July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I don't know how old he is but he sounds young. It's not his job to say he has enough. You need to do it for him. How could he possibly choose to walk away if not a single adult in this family does. You are waiting for him to do an adult thing. Most adults are guilt ridden when they do this. How could a child possibly do it when it's probably seeking approval and love.

You're right Twatalert, I wish I'd known then what I know now and kept my kids away.

Gudinne - it's an awkward one because I'm sure your dc like being picked up my your sister with their cousins.

Putting them in an after school club rather than being with their cousins will make their life less nice.

What does your sister think of what your mother said to your dc? It honestly was a very spiteful and intentional thing to do.

It sounds like your parents will go nc with your dc once the school run arrangements have changed. For now though don't gaslight your dc just say 'yes, that was very unkind of Granny, it's not you it's her'.

All the updates sound awful. They are not safe grandparents at all. You are all being treated like a bunch of pawns in a ridiculous game. What a weird grandmother. But sometimes it is good for people to see with their own eyes what they are really like. Your kids with your input will now not want a relationship with them.

I woke up feeling a bit sad today. I just don't mourn or miss Mum at all.

Not a scrap, not a jot. I acknowledge that she was very occasionally kind and I think possibly she might have loved me at times.

I don't mourn an imaginary mother because quite frankly the idea of having a mother at all makes me feel physically ill. I'm sorry for those of you who desperately feel the lack.

I'm not sorry for me, I don't care.

I'm sad for her, she is dead and she was a human being and I'm actually really really happy that she's dead. I would imagine killing her as a teenager and discussed it with a friend, we came up with botulism 😂

How sad to spend so long on this earth and just gone, unmourned.

Gudinne

Who does this at all benefit; not your children and not you either. This benefits your sister, her kids and your parents because they are getting what they want i.e nice narcissistic supply without you there!. I suppose you were hoping against hope too and your experiences to the contrary that somehow your parents would behave better this time around. Do not kick the can down the road i.e dragging this out for another year. It is a trap that many adult children of narcissists and other toxic type parents fall into.

If your parents are too batshit or too difficult for YOU to deal with, it's the SAME deal for your children as well. I would not allow this current arrangement with your enmeshed sister at all continue. As well as seeing the inequalities at first hand these people are also not emotionally safe enough to be around your kids.

Dogaredabomb

I would grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. An awful lot of people who lucked out in the parents stakes no doubt feel like you do.

Do I mourn my FIL; no and that is because he was a rubbish example of a human being. He never sought nor wanted to seek the necessary help. He had no friends for good reason; people in the immediate area where they lived would go out of their way to avoid him.

Some of these narcs tho are “loved” by many. I find this hard to navigate. If they were all alone and it was obvious they were bad it would be easier to accept I think because society backs ups your thoughts. But in my case they are surrounded by enablers and it’s hard to stick to the fact that it’s them and not me and I think that adds to this confusion over whether you are right or not to mourn them.

@Gudinne I've had a similar problem, but my mother did it with my children, showing a massive preference for the older one and barely any interest in the younger. It was a very hard thing to accept at first. I honestly just didn't know what to say or to do (TBH that was my reaction to a lot of behaviour that I should have challenged and didn't).As time went on, it got increasingly blatant. It all fell apart when she tried to persuade me to take the eldest out of school so she could take her on holiday and I said why didn't she take the youngest instead, because he wasn't at school and she'd never taken him anywhere (despite having taken the eldest on holiday multiple times, something I was never comfortable with but didn't know how to say no to). She fell about laughing and said 'oh, no, I don't think so.'

I was done. That was the line in the sand for me. The next time she wanted eldest to visit for a weekend, I said no. They go as a pair or not at all. So it was not at all. She moved abroad not long after that. Frequent invites were extended to eldest. 'Send her to us,' in a sweet voice. 'We'll take care of her, she'd really benefit from it.' PMSL. No invite was ever extended to youngest. Not once. I learned something very unpleasant about my mother during that time.

You're not alone. It's a really difficult thing to know how to deal with, although I don't think it's that uncommon, TBH. Definitely acknowledge your son's feelings on this. Going forward, it might be time to rethink how your children have contact with your mother because the current arrangement isn't working, and it's okay to decide that.

We have to be extremely delicate and very deliberate about the voices our little ones internalise. These idiots love to divide. One child ends up feeling superior winding up the other child who isn’t invited, it’s very subtle and then boom two siblings don’t like each other.

@Strawberrypjs that was my fear, that she'd rot the relationship between the two of them. I want them to have a positive relationship with each other and that was far more important to me than any relationship with her. I also didn't want them to look back and ask me why I allowed it to happen, why I didn't intervene. At the heart of it, though, I don't think it was personal to youngest. She didn't dislike him as such, he just wasn't of any interest. What she wanted was a special relationship with the eldest. She certainly wanted eldest to like her more than me, there were flashes of that when eldest was a baby.

Fucking weirdos aren’t they! Get a dog if you want someone to follow up your arse all day!

@Strawberrypjs yes, it was really unpleasant and she made no attempt to hide it. I was really shocked by it at first. I hadn't expected it. Maybe I should have. It didn't work, though. Eldest had her sussed by the age of about 2. Would refuse to sit with her, wouldn't talk to her. Very young children have that same sense as dogs though, don't they, that they just don't like some people and don't know yet that the socially acceptable thing is to hide it.

I don’t know I think that narcs love children because they are very easy manipulated and exploited and will go back for more.

Yes my mother had favourites and no you could never discuss her behaviour with her, my children aged 8 were more adult than she was ! I was never the favourite out of 3 children was very aware of that from a young age, when she did the same to my 2 it was my line in the sand , they noticed it as the favourite was a child who was not even a relative . Eg we would go round she would only have one flavour of crisps as they were this child’s favourite, mine would get told all about great this child was . Never asked what flavour crisps her actual grandchildren liked or asked what they were doing . Now they don’t want to see her, they reap what they sow

When my kids were little and my mother would visit, she would bring one bag of sweets for them 'to share.' One mean little bag. She barely ever saw them or gave them anything, it's not like she was spoiling them, and it wasn't like she couldn't afford it either. I once watched her push youngest out of the way so she could make sure she gave the packet to eldest.

WTF was that about.

Grooming. Deliberately.

Ive just learned about a new feeling…contentment. These parents keep us in this brain situation where we are always trying to reach a potential that they were never going to let us get to or even acknowledge.

I know it's a stupid question, but I keep asking it anyway. Why. Why did she play favourites with them?

Did she not think anyone would notice?
Did she think I would just shrug and accept it
Did she think I would approve
And my stepfather - he must have noticed. Why didn't he step in and say something
(I know the answer is that she didn't really think at all)

It's an abuse behaviour/: tactic. It makes one crave for the attention, be the scapegoat for nutty granny's own weird crap. Favoured ones are groomed into becoming loyal pets and re enforce the nutty abusers feelings of being important.

Tbh, I think there was an odd thing going on where she wanted to play house with my stepfather with my eldest as baby. She didn't have children with him b/c she was too old by then. It's like she was acting out some weird fantasy scenario. I know that sounds nuts.

I was just chewing on the idea that she didn't think I would step in when my brain went because she didn't step in when you got bullied in the home so it probably didn't even occur to her that it's a thing a mother would do

Ouch.

She doesn’t care, she is delusional. They don’t care, don’t see us, don’t love us. If you noticed she wouldn’t have cared. They just keep doing and doing until one day we step away. Then we tell them and guess what….they don’t care!!

I think sometimes we see it as them intentionally trying to hurt us because that’s how it feels. But I don’t think it is. They act out of their own selfish needs. So instead of thinking she is deliberately turning the child against you it’s more likely that she is trying to forge an enmeshed relationship with her because that’s the only way she knows how to get her needs met.

@Strawberrypjs she wanted eldest to like her the most. Not just the most as a grandparent, but more than me. and she also took every opportunity to try and show that she could look after her better than me. I don't think my needs or feelings came into it at all, tbh.

No they don’t. You are simply the mirror for which they reflect whatever bonkers nonsense they believe off. You aren’t a daughter you are someone who they can look better then. If your daughter loves her more then she is better, just affirming her own delusional beliefs. The fact that would hurt you is irrelevant. They don’t have any emotional bonds with us at all.