July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Nobody knows me on here - I've posted on one of these threads a while ago but under a different name. But I needed to tell someone and I know you'll understand.

I just blocked all contact with my mother on every channel, and made all my social media private.

I have been so saddened by every sparse contact with her for the past few years (long story short: she abandoned me as a child to a life with a very inadequate father and just did her thing, whatever it was). I have felt for years that I can't have any more contact with her, it is too much and ultimately meaningless anyway. She doesn't have enough care for me.

Not sure how I feel, yet. But I've done it.

There's, like, 8 billion or whatever people on this planet. They're not all going to like each other, it's natural.

You're not bad for disliking someone even if it's "for no reason" eg you just have nothing in common.

You're only bad if you treat them like shit because you don't like them and have decided they therefore have no value and don't matter.

Not being able to be yourself around someone depends on the situation. Do I "bring my whole self" to work? Heck no! I'd be fired 🤣 so it's ok if I can't truly be myself around my boss. That's not the same thing as feeling scared by them though.

If I can't truly be myself around a friend it's either a very new friendship where we don't properly know each other yet or it's because there's some level of toxicity within them that has me holding back.

You don't have to think the same way as friends or agree with everything they say, but if you can't "agree to disagree" then you're incompatible. If they can't respect your opinion, even if they disagree with it, then they're rude (or vice versa if it's you). You should be able to be yourself around a friend.

Calling people oversensitive, changing the subject or laughing things off - IMO it all depends on the circumstances.

Friend 1: pleasant, polite, usually talks about her family and her holidays with friends. She comes to me complaining about something or sharing she feels awful, you bet I'm listening and providing a shoulder to cry on.

Friend 2: negative thinker, has a tendency to be self absorbed and a little selfish, everything remotely negative that happens is The End Of The World. They come to me complaining or sharing they feel awful, ill listen for upto about a minute or two to check it's not something, after that you bet I'll be changing the subject, making a joke about the daftness of the situation or pointing out there's another way to view those events. Then telling them in the nicest possible way to buck up - because I'm not their unpaid agony aunt at the end of the day. If they keep bringing conversation back to their nonsense (and it is nonsense), or if it's the same genuinely awful situation they want to talk about over and over with never any attempts to fix it, I'll bluntly tell them to pack it in because I'm not an empty vessel for them to trauma dump into every time we meet. It's rude of them and if someone is rude to me they'll receive it right back.

I've had to develop this way of being because for some reason I attract people who are looking for someone to lean on. Before, when I wasn't this way, I'd spend all my time reassuring, listening to and cheering up sad sacks, then finding myself with no time or emotional energy for having any fun with my more easy-going friends. I find some people are emotional vampires and will suck you dry if you let them.

@SamAndAnnie I’m the only one who doesn’t like the golden members of this family. When I say don’t like, I don’t idolise, don’t want to be like, don’t hold up. It must be because I’ve come to the family via somewhere so different. It’s hard to not feel like you are the wrong one. I am so so different, I couldn’t be anymore so. It is hard being the black sheep. Although I can’t be anything but.

Do you have people in your life who you feel love and support you and are not connected to your mum? That will be helpful to support you as you adjust to the decision to cut off.

It's so complicated and painful all this stuff.

I’m sorry your mum let you down.

You didn't give yourself the black sheep role strawberry so you can't take it away from yourself. You can refuse to accept it and escape though.

You're not bad for not liking tossers! Nobody likes tossers. Except other tossers. And nice people who haven't yet discovered they're tossers. There's nothing wrong with you for being appalled at dysfunction and having a strong desire to be anywhere other than around such people. That's a healthy response.

No I haven’t given myself this role title but I keep living up to it many times over. I suppose it’s a good thing to be aware. Once you become aware through experience then learning up it’s inevitable I guess that you’ll come across many toxic people. People who you once would have looked up to. Reputation is powerful. People hiding their purpose behind their actions. Insecurity which was once me, which I thought was something sad and weak can actually be nasty. I would never have thought insecure people would be so dangerous.

Those high in traits of narcissism ( like your partner's family) are deemed to be incredibly insecure. So insecure that they can't accept their faults and flaws and self reflect. It must be avoided at all costs and someone else must always be projected upon and blamed.

Yes, none of them can look you in the eye when they talk. I suppose the eyes are the window to the sole. I feel very uncomfortable. I’ve read it’s a sign of insecurity. I know some where along the line my MIL has been incredibly insecure and has developed this behaviour. She seeks constant special affirming behaviour. The other day I try and have a polite conversation about our holiday and she spins it around hounding her son to say that all his childhood holidays were just so special. She went on and on highjacking what we were trying to tell her. I just gave up. Yeah you are amazing, your son’s holidays as a child were amazing….but we are trying to tell you about our amazing holiday with your grandchildren….. this happens on all conversations. You say you find something difficult she uses this a way to imput that when she was in this position she didn’t and she handled it …..guess what….amazing! It’s boring.

Thanks, yes I do have a lovely family and especially a dh who knows all the lengthy history and he's just relieved for me (for us, I suppose). I have friends who know some of it and who also deal with family estrangements.

I knew this was coming. I have to keep reminding myself of the things she's said and (not) done, though. I guess this will wane.

Anyway I'm sorry to be dumping this like I'm entitled to just do that. I wasn't really thinking yesterday. Thanks for reading.

Thanks. She's unbelievable, really. I'm sorry too for everyone who has parents who are not parents. x

Please never apologise.

That apology is part of your conditioning. Why apologise for expressing a decision borne out of a lifetime of I imagine cruel and crazy making behaviour you've endured. All you've done is explain this.

There is nothing you should be apologizing for. We all put a lot on this thread regard our experience.

Have you read my posts 🤷😆 it's like my diary on here.

I find NC hard Vreeland. Something about it just feels wrong. Suppose because it isn't really what I want, what I want is for family to not be horrible people, but I can't have that, so not being around the nastiness is the next best thing. There's a sort of low level fear too, because I know it's not what they want either. They want me to be around to do their bidding when it suits them. NC brings peace because it ends the cycle of abuse but it's not something anyone looks forward to doing. It feels like something necessary, like going to the dentist with a toothache and not something to celebrate - it fixes the problem but you don't exactly enjoy it. I guess that's it - it alters our lives a lot but it's a self-preservation choice, something we do to take care of our health, not a lifestyle choice.

And we are not bad for having to adapt to this in this way. It is something I struggle with feeling. Who wants to avoid their family, it’s supposed to be your life force, the reason we are alive on earth. It’s bound to feel odd and awful…..but unfortunately necessary.

Hi, I’m new to this thread but have lurked for a while. I have teared up and some of your stories and am so grateful to you for sharing them so openly. I want to apologise and say mine is not as bad but I’ve read the opening post so will refrain 😂

I’d love to know people’s thoughts on my situation. We have a long and complicated history, but will try to keep it as short as I can.

It was just my mum, younger sibling and I growing up. Father was a nightmare, bouncing in and out of our lives and emotionally abusive. I was bullied growing up, experienced a lot of death, as well as sexual abuse in the care of a childminder. Home also didn’t feel safe as younger sibling was prone to long, loud, violent meltdowns, so lived on egg shells. I acknowledge that they are clearly traumatised too.

When sibling was in a good mood, things were great and I do have some brilliant, fun memories interspersed with all the crap. I think that’s what makes this so hard.

I adored my mum and considered her my best friend, until I was finally treated for cPTSD two years ago. The therapist helped me realise that I wasn’t protected as a child and my needs were not met, hence depression, anxiety and very low self esteem since childhood. I can see now that she buried her head whenever things got tough - for example, leaving me with the childminder even after I had disclosed the abuse.

I think because she is so kind and caring on the surface, coupled with the fact that she was a single parent to an incredibly difficult child (plus me, the ‘good girl’) and working fulltime, I couldn’t blame her for any of it. She did her best.
I could forgive and get past all of this, if it wasn’t the way she is behaving now, since my therapy.

My sibling is still in complete control of my mum. She sees them as a victim and enables their complete dependence on her. Sibling has always taken up all the space and I was often neglected in favour of them, simply because they shout louder.
Sibling (now mid-thirties) has made several incredibly stupid decisions in the past year, drawing my mum even further in and has form for trampling all over people, especially me.

After starting therapy, I started setting boundaries with sibling and it did not go well. Sibling went nuclear and we ended up having a back and forth in which I was able to tell her - diplomatically - how her behaviour affected me. It was both horrendous and cathartic to finally have a voice. Sibling then threatened suicide and I cut contact. We have not spoken in almost a year and, honestly, it is such a relief.

Mother initially took sibling’s side and was angry at me. She then said she respected my decision and wanted to talk. Except she doesn’t. Every time the subject goes deeper than surface level, she freezes up, like she’s expecting me to set off another bomb. We’ve gone from messaging most days to once a fortnight and I may get a one sentence reply if I’m lucky. When I acknowledged the lack of contact, she told me she was ‘giving me space’. Right…

We’ve met up four or five times and she talks incessantly about my sibling, swinging from lamenting how hard their life is, to bitching about their behaviour. I’ve told her that she is not helping sibling and I no longer want to hear about it and she gets defensive and then sulks.

It feels like having my kind, caring, lovely mum was only dependent on me toeing the line. I’ve tried to explain my point of view and it’s like she can’t hear me. I’ve just read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson and had lightbulbs going off all over the place.

I feel like I’ve been rejected, I feel about 10 years old again. I know I need to come to terms with the fact the relationship was never what I thought it was, but right now I’m so sad, it feels like grief.

My therapist has said she thinks the only way to have a relationship with her is to disengage. It has to be surface level, not getting pulled into the drama, accepting that this is what it is and she will not ever be the mother I need or want. But that seems impossible. The thought of cutting her off is devastating, but feels easier than the grief, rage and sadness that currently gets brought up every time I see her.

Thanks if you’ve got this far, just writing it out has helped. I wondered if anyone else identified or had any advice.

I’m sorry to hear this @ProcessingStuff . Your DM clearly can’t support the work you are doing on yourself and that’s unfortunate.

Single parents tend to get forgiven a
lot because it’s such a hard job but at some point you need be able to have a voice. Your DM has made some horrendous mistakes (allowing abuse!!) and undoubtedly this was because she was barely coping but that’s not ok. I think the approach you are taking is the right one - distance from sibling and low contact with DM. There is little else you can do right now

@ProcessingStuff so much of this is identical to my situation. Yet, I see some callous behaviour and cruelty now. Before, I'd say she couldn't help this and that and was nice. No. There's the capacity there to be really nice, to be helpful, to do so much. But one must follow the party line, e.g stsyvin the original role you were assigned.

I have been NC over 18 months with an older sibling who was nothing ever but abusive, manipulative, an absolute dick if I ever interacted. My child was getting dragged in and used against me in very insidious ways. Or this was the attempt; grooming. I finally saw how 🫥 this was and said no more ever again from you at least. And I have not changed my mind since then. I won't. It's one less problem.

My mum too cannot accept or cope with this and behaviour has been unacceptable in response. My sibling manipulates her yet was subject to her growing up so it's all dysfunctional.

Going low contact and establishing boundaries clearly on your mind will help alot. What will you accept, What's not ok. What type of chat will you engage in. How will you demonstrated what you aren't ok with. Etc etc.

No matter what we do there's real sadness here.

Someone else here rightly said that we don't want to do this. We have no great choices. We want a family that doesn't actively hurt us or want to hurt us. We want no abuse. That's all we want. And cutting the contact is our only option to stop the behaviour. The behaviour which is worse eventually than losing them.

Do you think narcs purposefully create jealousy in people? I know we control our own emotions but mine seem to thrive off of people being jealous. Or they think that people are jealous and they get hits out of it. They talk about it a lot and smile and connect over it. It feels like a goal and it makes them feel powerful. Even against their own family.

Yes. They feed off other people. They are unable to find joy intrinsically.

I notice the ones I know have no substance and depth or something very intrinsic about them. I can't explain it. I notice they observe, they mimic or mock or anything that's about something of no intrinsic substance is latched onto.

I believe all of us here have special things or attributes even if some haven't yet discovered them yet. They're there.

This sounds arrogant but I recently learnt how I have something there that allows me to tap into things that are intrinsic in me.The people I know, all of them higher up this dark scale don't have this. It's all this external thing that's false and reliant on others to validate I don't quite yet know how to articulate this but maybe I will eventually.

I believe people can be very jealous of this in us. So they want to try improve how they are themselve by creating jealousy.

Everyone can feel jealousy or have moments where others' envy validated them. I don't want that any more luckily. Because the things people envy I really don't. People also don't want or envy the material outer things I have. They prob feel pity annoyingly.

E.g friend upset wanting a partner. She would envy another finding love. Totally human and normal. I would not envy, I think thank jesus I enjoy this singledom and don't crave that anymore.

When I've been on my knees in hospital and saw loving families visit, show love and care and help out, I did envy that. I probably always will that part.

We had to visit today because of a birthday and I really didn’t want to but I did but it gave me a migraine after. (When I had to I thought I should) I sat there whilst they talked about what they have and how so and so is clearly jealous and they salivating. It’s a fucking sickness.

Being very insecure myself as a young women I have always come to have empathy for insecure people. I’ve really felt for them and the pain. I never realised just how dangerous insecure people can be. It’s not the loud secure people you need to fear like I always thought.

@Playtoo thank you for replying. I had a friend do the whole, 'ohh but it's your mum' thing yesterday and it's started a whole cycle of doubt again that maybe I should just submit. But I won't. Thank you.

@JoyDivision79 wow yes, very similar. So sorry you have been through it too. I really appreciate your advice and kindness.

Someone else here rightly said that we don't want to do this. We have no great choices. We want a family that doesn't actively hurt us or want to hurt us. We want no abuse. That's all we want. And cutting the contact is our only option to stop the behaviour. The behaviour which is worse eventually than losing them.

This hit me right in the gut, so sad and so true. I will be saving this to remind me when the guilt hits yet again. Thank you.

I'm sorry @Strawberrypjs, that sounds awful. I hope the migraine has passed and you're doing something nice for yourself now.

Not really I’m trying to sleep it off. I just, like everyone else not want any of this. I don’t want to have to navigate it constantly. All the choices are shit.

@ProcessingStuff I follow various famous people online for guidance. The best advice I have ever absorbed recently is - 'choose guilt over resentment every single time'. Learn to say no and watch your life improve basically. Saying no thanks family member/s is part of that. And if they don't actively listen you physically show them no 👋.

I've gone back and been bitten still but feel so much better with one on permanent long term No Contact and others very LC at moment. ( I have a few of them).

People won't like it or you for doing the above. But you will start to feel that you are more amazing with each passing week at the same time as feeling a bit guilty, a bit unsure if it's right. One week at a time is all you need do.