Where do they get the audacity!?

[Zucker]

There's a group of threads on here recently and my God the audacity of these men treating their partners like this. What's going on? I know we only read on here the awful men and people tend not to post when times are good but I can't get over the general lack of respect.

1.Husband wanted a break, slept with coworker, now wants to fix things...

2.Holiday ruined, husband ill and being a bit of a prat

3.DH Affair. How do I cope with family holiday?

4.Husband left at New Years and just turned up like nothing happened

5.Not invited to my boyfriends surprise birthday party

I think that’s my point- you don’t need an incentive to be nice… because women are socialised to be nice, not selfish.

men are socialised differently.

again this is absolutely not about berating individual women, or holding them responsible for their individual partners behaviour. It’s about patterns.

if you don’t agree that it is socialisation that is responsible for the much larger amount of shit male behaviour then what do you think is responsible for? Which is the ops question really….

as @GreyCarpet said women expect men to rise above their socialisation but don’t expect that women should do the same…

I read these posts out of curiosity mainly, but I honestly agree when people say “leave the b” in many situations.

I’d fully expect my wife to leave me kick me out if I behaved the way some of you have been treated on here, and the same in reverse.

I think it’s down to mutual respect for each other, and sadly too many men still have chauvinistic values and don’t care for others around them.

I have a friend who is upset when his wife hasn’t made dinner for when he walks through the door (she works too), we actually avoid seeing them, but she just accepts it.

But why is it getting worse? There’s a woman at work who freely admits that her ‘partner’ does nothing. No cleaning, no cooking, no shopping nothing. They are not married and they have no children. They both work the same amount of hours, if anything she picks up more overtime.
I just don’t get it. My mum wouldn’t have put up with it. My parents were married in 1958.

Wish44

I also think a lot of people don't recognise it as socialisation.

A lot of people regard it as natural law; inevitable; just the way things are.

Which is why you get women who say their relationships aren't like that being accused of lying to others and themselves by other women. Because they really don't understand that not everyone's life looks like being treated like a skivvy by an unfaithful, angry man who retreats into his 'man cave' (physically or metaphorically).

Also you are right the individual men wouldn’t change with incentive…. Because they are already socialised to be selfish and because women are socialised to be kind another woman will just pick him up and take him in when another woman rejects him.

men need to be socialised to be less selfish, women need to be more selfish and hopefully equality is in the middle…

your example of yourself getting it right by being picky also feels like you are blaming the individual ones who get it wrong btw.

your example of yourself getting it right by being picky also feels like you are blaming the individual ones who get it wrong btw.

I cant speak for that poster obviously but I don't feel it is blaming the individual ones who got it wrong.

If we don't talk about the alternative as a possibility, if we don't tell women they have agency in this matter, if we don't tell them it doesn't have to be like that and if we don't give women permission to be 'picky', how will some women know?

We have no control over how other people behave - male or female. We can't control our individual male boss's attitudes in the workplace; we can't control the attitudes of men in the street; and we can't control the attitudes of the men we invite into our lives. We are not responsible for any of that as individuals.

But we can control who we allow into our lives and our beds and our families. We can control the choices we make in the first place.

And that's where addressing this starts.

A friend of mine is currently "talking to" a man she matched with. They were both watching the same TV game show and discussing it when he started disparaging the looks of a female contestant calling her sexist names. She called him out on it and he just laughed. I told her he was a misogynist and showing her who he was and she shouldn't waste her breath on telling him how to behave.

Another occasion he and his brother went out and a couple they knew were in the same bar, and he was telling my friend he saw Andy and Big Tits. She then went on and on at him about being offensive and he shouldn't say that and he should call her by her name. He said he didn't remember her name, just her knockers.

He has also said racist things, apparently. She is still happy to converse with him as she thinks she will be able to change him. There is nothing you can do with these rancid men.

@NoMoreStupidGuys One of the best lessons I learned years ago was when to quit.

When on "matched" dates with rude, disrespectful, unpleasant men I gave myself permission to walk out.

I arranged to meet one guy at 7.00. he was late and at 7.25 I was about to leave when he arrived. I told him he was late and he said that he thought it was 7.30.

Anyway I stayed and he asked me what I wanted to drink "A sweet white wine?" he said "No, I said I'd prefer a rose".
He went to the bar and came back with a sweet white wine. Previously I would have drunk it and said nothing so as not to appear churlish, but this time I didn't. I asked him if he had problems with comprehension and he looked blank. I asked him if he was deaf. He said "No".

So I said that he'd got the time wrong and the drink wrong, so for me it wasn't going to work. Then I left.

I learned to start as I meant to go on.🙄

Yes! Makes me wanna tear my hair out when they start thread with so I’ve been seeing this really great guy but….cue reference to one of the scenarios mentioned in OPs post. Then the Q:AIBU/oversensitive/uncaring/a bitch etc. FFS! Rid and move on! Does this really need a MN consultation that mean controlling pricks are best avoided! 🤦🏻‍♀️

Yes! My friend, when I tell her what I think about this guy (whom I have not met, and don't want to, I've heard enough about him already) says "but I like him!"

Just how can you like a sexist misogynist who chucks casual racism into his chit chat?

That wasn’t my example, but I don’t think one person making choices about whether or not to be in a relationship implies blame on people who choose differently.

I wish I had your faith that things would change by women being less accommodating and raising fairer sons. But we’re seeing an awful lot of backlash, the world over, to women’s freedom.

I don’t know what the answer is. But my hunch is that the problem is more complex than just gender roles and socialisation.

Unfortunately women are not taught to trust their instincts. I believe we’ve evolved to self doubt and put others before ourselves. I don’t think these women are writing threads on purpose but it just goes to show how little we take our self needs seriously, if we even know what they are beyond serving others.

But look at all the DM, MIL and SIL posts. And the way some people are treated by their friends. Its women who behave like this as well. I think more people now think they are centre of the universe.