friend won't let me speak to her son

[mudinthelane]

I am not sure how I am meant to feel about this.

My very good friend, who I have known since school, has an adult son who is now 21. We used to go on holiday with our kids, so I have known him well until the age of about 10. She lives quite a distance from us, but she and I speak each week on zoom, and meet up a few times a year. However, she doesn't seem to want me to speak to her son.
He came to collect something for her from our house as he was passing, and organising that through her was really difficult, as she keep making excuses about why he couldn't/wouldn't want to do it. However, when he did come round, he was quite sweet, and I kicked myself for not encouraging him to stay for a cuppa and cake; I hadn't done it because she was adamant he would only pick the item up and leave.
On a recent weekend away, her son dropped her at the front door with all her bags. It was fortunate I was in, as they were at least an hour earlier than expected; he had gone by the time I had answered the door, even though he had just done a 4 hour drive and of course I would have offered a cuppa/snack etc (in fact, I had offered that he join us for a meal but that had been declined in advance). He also collected her from our house afterwards. She went straight up the loo when we arrived, and he had arrived at the same time. I invited him in; we were sitting in the garden having a chat about our trip and what he was up to. When she came down we were mid-conversation; she walked into the garden and then back into the house without a word or pause, and even her son said, 'Where are you off to, mum?' He followed her and she got him to load the car and they left.
She and I are good friends; she has no family to speak of, and he is an only child. I feel rather like an aunt towards him, as I do with all of my good friend's children. My own kids just muck in (whether they like it or not, they know it is expected of them!!). Can anyone give a different perspective for what is going on? I am a bit hurt, I suppose, and probably behaved like I was rather narked, which I shouldn't have, I know.

Yeah, mums are a bit weird, aren't they? I am sure I am weird about my kids too.

I would assume that he might be honest about something going on that she’s not ready to share publicly (separation, someone in rehab, mental health crisis, estrangement, whatever) or she is naturally quite anxious (worried she’s burdening you or him, guilt of making him her taxi, which to be fair is quite unusual given she’s young).

Maybe she thinks her son is being a nuisance by talking to you. She is your friend and she doesn't think you should have to entertain her son. You obviously don't mind at all, but I can imagine her telling him off for settling down in the garden for a chat and over staying his welcome.

1. He had a crush on you at some point ( teen crush maybe ? )
2. She's hiding something
3. He's made complaints to her about you at some point

It does sound like he's perfectly happy to be polite, or even actually friendly, and his DM is shooing him off in quite an odd fashion!

From what you've said OP, the only thing that jumps out is that she said it was him that wanted to stop the holidays. If that's not true and it was actually her that wanted to stop, it would be completely natural for him to say to you something about how great the holidays were and how much he enjoyed them - and if he knows the real reason he may well think you do too and reference it, and drop her right in it.

Tangled webs, eh? There is something going on; hard to say what. Perhaps it will all come out in the wash. In the meantime, I shall have to just to resign myself to the situation.

Haven’t read all the ideas, but to me this immediately made me think the son has issues. I’ve had to insulate some people in my life from social interactions. One loved one had social anxiety. She seems normal to others but there would be a huge build up before, then I’d have to stay by her and make sure I kept things short with others, then often discover something I’d said/ that I’d left her too long after that upset her. I learned that the fact that she didn’t seem to be suffering through the interaction wasn’t a reason to relax. It was my job to protect and buffer her without revealing that that’s what I was doing. Part of it was also not talking much about her to others, because I’d be quizzed about exactly what and always told it was something that was wrong somehow and made her anxious.

She’s afraid he’ll tell you something that she doesn’t want you to know about her as she hasn’t told you. Or she doesn’t want you to know about some aspect of his life. People often shut down conversation about their kids when they’re struggling with something, to protect their privacy. This may be a similar thing perhaps?

It sounds like he's doing her big favours driving long distances for her. This post reveals he didn't enjoy all the holidaying together etc and his mum knows that, so I expect she is keen not to push him into interactions she knows he didn't want now when he is already doing her favours.
She's your friend, he isn't and doesn't have to be. As long as he isn't rude (and he wasn't when you did meet), then what's the problem?
I'm not really sure why you are making a big thing about it.

Edited to add - I know you say you would push your shy child, and I agree they need to be able to have basic interactions, which he obviously can, but I don't see why that should extend to forcing meals or holidays with people who he hasn't chosen as friends. He's allowed to chose who he wants to socialise with.

My first thought is she has lied to you about something/made up a story about her life and she doesn't want you two to have the chance to get into a conversation in case thats exposed somehow

This sounds the most plausible.

Either she wants to hide something from you (a lie she told about you/him or something she's embarrassed about that she doesn't want you to find out) or..
And here's what I think : you come across as a very nice, outgoing person and she feels very insecure and (sadly) doesn't want your son having a relationship with you because he might compare the two of you to your favour (in his mind). And she wants him all to herself...

I am not sure I said I would push my shy child to be sociable. I think I said encourage, which is a bit different. I am not that mean!
Also, the holiday thing was a bit of an aside; it was over ten years ago when they stopped coming with us. She was a single parent then as she is now. If it had been me, I wouldn't have let a ten year old decide that we weren't holidaying in a way that I enjoyed (she always said she like the holidays), although I would have taken their opinion into account. It was only a week's holiday at the seaside in the UK once a year, nothing too drastic. I am not a single parent, but I would have thought that it was easier to holiday in a group with other children who can entertain themselves at points, than just two people (a not particularly energetic mum and her son).
You are right, he wasn't the problem at all. I am struggling with the mismatch between her narrative about him, and what seemed to be occurring. Another poster said that perhaps he was excruciatingly shy inside and hated it all - is it possible to protect young people from all this at all times? I don't want to be harsh at all, but would doing the hard things in a safe environment good practice for the times when it is with strangers in a more difficult situation?

Its because she has lied to you about something and is worried it will come out if you speak to him.

It is very odd. Like others, the only thing I can think of is that there is more going on that you’re unaware of and she doesn’t him to slip up. Or maybe when he was younger and you used to holiday, he said something about you to her that she never raised with you? He could have since forgotten but she might not have.

This

I think it's important a 10 year old enjoys their holidays too, and he didn't chose your children as friends so it's fair enough for her to consider that actually a whole week being encouraged to play with them isn't that much fun for him and to decide she prefers not to do that, even if she does enjoy spending time with you. I wouldn't want a whole week away with friends of my relatives. I'm not sure what it 'only' being a week in the UK has to do with it - for plenty of people that's their main / only holiday most years, and even if it isn't a week is a long time.

But as you say the holiday is a side point really, I just think he's already doing a huge favour driving 4 hours to take his mum places multiple times, so why shouldn't he do that on his own terms. If he's told his mum he doesn't want to come in for coffee/ meals for whatever reason, then she is right to respect that. I'm not sure what you find so odd in any of it. But I'm clearly in the minority as everyone else is trying to work out what terrible secrets she has!

Also in terms of practicing doing the hard things in a safe environment, he doesn't need to. He was quite capable of speaking to you when you did end up together. He can do small talk.

Yes, he can do small talk - it is a ridiculously good skill to have, to put those who find social situations difficult at ease, to grease the wheels of communication etc. However, it is his mum who says he doesn't like it. I am not asking him to love it as his top past time, but to say hi for a couple of minutes to someone who has known him since he was a baby, who saw him several times a year until he was a teenager, who on a weekly basis asks about how he is, what he is up to, I would have thought was reasonably normal. I had just done a journey of several hundred miles, and didn't want to entertain big time, so lets not over-egg the pudding on that front!
It is fine he didn't want a meal when he initially dropped his mum off, but to find her on the doorstep surrounded by luggage an hour earlier than expected (I had been about to pop out to the shop up the road for a last minute shop so may well have been out when she arrived), and him not in sight, is something I found a bit odd. She looked like Paddington on her suitcase! A cheery wave from the car would have been fine.
I guess we are all different.

Of course he can feel as he chose about the holiday. He did things with us that his mum wouldn't do with him eg swim in the sea, build sandcastles, play beach games, kayaking, coasteering, etc - his mum is not particularly energetic. His holidays after that involved several National Trust properties a week, tea shops, shopping. From the outside, I made assumptions about what a ten year old boy would prefer.
As I said, we are all different.

Yes, he didn't choose our kids as friends. (Another friend's family also joined us on these holidays.) It is a bit like being in a family; you don't choose your siblings. Maybe as an only child it is more difficult to rub along with a mix of people of different ages who you don't choose?

"I don't find it unusual the a middle aged woman's
Son has no interest in speaking to or hanging out with her mates of the same age group."

I do. At that age I wasn't close to any of my mum's friends, but I was to the mothers of some of my friends and would have always been happy to see them and talk to them, the fathers too to a slightly smaller extent as I didn't know them as well.

I'm pretty certain it isn't about shyness. If that was the case, surely when she found him happily chatting to you, she would have been happy and not dragged him away. And just walking away, rather than joining you both and then making excuses, is odd behaviour.

From your descriptions, it sounds as though he is happy to hang around and chat sometimes, but she doesn't want him to.

The only thing I can think of, is there is something that's happened in their lives she doesn't want you to know about, or she's told one of you a lie that she thinks might come out if you speak.

"But a 50 year old to a 21 year old might as well be 100 years old."

Well, no! OP is presumably a similar age to his mother. He may even have grandparents older than that. Do you remember being 21? We didn't consider 50 year olds our friends, but they weren't aliens either were they? We had teachers and lecturers that age and our friends' parents, let alone parents and other relatives.

Exactly. I didn't choose my cousins either and am not close to them. I'd still talk to them if I saw them.