How to turn my lack of success around...

[Seldomseen20]

Not really sure if this is best here or in the sex topic as it crosses over into both...

I've been single for over 2 years since the breakdown of my marriage due to infidelity (his part not mine). It was a poor marriage on a lot of points with a very poor physical relationship. Pre split he was my only physical experience.
I've been putting myself out there both with OLD and in real life and seem to come across older men who are smutty, explicit and direct as they are looking to enjoy a casual relationship with someone younger, or younger men who seem to think I'm going to impart some form of sexual knowledge on them. I feel i fit into neither and would be a disappointment to both.

I'm genuinely looking for a mid to long term relationship but am also terrified as although I've slept with a few people post split, they've ghosted me 1 or 2 dates later so it has made me feel I must be awful in bed. I also seem to be an awful judge of character with all the people who I invest effort in only for them to disappear.

I feel like the 38 year old virgin, who is yet to be properly loved or experience true physical enjoyment, yet people expect me to know what I am doing.
I don't really know what response I am hoping for other than sharing that I feel so alone. Maybe others have felt the same but no longer do, either because they found a compatible match or now love being alone. I'm a social type so have found the last 2 years really hard.

Ok. Firstly, you’re not awful in bed so get that right out of your head. Those men were just after a shag, they got one and moved on. They are the type of men who are like a dog with 2 dicks when it comes to OLD.

Secondly, you are not a disappointment to anyone! Any man should be honoured that you choose to spend any time with them. So get that out of your head.

Thirdly, you know what you don’t want (old and smutty or young and inexperienced) so let’s focus on what you do want. It sounds like you’d like a bit more relaxed fun and more of a social life. Why not join Meet Up groups in your area? There are plenty that go out for meals, drinks, cinema, theatre, etc. in a group which takes all the pressure off and gives you a chance to talk and meet with with men and women, make friends… which can lead wherever you want it to at your pace.

You really sound like you’ve had the stuffing knocked out of you, which isn’t surprising when you’ve been cheated on. You’ve been dealt a shitty hand but your divorce doesn’t define you. It’s ok to feel a bit lonely… it shows you’re alive! Be kind to yourself. Only spend time with people who deserve your time and don’t worry about the amount of sexual experience you have/haven’t got. When someone cares about you they don’t care… and everything will happen naturally.

Good luck OP you sound really lovely.

It’s not you!
There are plenty of people out there who only want one thing or who see a recently divorced woman as easy meat. You just need to be really really picky. Take your time to know them. Not all of us are what you’ve experienced so far but OLD can be rude and bruising. I totally get what you say about investing emotionally only to get ghosted - it happens to men too, you need to learn to hold back emotionally until you’re sure they are worth that time and investment.
I’ll say it again - it’s not you, don’t give up but filter rigorously! There’s a lot of dross and lies out there so take your time.

Echo everything that has already been said. Some great advice here. When you find the right person, the sex gets better and better the more you get to know each other.

I think with OLD it seems to be a numbers game. You're best to treat it lightly if you can, as a way to meet new people. Go on lots of dates but I'd be wary of taking it further unless you are able to separate sex and feelings. I seem to be able to do that, so I found it a lot of fun.

I have a bit of a different opinion than the PPs. Are you looking for a real relationship, and finding someone for something long term? Or are you looking to explore and finding out about yourself?

I decided to do the second after my divorce and it was brilliant. Met men who hardly knew me, and yet were kinder and treated me better than my ex husband, who supposedly "loved" me. (Definitely a "Shirley Valentine" experience).

If you want to meet people and have fun, just be very clear about what you want, forget about being "good" in bed. Focus on YOUR enjoyment, not in pleasing anyone. (And I mean it for everything, not only sex. Go for a coffee with a date in a place you want to go. Ask things that you want to know). Some men really like to see a woman enjoying herself.

Thanks.

Im lucky that I do have a few small friendship groups, some are scattered across the UK and others local. It can be tough booking time to do things though as I have kids 50% of the time and most of them have kids and demanding jobs so an evening when we are free at the same time seems few and far between.
I definitely think it's important to be picky @Bittenonce and I always feel like I am. In over 2 years I've had a date with about 7 men. I think I'm quite an open person, very chatty and super empathetic so maybe that means I do overinvest (I probably do that in all walks of life, people would describe me as unbelievably nice). I'll have to try and find a way to step back a little I guess.

@JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn i think relaxed fun is probably a good fit and then see what comes from it. I don't want there to be any pressure and I want to get to know someone. I'll see what things are local, although most seem to be running or reading groups which are not my thing.
I know that you are right in that someone who cares won't care about my insecurities and lack of experience, I guess it just becomes this cycle that each bad experience reinforces the narrative that you have about yourself.
I wonder if having taken so long to find someone who wanted to have a physical relationship with me and it being so unsatisfying, Im probably too open to the physical side earlier on as I don't want to be with someone else who is incompatible as I feel I deserve to know what the big deal is about sex. And there is definitely a fear that I'll go through my whole life never knowing which is probably me putting pressure on myself to rush things.

@whatwouldlilacerullodo i think id definitely be open to that and have tried. Men seem to talk and then when it gets to a date setup they disappear.
In the long term I definitely want something committed, but would be open to a casual FWB set up. I've tried to go down that route and been open that a one off wouldn't work (as I clearly need to feel comfortable with my prior experience) but being able to have a laugh and regular meets would be fine. The only one that led to a meet on that front he messaged straight after sleeping together that actually he just wanted it to be a one off.

You can't make they commit to an ongoing thing, even if it's casual. If they want an ONS (and they are an arsehole) they'll say whatever they think you want to hear. I discovered that fwb relationships are hard to find (so you'd better enjoy the search)

I suggest you try to do what YOU feel like, hour by hour. If you like the kiss and want to sleep with the guy, do it. Don't expect anything the next day, do it only if you want to enjoy that very night, with no expectations or plans.

Some men won't like it, because if you act like this, you take away their power (they use the idea of a relationship as a carrot to keep you sweet). But if you really manage to enjoy it, the right guys will stay around. (But it may take a while to find these guys. Most are rubbish, but I promise I found a few amazing men).

(Quoted the wrong message, sorry)

@Seldomseen20 when you’re naturally a nice, honest, giving person - it can be easy to assume others are the same. Often - especially when OLD - they’re not. You’re still young, there’s no hurry, just try to be a little skeptical!

I think the fwb may work if literally you are friends but not going anywhere. My friend has one who she goes to if any of her date nights don't end well. It actually stops her getting invested plus apparently good in bed. However lifewise, he's a no hoper whereas she's a successful woman, so it works for them both. I don't think FWB works when you try and organise it

I agree with others here, OP. There’s nothing wrong with you. OLD is a gift for sleazy men who will say anything to get a one-night stand, or a few nights, and then ghost you and on to the next one.

Also the other time-wasters, who lead you on with messages for months but never get round to meeting you. They just want a free sexting service!

Don’t be disheartened. Persevere with coffee dates, making sure you meet up within a week or two of first contact. Follow all the safety advice, and never be pressured into having sex if you don’t want to.

There are plenty of good people OLD. It may just take time. Best of luck xx

Agreed.

I also treated almost as though it were a job / I was hiring someone.

I created a "standardised process"
I tweaked my profile (its your marketing you want it optimised to your target audience 😂)
I matched sunday evening from about 6-10 while watching tv and would send initial messages then move to what's app.
They'd get offered a date tue - thu
Low key, low commitment - a pub near a major station somewhere central and i made my excuses after 1 drink if I wasnt keen (your gut knows!).

It took me over a year to have the confidence to say "no it doesnt suit me to meet you in the arse end of no where" and also to stop wasting an evening drinking with some plonker named Mike I had no future with to "be polite"

Work out your own system and optimise it.
Its a numbers game.

Also taylor swift wasnt wrong "there's a lot of cool girls/ lame guys out there!"

Thanks all
@AlorsTimeForWine i try to standardise it a little and get the info I need to try and gauge if they are interesting/compatible etc, but it gets very monotonous asking the same things and feels like i am interviewing them for a role.
I've had a vast difference in profiles from ones that are very "long term" based in their direction, others that are "short term" focused and even ones that have me as open to a variety of things dependent on how we get on.

At this point I'd be happy if they asked me on a date to start with and then stuck to it. I don't really get why someone asks for your number if they don't plan to arrange something (and I do ask when they don't and it still ends the same)

I suppose I maybe need to reset, find a way to remind myself that it's just luck and numbers, and be more confident in how I express what I want from people in the dating realm.
I am definitely the type who wants to believe that people are inherently nice, even though with dating I usually find I am just waiting for them to disappear so don't tend to get carried away. I sway towards the statistics and as mine are rubbish, I presume that men will never actually want to go on a date.

I presume that men will never actually want to go on a date

Just don’t feel grateful when they do! It’s actually tougher for men to get dates than women (or maybe it’s just my age 😂) but probably more of them are damaged, predatory or just tossers! Believe in your self worth

I agree with others, your insecurities about yourself are irrelevant. You know what you want so don't let your standards drop. I went 12 years from the end of one long term relationship to meeting my husband, including a 3 year period of celibacy in the middle. I much preferred being celibate to being used and had a full and enjoyable life.

Your reply is spot on & really lovely x

I've tried to go down that route and been open that a one off wouldn't work (as I clearly need to feel comfortable with my prior experience)

Hi OP, unfortunately, this can come off as needy, especially before you've even met them.

Keep your cards to your chest and deal with the dates as they come. If you click and meet some more, you can then talk about your wants.

Sometimes you date for a long time thinking he's the one and it turns to nothing, whilst on the other hand, an initial fwb can turn out to be the one.

It's not you though, I was on tinder for what felt like half a decade before finding what I was looking for.

As others have said, it's a numbers game.

@Treesandsheepeverywhere yes, i tend to avoid sharing but having no luck thought I'd see if that made a difference.
Process of elimination I guess seeing what might help. Alas, didn't change a thing lol.

@Yoonimum i think 12 years would make me a hermit. I don't think my ex really want to date me but unbeknownst to me at the time I think there was peer pressure from my friends as I was was getting older and the only one left on the shelf. Psychologically it would feel a bit shit. Glad you enjoyed the celibacy, I've been celibate most of my life (pre married and while married) so not sure I'm keen.

Stick with it OP, I deleted my app numerous times before finally being successful.

@Treesandsheepeverywhere i definitely am conscious of taking regular breaks from it. Not just to reset and reevaluate, get some perspective and remind myself that there is a world out there that isn't on an app. But also because you seem to see the same people cycling back round who have left, had a relationship of some kind and returned.

I highly recommend looking into Burnt Haystack Dating Method, especially the Facebook group. It has transformed my outlook on (and experience of) online dating.

I think this is excellent advice. This is what I've increasingly found myself doing in various parts of my life. It's been a real eye-opener and almost always in good ways.

This is the best advice anyone could give OP! It’s so true, honest, genuine and kind! This is what your best friend would say! 💯 agree with everything this lady says.
Sending you big hugs and listen to these wise words! Believe in yourself! 💝

I agree, it’s better to be celibate or alone than being used by others or being in a bad relationship!

Great post!