How to process this - sex and marriage

[Piccalino3]

I am separated from my husband of 13 years and am just starting to process what went wrong in our marriage and why.

I think it boils down to a lack of emotional connection and intimacy over many years, but today I have been thinking about how our sex life dwindled. We have 3 kids, I've had birth injuries each time and then a recent repair of the last injury, so there's been a fair bit of physical trauma to that area that did no good for that aspect of our lives. Over the last 5 years, really since our last child was born, I didn't want to have sex anymore. Our physical intimacy stopped over the last year because any non sexual physical touch would lead to pressure for sex, which I didn't want.

The thing I'm trying to process now is my feelings about sex. For the last 2-3 years of our relationship I would give in to duty sex. My husband would ask and I'd say no, and then he'd pester and sulk which made me feel pressured. I'd give in at times to keep the peace, sometimes I would be actively angry while doing it and say something along the lines of 'hurry up and get it over with', he would and then he'd say thank you. There were a few occasions I turned to my side after and cried. The pestering wasn't all time, maybe once a month, but the feeling of emptiness would be awful. I couldn't bear to kiss him, would turn my head away. Sometimes I would actually feel physically like I wanted sex but also really didn't want to do it which was confusing. There were a couple of occasions he was drunk and threatened me by shouting that there would be 'consequences', although we never discussed what these were.

He was never forceful, and I did tell him the impact of his behaviour when we went to marriage counselling and that it made me feel like a wank sock. I tried surgery to fix my prolapse, HRT, reading erotic books etc to increase my desire, it didn't work and now we are separated I find that I am sexually interested in another man, so when I thought I was broken I was not, it was probably the situation. He was hurt by the lack of physical touch and I understand that.

Suddenly I find myself reflecting on these experiences of sex and it's upset me. I think of my husband to be a good person and things just didn't work out with us for various reasons, but this sits with me, I wonder how I'll react in my next relationship (if I have one) around sex and expectation.

Has anyone had any experience of this?

That behaviour sounds completely unacceptable, OP.

But may I ask what your own sexual feelings were at the time? I'm childfree so haven't had your experiences, so was it an absolute 'I don't want sex' or just 'not with your penis. I'll masturbate instead', thanks.

This is something that doesn't get addressed in PP posts like this, in my experience as a Mumsnet lurker.

I completely expect to be trolled as a pervert but I promise I'm not. I'm just keen on women owning their own sexuality. And being prepared to discuss it as part of their sexual history.

@MiloMinderbinder925 I'm not sure I know what the difference between duty sex and coerced sex is?

I know that coerced sex is sex that is unwanted but gained by pressure, threat etc. but duty sex isn't there an element of duty sex that is also unwanted - can you give enthusiastic consent to duty sex? I think that's the issue for me here in identifying what happened. Yes there was some whinging, nagging, some aggression with the rejection at times and threat - but it wouldn't have been much better if I'd just said yes from the get go because I knew he wanted to and I didn't. I'm having trouble unpicking this part.

About duty sex.

If I understand correctly it means consensual but not desired?

I agree that it's not the same as coerced sex or rape.

And I get why it's seen as being in the interests if the relationship.

But honestly, how does it make the partner doing their "duty" feel? If it's just once in a why, it might be tolerable. But every time?

And as for the partner on the receiving end, I don't know how they can fully enjoy the experience.

Cross post.

I’m a few years further done the line than you, to a more unpleasant man.

It was at least a year before I could even think about ever having sex again, and most of another year again before I actually could.
I think your concerns are fully valid, and it did impact, I had months of flashbacks and had to mentally kick him out of the bed of the new relationship.
But it was totally worth the effort.

If your partner pressures you to have sex, that is coercion. For example, not taking no for an answer, wearing away at you until you give in, bullying you, threatening you.

It's also about context. If you're in an abusive relationship and you know there will be consequences if you don't have sex, that's coerced sex.

Coerced sex is rape.

Duty sex is where you have sex in order to keep your partner happy because you love them. It's a choice and there is no coercion or pressure.

@CrystalSingerFan It's good to have these discussions. It wasn't always an absolute resolute no. I also think somewhere along the way that I got the message that women are supposed to resist a bit, that sex is something that is done to women, men will always push the boundary and it's up to the women to rein it in. There's something unhealthy there, and I think men also get that message too. Maybe that was part of the problem. Looking back in don't think I've ever claimed my sexuality. I've always been a bit passive in what I wanted and maybe didn't even know. After children I have been very out of touch with my body too, which didn't help.

The instances I was referencing in my original post were an absolute no, I do not want to engage in sexual activity, I want to be left alone, to sleep, to scroll my phone.

@DoRayMeMeMe, thank you, that's interesting. We've been separated since November and haven't actually had sex since much earlier in that year. I think these feeling are starting to surface because I'm thinking about having sex again and I'm a bit scared but happy about it. My feelings around sex are more complex than they were before my marriage. I need to sit with that and think about it.

@MiloMinderbinder925 thank you. That's a good but painful distinction.

I think I may speak to one of my volunteer colleagues who I am friendly with about all of this. This thread has been really helpful and i've felt really emotional about it today.

Please speak to a professional that specialises in sexual abuse. You can contact Rape Crisis whenever you're ready:
https://rapecrisis.org.uk/

I feel times are changing though. For example we understand what is coercive sex and agree that it is wrong. But do we not feel that duty sex is unhealthy? Surely we should be aiming at this point for enthusiastic sex for women and nothing less?

This is really interesting @Springrainfalling. Surely when having sex both parties should be feeling like they want it? I can't imagine many men having duty sex, I'd hate to think someone was having sex with me when they didn't want it. Surely it has a negative impact on the relationship in the longer term?

Sorry I don't think "duty sex" is really okay. Sex isn't a duty. It's a choice, a way to connect emotionally with your partner, to make and remake love within the relationship. It has to be mutually desired.

Yes sure at times you might decide to have sex without really feeling much desire - that's probably normal for both men and women to do that once in a while, in the context of a healthy relationship, where you both find that sex will be pleasurable and reconnecting even if it's not instigated in a whirl of passion. Appointment sex, maybe.

I just don't understand a person who would want to have sex with an unwilling partner. Knowing that it's causing them pain and distress. Knowing they're only doing it because you've nagged, threatened, worn them down. You wouldn't do that to your partner - why is it okay for them to do that to you? It isn't.

I understand this. I loved my exH very much, we have 2 dc and were married for 20 years. The same thing happened to 3 of my friends. One is still in her very long marriage but they don’t have sex and both are happy with that. It doesn’t seem to be uncommon that the desire just somehow goes.

4 years ago I fell in love with someone new. Everything just evolved naturally, everything in this relationship just feels easy and comfortable. My advice would be to take things slowly in any potential new relationship.

@Piccalino3 ‘it is not me that is broken in terms of the desire, but it was the situation.’

Spot on, very eloquently put.

I wish sexual health was properly part of the general lexicon and young people grew up understanding more than the birds and the bees and safe sex

sex is extremely important to many people and most men.

sex becomes problematic for many women.

some people are asexual and it is important to understand this about oneself and others you consider being in a relationship with.

sex or the rejection of sex impacts people deeply and fundamentally changes a relationship.

demanding sex is coercion

refusing to continue to have a physical relationship may mean accepting a relationship is over

one person choosing to end a relationship over lack of a physical relationship does not make them a bastard who only thinks of sex. It is intrinsically connected for many people.

no one should be gritting their teeth through sex.

sometimes no longer wanting sex with someone is a signal to move on. Not try to force them to accept a sexless life.

Duty sex as in ‘I really do not want this but I’ll grit me teeth through it’ is dreadful

Duty sex as it ‘meh, I’m not feeling super horny but I adore him and would enjoy being close to him and he’s clearly horny as fuck and I know once we get started I’ll enjoy it’ is what I consider healthy in a loving relationship.

even ‘oh go on then whilst I just lie here’ and then we end up giggling and laughing as he’s prodding about and we have a lovely snuggly cuddle as well is sometimes in the cards.

my point is if you wait until you are gagging for it you may well find you lose the urge altogether.

Yes, I can see the difference here and share your point of view. Appointment sex would fall into the acceptable category too for me if all is well in the relationship

I think the unpleasant sort of duty sex is a symptom of deeper problems in the relationship, like a lack of emotional connection, imbalance.

And I think this is why many women go off sex.

@Piccalino3, Thanks for answering my question in the spirit in which it was meant. You replied:

"I also think somewhere along the way that I got the message that women are supposed to resist a bit, that sex is something that is done to women, men will always push the boundary and it's up to the women to rein it in. There's something unhealthy there"

I would absolutely say so. Can you say more about where you got this idea from? It's highly unlikely you're older than me, so I guess it's local-cultural rather than general-historical. And of course there are men that will push 'the boundary' and society should agree what that is and reign it in.

"Looking back in don't think I've ever claimed my sexuality."

Good luck with claiming it in the future. I hope you enjoy it.

@CrystalSingerFan, thanks for prompting my thoughts on this. I've never discussed it with other women to see if this is how they feel so not sure if it's unusual.

I'm 46, so last of the Gen X, white British. I suppose it directly came from my Mum, I got the impression that she found it a chore - her advice was not to start having sex too early because once you start you can't stop. I suppose the rest of it is more about societal conditioning - don't be too easy, be sexual when appropriate but let the man lead, I don't know.

I think I need to process what has happened in my marriage, evaluate my own thinking about sex and get back in touch with my body, which I know I am lacking at the moment.

I don’t think that women that have gone off sex with their partners but are avoiding talking about it are trying to control their partners to the point of being abusive. I think they have simply gone off sex for various reasons (sometimes because of real issues with their partners) but don’t discuss it because they still love and are attached to their partners and are afraid of losing them. It is a difficult task to separate from a partner of a sometimes decades long relationship, even if in the best interest of both parties ultimately. I don’t think it helps at all to view this as abusive.

@Piccalino3

You said: "thanks for prompting my thoughts on this. I've never discussed it with other women to see if this is how they feel so not sure if it's unusual."

I initially skimmed this statement, and then realised "well me neither". (Other reasons than yours.) But I learned a lot from books about what workable, enjoyable sexual relationships could be like from books. Good luck.

@CrystalSingerFan any particular books you would recommend? I feel like this is an area of life I've just expected to work without actually understanding at all,

Sex shouldn't be a duty. It's bound to put you off sex more to do it when you don't want it. There's nothing appealing about turning it into a chore. Sex is supposed to be fun, and loving, and wanted.

That OP's husband would have sex with her even though she was clearly not into it, wanted him to hurry it up and cried afterwards- that's just disgusting.

He isn't a good man. He treated the woman he was supposed to love as a masturbatory aid. It was coercive and grim and wrong.

Apologies if you're asking for books written by psychologists, therapists, etc. but I meant fiction. What turns you on?

I've enjoyed books like 'bodice rippers' at school, (no details as I'm avoiding the perverts) but also: Jean Auel's 'Clan of the Cave Bear' and Jacqueline Carey's 'Kushiel; multi-part series. Enjoy, if they suit...

@AnAries I was thinking about your comment, the issue here is that generally women (mainly) don't go from a functioning sexual relationship and wake up one morning and say that's it, I'm not having sex again and my husband will have to deal with it. It happens over time and it's complex, lots of multifaceted reasons.

In my case I didn't even understand why until recently, I thought it might be stress, tried to fix that, hormones, tried to fix that, physiology, tried to fix that, nothing worked and all the time there was the pressure to do it when I didn't want to, which then fed into a negative feedback loop until I realised that having sex I didn't want was damaging me.

How is that mean or abusive? It's the evolution of the problems in the relationship. Now it's over, I can see that the lack of emotional connection prior to the sex dwindling, and then the pestering and coercive sex lead to the death of the sex life in its totality. It was never an intention to deny my husband sex, it did have a negative impact on him, and it had a negative impact on me.

I suppose communication about feelings and connection at a very much earlier stage may have prevented this, but then again communication was part of the problem before the sex life, or lack thereof, became the problem.