem willing or able to go without drinking - and needs to "make up for it" on the rare occasion he does abstain - is really concerning me. I love him and I don't think we're anywhere close to this being a relationship deal-breaker. But now we have a child he needs to change his habits, and he just doesn't seem to recognise that at all.

I'm reaching out to MNetters to ask the following:

-Advice on other angles I can take to convince him to adjust his behaviour.
-Experiences of others who've had alcoholic partners/had issues with alcohol themselves and successfully changed their habits - how did it happen?

I know inevitably I'm going to get some LTB comments. That isn't going to happen. I love him, I'm very happy in our relationship and he's a good man. I just need some practical advice rather than judgment. Thanks all.

There is no angle you can take, no way you can phrase it to make him go Aha! I see exactly what you mean and I'll take action to address it immediately, thanks for the nudge, I wasn't aware.

This isn't going to happen. All you can do is state what you see happening and how it affects you. What he does with that information is on him. Focus on what he does, not what he says. This really is a case of hands off and protect yourself with excellent boundaries, partnering an addict is not an easy road. I'd get in touch with AlAnon as suggested upthread.

So your Dh didn't drink to excess but you still didn't like it so you banned it?

I cannot even begin to fathom how that is even vaguelly healthy in a relationship.

On a "normal" night he maybe has 3-4 bottles of beer, spread over a few hours, hence why he's never usually drunk. He doesn't normally drink wine; we had a bottle left over from hosting a big family meal a while ago and he elected to drink it last night. He did offer me a glass but I'm currently EBF so significantly limiting my own alcohol consumption. To be honest, I don't ordinarily see it as a huge problem to drink a bottle of wine over the course of an evening (as long as it's not a daily thing) - I've certain done it myself! The reason I'm concerned about the drinking currently is because we're new parents. In my view he needs to be fully focused and responsible, and drinking alcohol daily, even if not enough to get drunk, isn't conducive to that. I was essentially trying to make a point last night (and previous nights where he's taken the drink further than normal) that if you're not safe to drive a car, you're not safe to care for a newborn. It'd be different if we had an older child, but I just think when they're so small and vulnerable, and we're new parents learning the ropes, we should be on our A-game at the moment.

I don't agree with the assessment that he's a "drunkard", @AttilaTheMeerkat, as he is very rarely drunk (I can always tell when he's descended past the point of pissed). He's also absolutely in no way in a situation where his job is at risk. I think @Triffid1 is closest to the mark in recognising that it is possible for people to drink daily without being drunk or problematic, and that's very much where my DH is. When people become parents, you have to make changes to your lifestyle, and as I said earlier, I just assumed that we'd both be on the same page when it came to curtailing the social/casual drinking once DC came along. I really just want to try and get him to see that, in the first instance, and to action it. We're a long way off blowing up the family unit over it. I honestly don't think I would have survived the first month postpartum if it weren't for his domestic support. He's a significantly more hands on and supportive DH/DF than some of the horrors I read about on here, alcohol consumption aside.

I think it’s the amount he drinks that’s the issue, rather than how often. I have friends (mostly men) who have a beer or two maybe 5 times a week, usually after work and in a social setting. A whole bottle of wine at home does seem excessive. Is he drinking this amount or more every day?

No, as explained in my most recent update, he doesn't normally drink wine. On a normal night he'll have maybe 3-4 beers. But there has been a few occasions since DC was born where he's gone past this, some on nights out with friends or colleagues, and a few times at home. For example, he's big into football, so England matches during the Euros have been a driving force behind bigger binges at home in recent weeks. And now he's on annual leave so "I'm on holiday" was last night's justification for drinking more.

His job may not be at risk yet because the wheels have not fallen off. If he continues to drink as he does this could well happen. Do not think this scenario only happens to other people.

"I really just want to try and get him to see that, in the first instance, and to action it"

He will never see it or action it. He does not see his drinking as a problem yet you persist in thinking that some magical combination of words from you will make him think more about his drinking. Is that really better for you than the truth i.e. he has a long term alcohol dependency. His apologies, and you have likely heard many already, are meaningless and said primarily to end the conversation.

You grew up seeing a heavily drinking parent so your boundaries around alcohol are skewed. That is not your fault but no-one protected you from that.

Drinking daily is a problem and you know it. You will not let him readily hold your child if he has been drinking. It is a problem too because you notice a change in him when he has been drinking and you've already been policing his drinking. An elder child would also notice your reactions, both spoken and unspoken, to dad's drinking.

Do not talk, do not trust and do not feel are three unwritten rules in alcoholic families. Do you really want to bring up your child in such a family?.

What is the longest period of time to your direct knowledge has he gone without alcohol?.

I couldn't get worked up about 3-4 beers over the course of the evening except for perhaps some worrying about his calorie intake.

Agree with this, although it depends on his size. DP is tall/built and would barely get tipsy from 3-4 beers over the course of an evening, never mind drunk.

I would keep an eye on his drinking, perhaps, but it doesn’t seem to be causing any major issues in the relationship, so I’d let him be for now.

It does not matter that he does not drink wine; it is alcohol all the same and it will do. He will also find any occasion or any excuse in which to drink alcohol; he cannot physically and mentally do or cope without it. It's Christmas, it's my birthday, it's Tuesday, it's pizza night, I'm unhappy, OP has been going on at me about my drinking etc. Any excuse to drink.

Not all alcoholics sit on park benches and many of them hold down family lives and jobs. Until they do not.

This comment amongst many from the OP in one of her posts is worrying:
"Since DC was born, he's only gone one day without drinking at all, and that was yesterday, because I pressured him to prove to me he could do a day without drinking". How does this tally with her assertion that she could not have survived the first month post partum without his support?.

It sounds like you want his and your lifestyle to change now you’ve had DC, for the sake of it. If something isn’t causing issues, I think the whole “but we’re parents now, surely we have to stop doing this” is a bit unreasonable / controlling.

If he comes across as very rarely drunk he has likely also developed a high tolerance to alcohol. He's likely to be always on a comedown from it so is still feeling its effects.

And a day without drinking counts for nothing in the great scheme of things.

As a grown man, you would have to be tiny, or have a very low tolerance for alcohol, to be visibly drunk from 3 bottles of beer over the course of an evening. Beer is what, 5%? 3 bottles is around 1 litre of beer. So it’s about the same alcohol as 2 small glasses of wine.

I’m a petite woman and even I would not get drunk from two glasses of wine over a few hours.

My ex partner was just like this and four months ago dropped dead leaving his two sons to live without him. Alcoholism is such an awful disease and ruins families. My advice though for what it’s worth is that you won’t be able to make him change, what you need to decide is if you can live with him constantly drinking. I wish you luck OP.

I’d look at the weekly safe drinking advice and compare it with his.

I’d think about my hard lines. Get them clear so this doesn’t tiptoe across them without you realising.

I would talk to him about having a preference that you don’t want anyone drunk around your dc.

And I’d hang out on the MN threads and AlAnon and keep an eye on it.

There is a weird puritanical attitude to alcohol on MN. Personally, I'd agree that drinking every day is not ideal, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me in the absence of other issues. Mostly I'd worry about the health factor.

He is drinking too much for his own health, definitely, but I wonder whether you are looking more at the potential for escalation rather than the current level really being a problem. It seems as if you expected him to make a change and assumed he would see parental responsibility the same way you do. It's quite common for it to take men a lot longer to adapt to the changes of parenting. Suppose I'm not really sure I'm seeing quite as many red flags as others, but it's obviously frustrating for you. Either way, I think you will need to wait for him to come to his own conclusions. My husband isn't a drinker, but he shouts at the kids all the time and honestly I'd rather he was a good natured boozer.

For context though OP, 4 bottles of beer, 1.7 units in a typical bottle is 6.8 units per night, or 47.6 units per week.

The recommendation is to not exceed 14 units per week. He’s literally at 3 times that limit every week.

Please contact Al Anon, they were a lifeline for my friend who was in a similar situation. Once she realised that she couldn't stop him drinking no matter how many chats they had about it or how many times she threatened to leave, the scales fell from her eyes and she accepted he was completely reliant on alcohol.

But that took her time - and it will you. Right now, you're a new mother recovering from birth and all that goes with it. So focus on your baby, and find some support for yourself. You need to learn how to stop enabling him - and that's not easy

I think I'm going to tap out now, as the spectrum of some comments are ranging from LTB (which I made clear from the start wasn't on my radar) to me being controlling, neither of which are proportionate or helpful. Thanks to those who did respond to my request for practical advice. I'll check out Al Anon for further guidance.

Good luck @TheMidnightSociety

Thing is op, those of us giving you our experience and tough love have already walked your shoes, heard the excuses and found the hidden beer bottles when tgey swore blind they hadn’t been drinking. Weve been through the drunk snoring nights and felt the anger and resentment you are about to feel in maybe the next 6-12 months when you find yourself doing everything because theyve cracked a beer and sat on their arse. All you can do is take it on board our advice and come back to mumsnet to rant when you feel the time is right

This thread must have been a tough read for the OP and she's probably not ready to address this yet, it's just a seed that's been planted.

I wish you luck OP and hope that your DH is able to find the strength to address his problem early enough without dragging you down with him.