July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Lack of empathy is a very disabling condition. Change often only occurs when you realise the effect of your behaviour on those around you. It’s awful to know that you are a problem (even if you had terrible parents). If you don’t see the impact of you on others then you can’t be of fault and you don’t feel shit about yourself. But feeling shit about yourself sometimes is a force for improvement.

I wonder if empathy is just being evolved out. Being efficient and hiding behind social media people hide the empathy therefore don’t teach it to the next generation. I was always around grandparents houses, they helped raise me. Family seems much more disconnected as a whole now. Face to face we can hide ourselves so much less. Perhaps narcissism is on a rise and normalised now.

I agree immensely with your excellent observation.

Social media and built up cities are breeding grounds for not caring and exacerbating dark triad traits.

Ref cities, I watched Chase Hughes whom I really enjoy. His explanation is that in cities, someone falls and gets hurt, if it looks funny, what do people do now? Get their phones out to record for their likes online and don't help.

I'm suspicious of videos I see of vulnerable animals someone just happened to come across and decide to rescue and film at the same time. Then a hero. No, there are for me occasions here i'm very sure where this is set up.

It's grotesque and I'll be glad I won't have to endure this when it's more hideous in 50 years time.

It is sad. I hide when I’m feeling difficult stuff. It’s not going to be received or empathised so not much point externalising it. I imagine there are many people like this.

Does anyone find it difficult to relax when it’s just peaceful? My brain doesn’t know how to process peace it feels. It wants to think shit that ruins it. I know that I can have peace and I have control over who and what I react to. How do you find joy in peace and for it not to feel weird and like something might happen because I ruin my peaceful moments with thinking.

I am in exceptional pain so it is incredibly difficult. I have to take pain killers round the clock and the pain and pressure build up I have in my head from various vascular issues makes me not in a normal situation of that makes sense.

So I'm always escaping pain, discomfort and thoughts.

When I can, I totally switch off by engaging in things I love. I get goosebumps all over me listening to music I love - alone. Playing my guitar when physically able - alone. Swimming in a lake - alone.
Being with animals - alone.

I am used to constant drama so it's confusing. But it's so different. All the experiences I have had the last few months with NC and very LC have blown my mind. I can't believe what I'm capable of feeling. I can't believe how creative I am. Never ever has so much evolved in such short time. When I'm back around them / the people, I feel like I go back to the empty vessel again.

I find peace in nature, I see beautiful colours that I never seen before, feel extremely lucky to be alive, just walk, feel the breeze on my skin, the birds and animals just getting on with their day. I'm so thankful for everyday, but there are days when I just want to stay in, do nothing, too much overthinking

This is where I find most escape. You really do start seeing things you have missed for years because of being in the toxic soup of other abusive people.

I am now experiencing huge coincidences and weird things lining up which I can't answer. I think that's part of being more detached from people I have to be honest.

I know I shouldn’t say it but my ASD daughter makes me feel like I’m still living in a high conflict environment. Peace is just very hard to find a every day is a struggle.

Do you think narcs perceive a lot of jealousy? BIL has some kind of issue with me and now they have fallen out with wife’s sister over perceived jealousy. I was never jealous of them, irritated in the beginning that I was kept on the outside. This sister is also not jealous, she is being accused of sabotaging which is completely nonsensical as she’s always helped them.

The Narcs in my life think everyone are jealous of them. Every single thing is perceived as a person being jealous. And when we went NC with them that was of course instantly put down to jealousy. Its the arrogance of a Narc and a way for them to soothe their fragile egos, I suppose. That way they don’t have to face the reality that they’ve been cut off because they are an abusive twat.

People who aren't able to be accountable or adult will smear other people who are honest,who may hold them accountable or be seen as an easier target. Saying this person is jealous is simply part of these made up narratives.

It's like ' my ex is so crazy'. Really? Was your ex crazy Mr scary guy? I doubt it.

Ref your daughter. You are a human being dealing with a very stressful situation. With PDA, parents,if they are not PDA, can struggle to ever feel calm. It can be a permanent state of fight or flight. It isn't necessarily all in the control of those kids and it's obviously hard for them - up to a point empathy for that can go if you're utterly destroyed by it.

What's so frustrating is the battle and constant fight would be much less if society has better structures in place for everyone. For example - school. Probably the biggest trigger for many PDA kids who then direct all of their anger and loss of control in the school system at their mum's.

The whole issue with society and especially these narc families. Those that are able are not supportive to those that are less able. They just selfish arseholes who care only about themselves and image. I really couldn’t give a shit. Come take the kids out for the day and let me and my partner have some time for each other. We need to be happy to be able to support these kids and we are stressed and then looked down upon for being naturally so. What a useless family we have.

People just don’t tend to like them but that’s like you say put down to the person being jealous. Personally I just don’t like having conversations with those who name drop, money drop and ego drop. I guess they have to tell themselves this because they are special, too special to not be liked by everyone and everyone be jealous of them instead. I suppose it’s quite an ego boost having things that people are jealous of. But you end up sacrificing relationships as people don’t want to be around that.

Hi, I have been pretty much NC with my parents for about a year at their instigation. I have allowed them to continue to see my young children under supervision of DS. This is on the basis that she has agreed to immediately remove them from any situation where the olds have an angry or aggressive outburst, start name calling, belittling or gaslighting regardless of who that is directed at. I have explained to DS that neither these behaviours nor acceptance of them are in my view healthy and they are not something I want modelled for my children. Today my eldest came home upset because DS visited our parents with my children and her primary school aged child after school. He told me that whilst they were there his grandmother gave his cousin money for getting a good school report. My eldest said he asked if he could have some money too because he also got a good school report and was told no, if he wants money he should ask his mum, i.e. me. I understand DS left around a minute later but she tells me she saw no issue with what happened at the time. My son is upset by the inequity and DS says she can understand that. I am upset by the blateness. I have explained to my child that it is entirely up to his grandparents what they do with their money. But I have said I think that if his grandmother wanted to give money to his cousin for doing well at school but not to him, then it would have perhaps been kinder to do so when he wasn't there. The woman chose to let my son (and his brother, his cousin and his aunt) know he was being treated inequitably, I suspect hoping to upset him and cause discord. A more generous view, and perhaps just as likely, would be that she did not consider how her behaviour was likely to affects others. Just wanted to get it off my chest and hear what others think of this incident?

Are the other family from a golden sibling?

I don't think so. DS is in my view treated badly. But she doesn't see it that way a lot of the time or when she does she is prepared to tolerate it

I think that's a horrible thing to do and you could have said to your dc that was mean of Granny. I think don't send him back if you're not welcome.

At one stage my mother used to say to me 'there's no need for you to enter this house' when I dropped off my eldest (when he was little). I must have been nuts to allow it.

My dc would go inside to be treated and the door was shut in my face. I was a poor, too young, single mum and wanted my dc to have the nice food, clothes and treats that I couldn't afford.

Do your DC have any relationship with your mother now?

Thankfully she's dead 😂🎉

She did improve towards me when she saw how utterly loyal they were / are to me and would say things to her like 'why are you horrible to Mum?' she realised they'd stop liking her if she didn't stop being such a bitch.

I also made my Dad man up for once and tell her I'd cut her out of their lives. I got it reported back to me that she'd say 'oh don't xyz Dog will stop me seeing them!'

@Gudinne I can't quite understand why you still allow your kids to see your parents. You are NC for a reason and don't think for a second that your parents will treat your kids much better. You are setting them up for enmeshment, egg shells and emotional abuse. I think you need to understand this very urgently for your kids sake.

If your sister is being treated badly but hasn't woken up and seen through the dysfunction she's as much of a problem as your parents. She won't have the same level of insight you have, not put in place the same boundaries or see the same situations as problematic. Your kids will become part of this chaos.

If your parents treated you so poorly to the point you went NC they won't be able to build a healthy relationship with your kids either. Remember they haven't changed.

@Gudinne Its sad that your son didn't get money and so isn't being treated the same. I would tell him you understand he must be feeling treated unfairly and that it's understandable. This instead of saying grandma is entitled to spend her money any way she wants. Whilst this is true this isn't at the core of the issue here. You say this when he asks why she bought such an ugly sofa or spends so much money on a car. Not when she made a dig at him because you put some boundary in place (I'm guessing).

It's a bloody cruel thing to do as a grandmother. He's basically been told he's not worthy and just not the same as his cousin. How do you feel as a mother about this on behalf of your son? What does it evoke in you? I don't think I would put my kid through this and wait for the next outrageous thing to happen and for your sister to leave a minute later. You need to avoid this for him altogether.

Thanks Twatalert. My parents chose NC rather than me choosing it. They chose this because I put arrangements in place for them to no longer have unsupervised access to my children and would only spend time with them myself in public places. The reason my children still see my parents is because DSis does school pick ups for them whilst collecting her own child from the same school. It is her routine to call in on our parents on the way home a few times a week. My children say that they still want to see their grandparents with their cousins after school sometimes, so I let them go. They still say this even though for some months my parents would not let DSis enter their house with my children and insisted they spoke at the kerb. Their time with my parents should be limited to about 10 minutes once a week during term time for the coming year and then done with the following year when my nephew goes up to high school and my DSis no longer does pick up. Feels easier to roll with that and then let it end at the natural point rather than make a big thing of it, unless at any time my kids say they don't want to see my parents, in which case they don't need to.

And honestly I am kind of glad that my son recognises the unequal treatment and is upset and thinks my mother is cruel. I am hoping he will say he has had enough of them soon.

@Gudinne what an awful set up. It's probably time for you to unmesh completely and find another way to sort school pick up. With what you now said I think that your mother not giving your son money was definitely a tantrum. They are just grandparents. Not an ex you have to coparent with. It's your job to protect your kids from the dysfunction. They don't get a say in it.

I can't even imagine a scenario in which my parents went NC with me and I'd still be okay with my kids being taken there. Theres no way they are safe there emotionally.