July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Trying to make you be a certain way or have the opinion they want you to have?

Could be many things. Their behaviour makes me feel a certain way, but that's not why they are controlling. They will be trying to control to manage their own baggage and feelings. Perhaps they are controlling to avoid having to feel a certain way. Fuck knows.

To top it all off I became friendly with a lady at work who's exactly the same. She dumps on me and I ws advised by my therapist that she shows narcissistic ways of relating to others. This was initially a 'stretch target' for me where I tried to make new connections and it went horribly wrong. I have to keep her at a distance now and she can sense it and so we are now dancing the anxious-avoident attachment dance. Tbh she strikes me as the 'most dangerous', almost covert like. The others arent narcissitic. They just have giant blind spots they aren't able or willing to address right now.

Well, at least I'm getting a lot of practice in keeping those people away even though I have no idea how to approach the normal ones yet. I recognise them. I know a couple, but I am way too sheepish to ever make a move.

I didn’t assume anything you said you found it hard to end the friendships due to abandonment issues etc. I was simply pointing out that abandonment issues depend on needing people in the first place.

We have to let ourselves go a little to make friendships. I think people can sense when we are holding back, or controlling ourselves. We also don’t want to go around analysing everyone we meet trying to figure out if they are going to hurt us or not. I don’t think you can have friendships without emotional vulnerability either. Not everyone in the world is going to hurt us. Every relationship doesn’t have to be analysed and worked out because they won’t even make a start with this mindset.

You know what, I don't think that is 'going horribly wrong.' I think it's a success - you reached out, which takes courage, you identified that this wasn't going to be a good fit for you, which is positive, and you stepped back before you got pulled in too far, and you've kept it civil at work. That's pretty good IMO.

Perhaps I can clarify, it might help. You advised I try and do things on my own and see how it feels, which very much implies an assumption this would be new to me and it's not something I currently do. Now it got lumped in a bit with abandonment issues. No idea if that's something I have. I have cptsd and abandonment wounds and my nervous system would recall old feelings from childhood very intensly. Maybe it's different. It's not clinging onto people for dear life or not being able to let go.

I sometimes think narcs are like fast food. They're easy access, it all moves so quick and it's really satisfying until one day you wake up and realise that pain you've been ignoring is heart disease and there's a ton of work ahead of you to undo it.

We never give ourselves enough credit!

I can’t see the connection then. You said you can’t drop your friends even though you know they aren’t good for you, you have abandonment issues and you don’t want to make new friends necessarily. That you are worried about being alone.

I was just saying embracing being alone, learning to care and love your own self and begin to trust you can be happy without these people, this is a really healthy step forward. Of course you do some things alone. I just wondered if you are better off being alone than with people that make you feel uncomfortable..

Oh dear. I literally had the realisation these past two days. Of course it is going to be emotional and it is a process. Of course it is daunting to be totally alone. No friends. No family. I quite dislike that I now feel it's not normal to not breeze through this and that I am apparently finding it difficult because I must have abandonment issues. Bloody hell.

You said you had abandonment issues - I didn’t. I don’t know you. I would be cautious about dropping everyone and being totally alone is my thoughts. Take your time. Anyone would find being totally alone extremely hard if they are used having friends and family.

I can't find where I said that. Perhaps you read that into something I said.

You said you had CPTSD and abandonment issues and issues with your central nervous system.

^ This is where you spoke of your abandonment issues and not being okay alone.

I think we might understand abandonment issues differently. I experienced abandonment on all levels, but I am actually avoidant as a result so if I can avoid someone I absolutely will, I just need to figure it out. It's also an attachment issue, but you can't abandon me because I won't even go there. That's why the struggle to make new connections.

I understand abandonment issues as someone doing everything so they won't be left and not being able to leave unhealthy relationships. It's usually all sorts of people pleasing.

Alright, I think I see where you are coming from.

Honestly it's offensive, but maybe I am not having a good day. Of course I want connection, of course I don't want to be alone. I think it's a stretch to make it an issue that it will be very difficult to have lost all family and friends. It's a bloody tragedy and I actually refuse to have this labelled as abandonment issue like it is some every day situation I just happen to bring my old baggage into. It's a traumtic event in itself. That's the issue. The issue isn't that I don't breeze through it because of 'abandonment issues'.

You can’t make friends if you go into relationships with the mindset that everyone is a potential enemy that is going to hurt you. I think that is where the fear of abandonment erodes the ability to connect. It’s protection before connection and it’s so sensitive. Good people have off days and if you cut the rope on all relationships because of someone’s bad day that will be everyone.

I met a man not long ago, just a friend of a friend. In conversation he got angry constantly. He wanted clarity about on everything in the conversation. He thought he was being poked and prodded and he was triggered. It was a very difficult conversation because he took offense to everything. He did have ptsd so he said but his sensitivity was through the roof. He couldn’t make friends because he perceived rejection and offence where there wasn’t in all words. It was hard for him because you can see he wants friends but he thought he was being attacked in all conversations, he was actively looking for it where it wasn’t. For everyone to confirm what he thought about himself. And when triggered he was nasty.

Other people can’t be responsible for this.

That resonates with me, I was enmeshed/parentfied, made to believe that my mother had/was having such an awful life that I must emotionally soothe her as a child, be her pa, take her on holiday etc etc as an adult. I've said this before on here but, despite me being a mistake, she still said to me at a very young age "I would kill myself if it wasn't for you".

But I got really angry at something she said a few years ago and bit back, and since then well she's dropped me like a stone, well that may not be right but since I am not doing the running and the contacting (I still do but nowhere near as much) she never gets in touch, just not interested. It is odd when a lot of people on here describe love bombing when they try and pull away as mine is the complete opposite. I sent her a message on Tuesday just checking she is ok as it has been warm , A facebook message. she must have been on facebook about 8 time since I did that but she hasn't bothered to reply. Once of a day I'd have been torn up with guilt thinking of her being at home sad and no one to talk to but that's a story I made up. How did I waste so much of my life fawning , thinking i had to make her happy. It's bizarre now I think of it.

I don't get love bombing either Torro, I just get a bit of hoovering now and then. Very obvious carrots dangled at me as if they can buy my affection. I've been dropped too because I won't play their game. I'm basically NC but I don't think they've even realised yet!

I started to keep my privacy and to pull them up on rudeness, leaving if behaviour was inappropriate and unacceptable. Was still happy to chat about all non-private things, keep my opinions to myself when it differed from theirs, tolerate bitching etc. But in the end it was impossible because in return for me keeping my privacy, all information whatsoever was withheld from me. As an attempt at punishment or because there was simply no interest in talking to me if I wouldn't provide gossip fodder, IDK which.

All those ordinary things people talk about, hobbies, holidays, home stuff etc. suddenly all withdrawn. So "conversation" reduced to me sharing ordinary things and them sharing nothing in return, just constantly trying to manipulate me into disclosing private information and attempts to draw me into nasty negative gossip about other family members. I felt like every "conversation" was just me fending off their rudeness and defending my boundaries whilst they tried to overstep endlessly.

I stopped reaching out because I was pissed off by every meeting and attempt to connect. In the space not dealing with them opened up in my life to think, I slowly realised the reaching out had only ever gone one way - me to them. Except the occasional invite to something like Christmas Day, which was less of an invitation and more of an expectation - was also a bit of an ordeal.

Then there'd be victim playing, in a passive aggressive way, about how lonely they are but it doesn't matter because they're so independent. No need for loneliness! I was offering the hand of friendship, but it was being rejected just because I wanted privacy like any normal person would.

Dear god, I honestly don't know why I'm here again.

I have been exceptionally LC with sociopathic mother. I've had struggles with incredibly noisy neighbours who have added to the relentless despair I've felt with my health and pain isolating me indoors way beyond normal people.

I ended up confronting and having a very uncomfortable fall out with neighbour after I made it clear they needed to stop blocking communal access to me for their twat dog that barks non stop. So neighbour and I are right on top of each other. I live alone here. There's constantly people there. I'm not going out my way to be difficult or antagonise because all I want is peace and them to shut it and not block my access ffs.

I have seen my mother today. I took the dog out ( who I love and who is making this hard because he's their dog). He is such huge escape for me and I adore him. We go out together. But it's brought me into contact with that thing. Had a few hours round there today. I don't engage usually any more. All we did was moan about all the neighbours. They are feral and irritating. It's two social housing property and the stereotypes are sadly often true. Mine is one of them - loud and irritating to my mother a door up.

Mum drops in how the neighbour i have had the issue with has been round her house. She invited her in. In the midst of this issue, I'm here alone and my mum has my neighbour in her house and befriending her at this moment in time having had her live here a year now. At this moment, a 4 week period where we've come to blows ( neighbour and I) that bitch has invited her round and is telling me all this gossip in shite. So the neighbours a cheeky shit stirrings bitch and my own mother - no words.

Now someone please tell me what planet I am actually living on.

So I've been pushing forward so much through significant hell on earth with my body. I don't sleep more than 3 hours or function anymore. And I actually felt ok mentally despite it all. Getting out more and being alone in the woods.

Now after this all clicked. It took a while for me to realise how appalling this was because I've been conditioned to accept anything. I came home and thought, you did that at this moment simply to be a nasty human being.

I've told her her behaviour is utterly appalling and beyond weird for a mother. I can no longer not tell her how appalling she is.

I don't actually want to move. I live in such a beautiful location but it's destroyed by the fact it's a maisonette with the noisiest ficks below me, the girls a gossip and my mum has shown clearly there's no support for me here. I feel every space is invaded with their relentless noise, knowing she's been round my own mother's who has demonstrated such disloyalty and god knows what my mum has said. A huge privacy violation. I feel enraged beyond any words imaginable - again.

I have never felt so vulnerable. I drove off screaming with such rage again this evening over this. I virtually live in the local forest. I would rather walk there alone at night to escape.thr madness.

I wonder if I would feel better moving and going full complete NC and it's over. I'm angry I have to try move. I feel so weak and sick all the time it's hell. I love the beauty where I live. It's to die for with this location but how on earth can I mentally survive this shit.

She is pure hideousness that I believe will always want to cause hurt and I want to try escape that whilst I physically can.

I'm devastated and humiliated all over again.

One evening, my disgusting brother was standing over me screaming threatening to punch me because i asked him to stop shouting at the football.

He text my ex that same evening. My ex!!! Why? Saying something like how I was having a go at him. Wtf. He's in his 50s.

He text me ex another time to say I was planning to do something regards my son. It was relevant and private and I hadn't had chance to speak to him. He also said how evil I was.

I'd just come out of hospital after fighting for 6 months with sepsis.

I could scream scream scream over these people.

I want this to stop. I am desperate for peace and for these final months / years whatever I've got of any functioning independence to be free of this hell of such vile people. I could seriously line up my mum, brother and neighbour and do a car jump stunt right now that goes wrong and accidentally lands on them all.

@JoyDivision79 that is disgusting behaviour from your mother but, sadly, I can’t say I’m shocked. These types of mothers wouldn’t understand loyalty if it came up and slapped them on the face, my own mother was the most disloyal person you could meet. The only positive to this was she was disloyal to everyone although most didn’t even know it. Going NC isn’t easy but I would consider it in your case, the mental freedom and peace will be worth it. Being around people who erode your self worth and operate from madness is torture, NC is very painful too but less so than being in contact. I’m sorry you have such awful neighbours to deal with, I can’t offer much advice because I understand you love where you live. Hopefully they will move on at some point. I remember your previous posts and it seems you’re doing all you can to deal with them. Dealing with your mother and the awful neighbours is too much, maybe a long break from dealing with your mother will give the headspace you need to live alongside your neighbours.

I feel she's getting worse and more callous which is actually shocking me. Yet, how much more must I be shocked with the catalogue of behaviours that is so horrific. There's so much yet I went back again. Because I've changed, and I really have - she has become horrific. In the past I would have pacified or probably deluded myself and believed the lies. I accepted anything, excused everything and fawned.

The way the neighbour scenario was presented was so so manipulative - as if she accidentally fell into their house. It took an hour for me to fully process and realise how wrong that all was once home.

I don't want to move yet I think - sometimes things become so awful you're forced into something. It forces you as if it's meant to happen. This feels like that. Things are piling up so much it feels like it's forcing me to go for a reason.

My nutter mother is so close in proximity, it's horrible. And the tag team neighbour thing is just suffocation and humiliation to me.

The loyalty thing is hilarious. Everyone is thrown under the bus by her. But most people don't realise what she is. Absolute bitch dressed up very well as something else. You are so right there. It's just agony when it's your own mother. It's also something I find humiliating with this neighbour debacle.

When I had the issue with the neighbour ( who I actually don't dislike. She's immature and doesn't understand boundaries and they're absent of self awareness. They're irritated and loud but I see she has alot of her own struggles so I have compassion for that part) They have a huge family in droves.tho - I think I hrt envious of that tbh. And I can resent people when they have all that support and mine is trying to jump on the bandwagon to ruin me.

I feel humiliated that I'm alone and it's embarrassing when there's issues like this neighbour thing.

It's all humiliating. A mum like that, a brother like that. My own teenager tells me everyone thinks I'm this problem, my ex and his wife think so etc etc, he says I'm a Karen and shouted you're a Karen during an Autistic meltdown in the week in am having this neighbour issue. So they hear that too for god's sake. Then he punches the doors over other things this same week. They hear that too. I don't like this Karen term, yet, I'm not a bloody Karen. I'm dealing with arsehole behaviours and try kindly to establish boundaries FFS.

My ex has also piled in at times with texts that are absolutely unacceptable. So again , the humiliation in my own brother throwing me under the bus with my ex. It's absolutely humiliating.

I kindly blocked my ex. I explained it wasn't appropriate and we will now Comms email only. I was very matter of fact and no argument.

So I sit here and you feel insane with all these people surrounding you like this.

Would you believe that I know fully that I'm not the problem. I now know with clarity I'm not the problem. These people behave appallingly and as my health has declined they've all used me as a target. It's only my counsellor who has helped me see this. I'd probably be dead through insanity tbh if it wasn't her helping me make sense of the people I'm surrounded by.

I have never felt more peace in my life than lying alone for hours and hours in the forest. This is what this situation has brought about. I walked there tonight in pitch black and wasn't really afraid. Because I am so frightened by seeing how awful people in my sphere are. Now I SEE them, they're scary to me, not desolate woods.

I'm raging and I'm devastated that I'm physically impaired and feel weak and vulnerable. These arseholes would not dare if I wasn't.

Ref me not being the problem - I see that I play a role. That is not kicking every one of them into touch with NC. It's a process that is a huge shock. I'm only this last two years fully seeing and accepting the horror of people in my life. My brother has been easier to NC. My nephews have gone because I had no choice with him being their dad. I then have to cut Comms with the ex being an arse.and I communicate only with my son regarding arrangements now and not the ex ( good advice from Sam and Annie there thankyou).

I now see I have got to make removal of my mum permanent. So she's gone and I'll have to say bye to the dog who I love so much. He loves being with me and I see how much he loves me too. I'm devastated because I know he'll miss me. We have a great connection. He must know they're total bell ends bless him.

My own son is becoming another problem and I've now resorted to clear boundary and explained to him that a taxi will be called after a warning and you're gone.

You'd have to spend a week in my life to realise I am not cruel or nasty even though I just said that about my own child. He's like them in this behaviour. They're all more alien to me with each passing month.

Thanks for the space to rant and rant here 🙏🤯😆❤️ ( back in 10 year old me mode this evening)

Why do they do this, what do they get out of this. I’ve had occasions in the past where you’d expect loyalty but instead they go for the opposite, a weird opposite that really throws you off. Is it because they hate you and they just can’t side with you? Why befriend someone you don’t like?