Issue with DF

[MammaJamma1]

First post but I'm inside my own head and need to let it out.

Married 12 years, about 7 years ago after our 1st child was born my DF and DH had a falling out. Over something and nothing, our side we were knackered, non sleeper, every illness going. I know my DH probably spoke sharply to my DF but expected a bit of leeway as we were broken. Neither side has really apologised but it was a storm in a teacup.

Long story short my DF refuses to acknowledge my DH's existence. Polite in same room, think family wedding's etc. But otherwise doesn't ask after him, doesn't comment if I mention him. I facilitate visits with my DD to their house.

My DF has always been someone who's moods we had to tiptoe around, what hurt me most was my DM was firmly on my DFs side and couldn't empathise how much we struggled with our DD. We always have to worry about not upsetting DF. I'm a grown woman and this continues to upset me and I just need to have someone hear me. I'm not even sure what I'm asking. But thank you for listening.

I am where you are! My DH and dad have just fallen out over something and nothing. My dad was horrible but grieving my mum. DH refused to let it go without an apology. Now I'm in a position where I have to accept they just won't see each other :(
You know what has been seriously helpful to me? ChatGPT. It's not therapy obviously but I've told it all my thoughts and reflections and crises over this and it's been so helpful to order my thoughts. Give it a try.

Thank you so much for responding, that's a really good idea. I can't see this being fixed, he's just so spiteful about it. He knows my DH line of work is currently going through hard times, but keeps on hoping ( and telling me!) that he hopes his industry goes belly up.

On the surface DF is a do anything for anyone. The only person I've told in real life who knows them simply can't believe that he can be like this. DM says 'just ignore him'. As an adult now and a Mum and seeing how she's glossed over all the times he's been a moody cantankerous person makes me really sad. I needed her to step up, all she said when she spoke to me was 'why have you upset your DF' 🙄😡

Sorry and edited to say, I am sorry you're experiencing the same. It's absolutely horrible to experience.

OP

re your comment
"My DF has always been someone who's moods we had to tiptoe around, what hurt me most was my DM was firmly on my DFs side and couldn't empathise how much we struggled with our DD. We always have to worry about not upsetting DF"

You are still worried about upsetting your father; a man who manufactured some slight against him/an argument between himself and your H seven years ago. I feel for your H in all this because your loyalties here still lie very much with your parents and not he. What message does that send your child if you go to their house without her dad?.

Do not pander to bullies!!!. Your dad is vile and your mother is his willing enabler. People like your dad cannot do relationships at all so need a willing person to help them; step forward your mother.

You've been playing into both your father's and mother's hands by taking your child around there without your H being present. You're continuing what was done to you by your dad as a child; pandering to his many moods. He is emotionally abusive and has treated your H, not just to say you, appallingly. Enough is enough. Drop the rope and start to severely curtail the number of visits you make to them. If he is too toxic or difficult for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for your kid also.

Your mother continues to enable him and you continue to tip toe around them both. She will never leave him; she has made her choice and has thrown you as her DD under the bus. They both get what they want out of their dysfunctional and otherwise codependent relationship.

I would suggest you read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward and seek out a BACP registered therapist to work with rather than using chat gpt.

So your Dad can be a crotchety old bastard and your DH is the only one in the family who’s ever stood up to him? Good. As someone who’s Dad was the same, I’d say let him stew, just carry on and ignore him when he’s like this! Your mother has facilitated his behaviour for years, but you don’t need to.

Abusers are often all sweetness and light to those in the outside world. It is behind closed doors that their true nature emerges. His portrayed image to the world of being a nice kind family sort is all important to him. Your mother helps him in this.

And how do you feel inside when your dad continues to make such disparaging comments about your H who is also your daughter's father?. You must squirm internally yet perhaps say nothing back. You would not surely tolerate this from a friend so why are you towering this from dear ol' dad?. Conditioning since childhood that is why and that will take a lot of time and effort on your part through therapy to undo and otherwise unlearn.

Tolerating not towering!.

Oh these replies... I was starting to come to all these thoughts myself and was wondering if I was overacting or over dramatising things. Honestly this is just what I needed, thank you. It's really validating how I feel today.

I posted because he went off about a minor tv celeb today over a facetime cosninsaodni liked him and literally ranted at me, it was a lighthearted call to check in today and now I feel shaky and teary. Nearly bloody 45 I am! I'm off to get that book now.

I can only understand that you have let this terrible behaviour by your father and mother continue as you've been conditioned from an early age and fear them.

You need to address your fears and do right by your husband.

Would they go to family mediation? Might be worth considering.

Yes and my poor DH, exactly right he stood up and said this is what is happening, we are exhausted, this is what my family needs to be well. And it was taken as a personal attack.

If your SIL was telling you how they were struggling as a new family unit, would you not be in the car and on your way to support.
?!? Cos I bloody know I would, regardless of how I was 'told'. I thought I'd get over it but as the years pass I'm still so fucking angry.

Ha no chance. Of the generation of 'we'd never had won a war with these snowflakes' . We don't talk about 'feelings', everything is 'fine, keep calm and carry on' this was a shock to them, someone drawing a line.

Mediation is NOT recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. In this instance it's a complete non starter. As if a man like OPs father would ever sit in front of a counsellor anyway; such types never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. And OPs mother will continue to back her spouse to the hilt.

We always have to worry about not upsetting DF

You really don't.

Do I need to confront him to start winding back? I'm going to need baby steps here, I'm already leaving longer gaps between seeing them. For full context, they're about 2 hours away so it's normally an overnight stay with DD. They won't come here, despite me encouraging and hinting heavily.

Honestly, I wouldn't confront. I have been back and forwards in my head and with my siblings about my dad and we all concluded there is no point confronting as he will never change. I have to protect myself and my family. That means my husband doesn't have to see him if he doesn't want to. Why would you encourage your dad to come into your home after his behaviour to your husband? Time to let that relationship go. I've realised that while my dad's late wife and children may have decided we have to manage dad, our spouses don't have to. It's not my DH's job to accept disrespect or hurtful behaviour.

Also - 2 hours is nothing. Stop staying overnight. Travel down for late morning, stay for lunch and an afternoon walk or whatever, then leave.

Yes, this is the realisation I have gradually come to I think. I've just not admitted it to myself. I need to keep it all surface level too, I think I'm so desperate to have a functional 'normal' relationship. But, I've never really built an adult relationship with them I think. Always been the good DD causing no drama.

Whatever the argument was about, this here is spiteful and awful. He wants you, and his grandchild to suffer just to spite DH? I would not be having that.

Agreed, it was a sector particularly hard done by in covid too, when he says stuff like that I say ' well that's half my families livelihood so we'll agree to disagree' and he still says stuff. I'm so exhausted by it all.

I truely appreciate every reply here, I posted on impulse eating my feelings with a mconalds mcflurry 😀 this so cathartic.

No need to confront. Just drop the rope and further reduce frequency of visits.

As pp said. Drop the rope. If you still want to visit don't do overnight. If there is trouble/ comments during visit leave immediately.

I really need to bloody pull my big girl pants up and do this you know, leave if he starts. I tried it once and my poor DD was upset saying why are you arguing, DM begging us not to go. Just awful.

You should be supporting your husband here and your daughter should not be exposed to your dad's unpleasantness. You are rewarding your parents bad behaviour with your compliance. No point confronting them, they are happy with the way things are, you can't change them but you don't have to accept it.
My parents were like this, nastiness to my husband was my line in the sand.

Narcissists can’t be reasoned with - it’s their way or nothing

Sometimes an outside perspective is so valuable. I posted here about 18 months ago about an argument with my sister, fully expecting to get my arse handed to me. But instead saw a whole new side to the issue.

Sometimes when you're so used to a dynamic, especially one that is supported by other members of the family (like your mother in this instance) you think it is normal and reasonable and that anyone challenging it, or rocking the boat (like your husband) is unreasonable. Because the fall out is uncomfortable.

An outsider can look and say, well no, that dynamic is unhealthy and unfair, and your husband is right. It's a strange feeling, but so valuable.