Being friends with the parents of your children's friends

[Tigermoth]

Is it me or do others get upset about this? My son has a good number of friends both in and out of school. I like to assume that if a friendship is making both children happy, their mothers (or fathers) would make some effort to get to know each other, too.

My son has one friend he has known since he was a toddler. They get on very well and I seem to get on well with his mother. But the only time we meet up is when she has her son on tow. Because our children naturally want our attention then, and the visits are fairly child-centered, it's difficult to hold a long adult conversation with her -though we do try! She's always eager to meet up, but when I've suggested we meet sometimes for a few hours by ourselves she has made it clear she does not want to. I'm sorry, but I find this a bit insulting. Presumably she likes my son and I enough to spend time with us - or is she just tolerating it for the sake of the children's friendship?

I've noticed the same thing happening with some of my son's other friends, both old and new. Some mothers seem to see it all in a very one-dimensional way. I obviously don't expect to become close buddies with each mother every time my son makes a new friend, but it's nice to get to know new people in my son's social circle, and if we like each other too, having our own friendship. I just don't like basing adult friendships on solely on meetings when I am in full-time mum mode. It makes me feel far too old and respectable!

I don't want to come across as Billy-no-friends - I do have lots of friends who aren't like this, honest!! but I find the mothers who do this rather baffling. Any comments?

Hi Tigger, no, just very very busy lately ...I've just read this board and laughed out loud several times, especially Croppy's account of the powder blue finger nails! Oh, I have just thought of something else I wanted to mention to you, will find the appropriate board in a minute.

To all you software engineers out there, I am currently learning and very enthusiastic about Together4.0, much better than Un-Rational Rose! it's definitely the future, any views?

Having read Pamina's posting and others perhaps I don't want to know where the nearest NCT group is after all. Hello Pamina!

I have to admit that whenever I see mothers en masse all looking determindly motherly and serious, I have this awful urge to be as non-PC as I can, professing to feeding my baby pina colada etc. so perhaps I should steer well clear of organsied activity of this kind.

I do remember one comment I got at a child's birthday party dominated by lots of NCT parents. I mentioned to one complete stranger that I worked full time. Without a moments hesitation, she said 'poor you'. Yuck.

Pamina, sadly NCT membership does not preclude you being a nutter or a pervert. We had both (very luckily married to each other) in our quite small group and the rest of us spent a lot of time that summer diving into gateways, shrubberies etc whenever we saw either of them approaching. Sample dialogue: Her: "I'm really looking forward to breast-feeding my ickle baby." Him: "I'm really looking forward to watching". He didn't actually add fnarr fnarr but I bet he was thinking it.
I too found the NHS mob a lot more jolly and less pretentious.
Tigermoth, I don't think there is one. I'm seriously thinking about starting one, notwithstanding my experience with the antenatal group. A friend is the treasurer of Lewisham and Greenwich NCT, I'll ask her.
Nice to see you back Sml. My house is buried in O'Reilly tomes at the moment (husband is teach yourself Perl geek of the year). I can assure those fed up of Thomas the Tank Engine that he is riveting in comparison.

Tee Hee Tigermoth. Similarly, I have often had "how dreadful!" to my revealing that I work. On a different issue, I have just discovered that our son't beloved trike has been stolen from our garden (aaah the joys of living in London!). IT was an expensive xmas present from Daisy and Tom. I really can't be bothered to drive all the way to Chelsea - does anyone know an internet site that has good trikes? many thanks

thank you Marina, but Thomas the Tank engine more riveting than Perl? no way - that infernal little blue pest is definitely the pits - and the worst thing is, I can remember LIKING the books myself as a child!

Marina, do let me know if you do anything on the NCT front. If you're organising it, I feel I'm in safe territory.

message withdrawn

When mine were small I was invited by Miss Priss supermom at the nursery if I'd like to attend the 'ladies sewing circle'. We all lived in an isolated area and the idea was that when each person hosted the morning they brought a new friend so that the circle got wider and wider. It wasn't too bad if you didn't mind sewing, wearing Laura Ashley, discussing gynae problems and spode china etc, but one fine day I went to a house where the hostess had always seemed to be a bit shallow but she turned out to be chronically shy and her friend also turned out to be normal and said arse and asked where the wine was etc etc! I waited months for that day! Needless to say we formed our own group the 'stitch and bitch' session and did it our way!! Strangely enough after the split miss priss came round to my house and insisted I simply must come to their session!!! fame at last.

message withdrawn

RobinW, what you do is talk in hushed tones of great grandmama's wedding gift of crown derby from when she was 'in service'! I'm much much better at the gynae talk having spent a year at the sewing circle listening slackjawed and bored rigid!! I'm not allowed to wear LAshley any more since my new best friend says they look like whore's curtains! (How does she know these things?!) The best thing was the actual idea of having someone new at the hostess house each month so at least you could look forward to one potential friend at each meeting if you didn't much like the others! I can't take the earthmother groupies, although I acknowledge I'm generalising and that the groups are only as good as their members, but the ones I've been to just bring out the worst in me, so best I don't go there and be causing trouble with my wicked ways!!

message withdrawn

I'll have to speak to my only friend and ask her where she got her association about LA from! By the way, I once took a pair of beloved's work shorts to the sewing circle and pretended to darn the blown crutch with black wool. Noone said a word! I found a pair of fruity knickers that had a zip (ouch) up the crutch and was going to take them and pretend to insert a new zip, to see if anyone would say anything, but beloved put foot down with firm hand. No teasing the animals says he. These women were incredible stiff upper lip types, the pride of the empire - seperate dining rooms for entertaining and ginwallahs etc - but sense of fun or ridiculous long since gorn!

Kia, is this a stupid question, but while you were all wearing curtains and sewing unmentionables, were were all the children? Where they at school, or is this the sort of activity one gets involved in when one's children are grown up and you are but an empty husk of the woman you once were?

Talking of missing children,how about this? One bank holiday my son was playing with a little-known neighbour's boy outside our house. It began to rain and they wanted to play indoors, upstairs. I asked the boy to check with his parents and watched them go into his house. A few minutes later they reappeared with his three-year-old sister in tow.

His parents had said he could come and play but he had to take his sister with him. Not a please or thank you from the parents, much less an appearance! I didn't want to disappoint the boys, so I let them in to play for a short time, while I tried to entertain and supervise this inquisitive young stranger, leaving their parents to a nice quiet bank holiday afternoon.

I still havn't had the pleasure of meeting them.

Also have just contacted sons' school to leave third message about joining PTA. Still waiting for reply.

It is quite difficult to get friendly with people at nurseries, as everyone is always in such a rush, and after not seeing your child all day you want to concentrate on them, not others (and probably wouldn't be allowed to anyway!) It is possible though, as one of my best friends I met through my child's nursery. Since my daughter has started school, I've also met a few other people who I get on well with, and have just got to the going out on our own stage, but it does take an effort. Gripe from my husband, when he drops off or picks up at school (which he usually does a couple of times a week) NOBODY talks to him, not even to say good morning. We live in the North West, so it's not that famed southern reticence (my husband is from London & they definately are less likely to talk down there). Oh, I joined the NCT pre-birth, and while it was quite good at clueing you in prior to the birth, it was no use at all after. Every one ws very much 'knit your own yoghurt' etc and I got the most horrified looks when I suggested that they might help me find good local childcare when I returned to work!

message withdrawn

RobinW I only put work shorts just in case anyone thought I'd taken his underwear to the sewing circle(eew!) Tigermoth, at the time when I had this surreal experience I lived in the Middle East and I had one baby of 9 months and another on the way. (oops, no TV you see!) I used to take my little girlee with me everywhere because she was brilliant, just used to sit there with her big eyes taking it all in. Thats why I thought everyone else must be doing it all wrong because I didn't have any problems! Then I had a little boy and learned abject humility!! Mine never had nits till we came back to UK. Then we managed to give them not only to the children of a lovely couple we met, but the couple themselves and their in-laws! Boy were we popular for a while!

I have been very lucky with my NCT group. None of us are placenta eating, weave your own pube types. We have all continued to meet up once a week and our babies are nearly 18 months old. Out of 6 of us, only 2 have gone back to work but the day of meeting was moved specifically so that we could all still meet up. Some of the SAHMs take their job intensely seriously and are sometimes so caringly earnest I have to bite my naughty lips very hard indeed. However, I don't think that is 'cos they stay at home but just because they are like that anyway.
I found them all to be a huge source of support, particularly in those eye achingly knackering early months when you don't know what on earth you're doing.
However, I have been very lucky. I sometimes find myself in the company of other mothers and want to run away and hide. I tried out a Gymboree session and couldn't wait to leave. It was like some ghastly cliche of middle England. Lots of loud braying women shouting "well done" and "splendid" to their poor kids. Not one of the mothers made eye contact with me, let alone smiled. I did wonder if it was my mad rolling eyes and the big splif hanging out of my mouth!!!! (Not really)

message withdrawn

RobinW sorry to disappoint you, best beloved only wears shorts when its completely unavoidable being of the white viking skin variety which gets 3rd degree burns the moment the sun shines! Not much joy when you live in the ME really!

Dear Barka, Such A Comfort to know that I am not the only social pariah. That whole "who the hell do you think you are you weird SMILING person?" bit is a bit of a blow, isn't it? So many folks out there are just unable to muster the social basics, a quick "Good Morning" is like pulling teeth to them. I completely recognise the isolated Dad thing as well - my lovely Hubs is totally snubbed by all, and believe me, he's far more socially skilled than I. The worst thing was my child asking if friend X,Y, or Z could come to play; I would then drop a casual "How about it?" note, with phone no. to the Mum via the nursery pigeon holes, and get absolutely zero replies. That was heartbreaking for my little girl. It made me steaming mad, not even a courteous, "sorry, not now maybe later". I couldn't believe it, good thing I didn't know what the buggers looked like. I accept that some folks are a little shy, but for my child, I will do anything, even risk meeting a stranger because our children are friends. Once the birthday parties began to roll things did improve and there are more easy-going people at her big school.Us polite folks just have to keep plugging away until we meet each other, don't let these snobs win, Barka. PS nice to know so many others have got it in for the NCT as well.

Dear Barka, Such A Comfort to know that I am not the only social pariah. That whole "who the hell do you think you are you weird SMILING person?" bit is a bit of a blow, isn't it? So many folks out there are just unable to muster the social basics, a quick "Good Morning" is like pulling teeth to them. I completely recognise the isolated Dad thing as well - my lovely Hubs is totally snubbed by all, and believe me, he's far more socially skilled than I. The worst thing was my child asking if friend X,Y, or Z could come to play; I would then drop a casual "How about it?" note, with phone no. to the Mum via the nursery pigeon holes, and get absolutely zero replies. That was heartbreaking for my little girl. It made me steaming mad, not even a courteous, "sorry, not now maybe later". I couldn't believe it, good thing I didn't know what the buggers looked like. I accept that some folks are a little shy, but for my child, I will do anything, even risk meeting a stranger because our children are friends. Once the birthday parties began to roll things did improve and there are more easy-going people at her big school.Us polite folks just have to keep plugging away until we meet an answering smile.

I've been off work for several weeks and for the first time ever, have had the chance to do the whole "school run thing" with my two. I love it! All the parents are soooo friendly; one of them took me on a shopping trip incase I was bored whilst off work (ooh of course I'm bored - I DON't think!) and the couple who we'd count as our best friends my partner actually first met in the playground. Maybe Birmingham is the friendliest place?!

On a slightly different note here - am I the only one who hasn't made a whole new circle of friends through their antenatal group? I went along with my husband to the classes, I think there were about 4 or 5 meetings and then we were shown around the maternity suite, but everyone went their separate ways at the end of each meeting and the midwife never suggested to mums-to-be about keeping in contact with each other, and I didn't give it a second thought at the time. My cousin in Scotland had a baby round about the same time as me, and would always go on about what her and her other new-mum friends were up to - coffee mornings, swimming etc. I began to feel a bit miffed about this, as another acquaintance was saying the same thing. Don't think that I, too, am Billy-no-Mates, but most of my friends are via work and they don't have kids. I've been going to a Mums and Toddler group for a while, but apart from a few 'hello's' have not got much farther than that - I am a very friendly person, honest! (I am hopeful though - I went to a couple of M&Ts before settling on this one as the atmosphere at the other ones was icy to say the least - talk about cliquish.)