How bad is divorce?

[ZNC]

I’ve told my husband I want a separation for various reasons. Basically, he’s done so many smallish things that have hurt me over the last 11 years that I feel like I’ve changed the way I see him and I can’t see me ever getting back to that place again with him.

So last night I told him I don’t want this anymore. He still wants to work at it and thinks I’m being unfair for not giving him one more chance and said I have his word (his word means nothing to me). I do feel
quite guilty because he has said I’m leaving him with no choice and I’m breaking up his family and ruining his life without giving him
one more shot to put it right.

Anyway, he’s been divorce before and he said last night ‘this is how divorce works Soph, it’s horrendous, it’s hell, and nobody wins’. And I’ve taken that as him basically telling me that if I leave him he will make my life hell. Does anyone else get that or am I mis interpreting it?

Has anyone had an amicable divorce or does no such thing exist when one person doesn’t want it? Our kids are only 2yo and 8 months old so I don’t want hell for the next 18 years from him but I also don’t want to spend 18 years of my life knowing I’m with a person who doesn’t prioritise me, and makes me feel unseen and unvalued.

Your reasons for wanting to end the marriage are perfectly valid OP and probably reflect why his first marriage failed too.

It is also perfectly normal for him to deny that there's any problem, or talk as though it's easily fixed (but only with a gun to his head; you can guarantee that even if he magically transformed his essential nature, it would soon wear off). That "one more shot" thing was levelled at me constantly, as though he hadn't already had about 900 million shots and paid no attention!

My own divorce did not involve children, so I can't speak for that side of it, but because of DH's refusal to accept my feelings (consistent with his general refusal to notice them throughout our years together!), it wasn't exactly what you'd call amicable. He heaped the guilt and suffering onto my shoulders, and (being used to taking care of HIS feelings over my own) I agonised through the whole process. He kept telling me that I was being terribly unfair and had "gone mad overnight" - and I believed him! In fact, it was the sanest thing I ever did.

We now have a (distant) amicable relationship, so we got there in the end, but as he's no longer in my life it doesn't really matter.

Good luck as he tightens the thumbscrews rather than admit another failure! However awful the divorce might be, it's better than being stuck with the wrong person as you get older. You're also doing the right thing for your children, as it is horrible to grow up seeing your mother being downtrodden (I speak from the child's perspective!) and skews your idea of what marriage looks like (hence my lousy choice of husband #1!).

Divorce isn’t easy. And the ramifications last a long time. I think that’s what he is trying to tell you, rather than the threats you think it is. However, that being said, if you are miserable then it is a long life to be unhappy and divorce allows you to find a new path, but don’t be under any illusions it’s easy. Unfortunately it is not. Your decision though as only you know how unhappy you are and if it is fixable or not. I have been divorced twice and overall am glad I have as my marriages were riddled with issues, but it certainly was not easy, either one.

My first divorce was a living hell snd went on for 5 years until the judge decided he was banned from seeing DS until he was 18 as he was continually trying to alienate DS against me so he then ran off abroad to avoid paying any child support.
I don't regret it. I had to get rid of him.
Second one was very easy, he just walked out, signed everything over to me and I never saw him again.
Be prepared for threats, they all do that. Judges have seen it all, heard it all. They aren't interested. The process will continue regardless.
Maintain your dignity and be very firm. Don't allow him to bully you.
He had his chance and he blew it.
And threats or intimidation should be reported to the police Immediately. Make it clear you mean business.

I don’t know your circumstances but it’s possible your husband is just speaking factually rather than threateningly.

Youre still in the trenches of little children, and all the stress and sleeplessness that involves. I would suggest that you consider getting some sort of couples therapy and see if it helps. Marriages do have ups and downs and it is possible for things to get better even after some major troughs.

when I was going through marriage problems my friend (whose parents divorced when she was tiny) warned me about how difficult life would be going forward if we divorced — financially and also at every family event (school plays, sports matches, graduations, weddings).

Of course that’s not to say that people should never get divorced. Only you know the details of your situation. But I just wanted to give you another perspective.

I had an 'easy' divorce.

Almost the first conversation we had was "Please let's not use lawyers to punish each other."
We both had 'red lines' : just a few outcomes we each really wanted, and we both found the other person's requests reasonable. He wanted to avoid selling house immediately & I wanted to have as smooth a transition as possible for the kids.

fwiw, I don't think OP's H is unreasonable to say he wants to try to fix it.

In our case, I had no good will left to work at it any more and my xH never offered to even try to fix it (!!)

I imagine in OP's situation I would say "We can prevent this from being horrendous if we both actually want that." and "If you want to work at this then you have to be wiling to hear a long list of things I have found painful about being married to you."

And see if he protests or is truly willing to be constructive.

If he can't be receptive to acknowledging what upset OP then that's proof he can't work towards 'fixing' it.

This is how I feel…he’s had 11 years of chances and last time something happened (when I was pregnant) I promised myself that the next time would be the last. And I feel like I need to live and breathe that decision or I’ll be looking back in 20 years wondering why I’ve put up with it. Becoming a mother has totally changed my perspective and things I’ve tolerated and excused in the past are no longer tolerable or excusable. He has promised whole heartedly to change but I’ve also given up, to the point where I really feel like I don’t even care if he does it again, and to me that’s a sign that it is the end.

I’m not expecting it to be easy but I also don’t want him to make it hard than it needs to be. The fact that I’d rather find myself being a single mother of two very small children, and give up the house, the lifestyle, and the lovely holidays etc, to me, that’s a sign that I’m done with him.

Im sorry to hear you went through hell for so long, but the fact you say you don’t regret it means it wasn’t as bad as staying would have been? Was there any point that you thought you might have made a mistake? I feel like a deserve better. He’s broken the respect in our marriage and I’ll never get that back.

I’m at that point. I feel like there is very little in me that wants to work at it. Did you have a slow process of divorce? When you say you didn’t want to sell the house immediately and wanted it to be smooth for the children, did you move out to a rental or anything? Or did you say living together while separated?

I’ve talked him through the things that have hurt me time and time again and he minimises them to be ‘small mistakes’ and says he can’t change the past, and I get that but I’ve lost myself and my self worth and my value in this marriage.

Once i had made the decision, that was it. I never second guessed myself again. And in fact the process was easy and amicable. It is possible, if both parties want it to be.

Its a lot easier these days as its “no fault”. Apply online £600 to get the ball rolling.

Just for context, what are some of these, 'small mistakes'? Because I suspect they aren't small or mistakes.

Youve been together 11 years and now you have two under three ... sure it isn't some form of post natal depression, why did you not feel like this about him 3, 5 7 years ago?

I had a very messy divorce and he is still giving me hassle ten years later. He is very angry and bitter about it. Some people manage to stay amicable apparently.

You can leave a marriage for any reason, or none at all. Your DH is right though, it will be hell. Your kids won't resent you, they are too young to understand and will grow up just accepting the situation. But every loss they suffer from the divorce will be obvious. And it will affect every single facet of their lives and shape who they become as adults.

Also, you won't find any man who is willing to get into serious a relationship with you, your kids are too young and your STBX will be too present in your life for any other man to consider you. Maybe when they are teenagers, but not for the next 15 years or so.

Your lifestyle will change, your finances and autonomy will be restricted. You won't simply be able to move where you like, work where you like. You will have to consider your STBX in every major decision you make. You will be tied to him for the next sixteen years.

Value yourself, because as a divorced mother of two young children, you wont be "seen" by many other people. That's not me being harsh, that's just reality.

Will you be financially dependent on him after the divorce?

It's not up to him to decide if your feelings for wanting a divorce are valid. It doesn't sound like you've made this decision irrationally or out of nowhere.

op your kids are extremely young. While his response seems a bit patronising and was probably irritating, I think you need to think of them, whether they’ll have a happier life with you both separate (which they easily might if you fight a lot or don’t get on or love each other), but also this is just the tiredness and drudgery of young children talking because it might be. I was a different person when the kids were young as was he, we were both exhausted and irrational and our worst possible selves. Everyone is (whether they’ll acknowledge it or not!) if you can hand on heart say everything will be better then it doesn’t matter how easy or difficult it is.

Divorce is wonderful! So much better than being married to someone who is dragging you down. I am so proud of myself that I did. It’s about time we saw it in more positive terms. You have to crack on with your life.

No I never thought I'd made a mistake. I had to leave both of them. Like you I knew it was over 100% and I wasn't going to stay a minute longer.

The ‘small things’ are things that have had a profound impact on me and my self esteem but he’s minimised them to be a ‘few mistakes along the way’.
Basically, inappropriate texts to women, getting caught, promising to not do it again and then doing it again. A relationship that crossed the line with a co-worker, but purely emotional and not physical. And always prioritise what he wants. I had a miscarriage and the next day he went to work (he’s his own boss so could have been off) then went on a night out the next night. I text him when he was out to say I was struggling and felt alone and he didn’t come home or text me back. Maybe these things are forgivable for other people but I’m struggling to move on and see him in a way I used to see him.

No, I don’t think so. I think I’ve been so caught up going through the motions of marriage, kids, etc that I’ve been making excuses and tolerating too much.

Grey rock him. His 'small mistakes' of texting other women (repeatedly) mean that he's killed your love and he can live with the consequences.

FWIW I have never, ever regretted my divorce from a man who sounds quite like your DH. He wasn't abusive - he was just cold, unsupportive and selfish. And I had enough.

25 years down the line neither I (nor my DC) think it was a mistake. They don't bother much with their father, because he didn't bother much with them. Being a single mother is far preferable to staying with someone who doesn't prioritise you or make you feel loved.

Men will never leave unless they have somewhere else to go. So he will push back on it. You are his safety. Don’t wait, it won’t get better. Stick to your plan and don’t be bullied.

Power on. Reclaim your life. Grey rock is essential. Don’t allow yourself to be dragged down a moment longer. Rise like a phoenix. Or find your wings, ready to fly.

I get this, and I have given so much thought to the children, I really have. But I can’t live the next 25 years of my life wondering who my husband is texting every time he picks up his phone and being paranoid when he’s 20 mins late home from work. I couldn’t lean on him when I needed him the most and I’ll never lean on him in my time of need again after that.

I’m not leaving him in the hope of finding someone else, I’m leaving him to be without him.

I know my life will change, ill have less, less time, less money, less freedom, but ill have more room to breathe.

I’ll rely on my part of the equity and his child maintenance payments. But I have a career myself and can be independent.