My brother and my DH hate each other

[Cleanbed]

DH and my brother really dislike each other, always have. Brother likes to be top dog, and winds DH up. DH doesn’t like this.
Our daughter has gone no contact, (now19) but I know she still sees my brother sometimes ( which he doesn’t tell me, which hurts, but at least it’s contact with someone in the family)
DH wants me to challenge brother, he feels brother encouraged our daughter to ‘rebel’ . I think more division won’t help - if DD does want to get in contact she’s more likely to do so with a family that gets on. I think if brother is playing games the best thing to do is not be bothered.
I can ask brother about DD. so far we have skirted around the subject - brother is super casual, says he hasn’t seen her recently. he doesn’t seem to get, or dismisses, how much hurt and chaos DD has caused.
DH thinks I’m letting brother off the hook, and is cross with me.
now it feels like he wants me to choose between him and my brother, so between the two of them it’s horrible.
wwyd ?

why don’t your daughter want to see you ? They both sound hard work

Hard to say without knowing what your dd’s problem is. But on the surface you’re all too enmeshed if your brother has had that much impact on your dh. They’re adults. They can sort that out. You concentrate on yourself and rebuilding with your daughter.

I find it strange the daughter sees your brother but not her own mum, why don’t the two of you see each other? Have any of you asked your daughter and then actually listen?

It usually takes something pretty drastic for a child to be nc with both parents. You've dismissed this entirely by saying, how much hurt and chaos DD has caused.
Something isn't right here.

Do you mean your daughter is NC with you and your DH (her dad?) if so, why?

Your DH sounds like hard work. Does he always have unreasonable expectations of people? Is there a reason his voice doesn’t work when addressing your brother?

I think it would be really interesting to hear your daughter and brother’s sides on this one.

What part did you and your DH play in all this? You gloss over that.

Sounds like you and your DH are the issue if your poor teenage child felt the need to cut you off entirely.

Is your husband very very controlling and so can’t take a joke at all and sees your brothers cheekiness as an assault on his ego? Perhaps?

Our daughter has gone no contact, (now19) but I know she still sees my brother sometimes ( which he doesn’t tell me, which hurts)

come again?

How much hurt and chaos your 19 year old DD has caused?

op your thread is all over the place and makes squat all sense

I feel like the reason why your daughter has gone no contact will turn out to be incredibly relevant here.

It’s not for your brother to break a confidence by discussing your no-contact daughter with you.
Ypu should look at why your Dd is no contact , and then go from there. What caused the rift and how do you fix it?

Why is your DD no contact with you and her dad? I feel that's the main issue here. Not whether or not she sees your brother.

She hasn’t though

she still sees her uncle

all very very odd

She's no contact with her parents, not her uncle.

The OP's husband has no relationship with his daughter and a bad relationship with his brother in law.

Is he the common denominator?

Your brother sounds like he is enjoying the drama. I would go no contact with your brother. He is a troublemaker.

Your daughter has cut you out of her life and the thing you’re most concerned about is that your DH and brother don’t get on?

Thanks. Sorry to confuse, I’m trying to be brief- obviously there’s masses of detail and emotions involved and if I sound all over the place, it’s because I am, which is why I’m here, I’m hoping for some clarity on how to deal with the situation.
I thought I had a good relationship with DD, she met someone who I feel love bombed her and then DD started to lie and get besotted, and stopped seeing her best friends, or talk to us. I feel that she was of an age to seek independence and it was encouraged by her partner.

I rather think my brother enjoys causing disruption- hes super charming and enjoys winning people over, even total strangers. he’s now encouraging our teen DS to rebel. I get confused when I’m around him - e.g he said to me in front of DS did I like boats would I like a boat, and when I said yes, he turned to DS and said, ‘I much prefer cars don’t you?’ So it’s little things that are hard to spot, and sound mad/ over sensitive written out.

i think DH gets frustrated with him - and me for not seeing the games brother is playing, and then perhaps brother enjoys seeing this and making out DH is awful. I’m then in the middle.

im concerned they don’t get on because my brother can relay whatever he likes to my DD about us.

my main thing is my DD. It seems my brother can talk to her, so how to approach this? He is visiting for a few days so I need to use the opportunity I guess. But he will dismiss the seriousness of the situation and say ‘she’d have left home anyway’. When I tried to explain the massive effect it’s had on DS, DH and me, and how I’m now nervous around DS as I’m terrified of losing him too, he dismisses what I’m saying.
i also wonder if he enjoys the power of having contact with DD. . Or maybe I’m being awful. I doubt my own thoughts now.

Edited to try and make this read logically!

Op your brother sounds like he is causing severe problems in all of your relationships. It is time to press pause on that relationship and take a step backwards.

You are married, your loyalty is to your husband. Why are you allowing him to be disrespected?

As for your dd, you should not be relying on your brother and his agenda, and second hand information.

Ask your dd to join you and dh for family counselling and talk through the issues calmly. You don’t need your brother to act as a go between. Be open to listening to your child’s point of view, accept responsibility for some of the problems. Work harder building a relationship with your dd.

Your brother should not be meddling in your family. I suggest low contact arrangements with him for the foreseeable.

Why is your db coming to stay when your dh and db clearly do not get on? The whole thing feels confused and odd.

Why is this toxic man coming to stay?
Why have you allowed such toxicity to be so close to your family?

It is very strange that you feel put in the middle of your toxic brother and your husband, surely your loyalty should be to your husband?

Stop him coming to your home, cancel.
He likes causing hurt and upset and keeping him onside isn't an option.

Stopping him having a ringside seat to your family upset should be your priority.

He isn't a support.
He enjoys seeing your pain.

You cannot stop your children rebelling, pulling away.
Remain calm and accepting, letting them know you are there for them.

Get therapy and stop your brother visiting.

Your dd doesn’t want a relationship and you’re inviting a man, who your dh doesn’t like, who has caused (according to you) all sorts of drama into your home. That sounds like such a dysfunctional situation. Do you tend to do this with people who cause pain and upset to people you love? I’m not surprised that your dd has walked away if this is how her family has worked all her life. I can see how this could be one example of a much bigger family dynamic.

And please don’t probe your brother for information or try to involve him in communication with your dd. I am NC with my mum and her attempts to send friends to stalk me or get photos of my children or all sorts of crazy stuff do not make me think, oh here’s a perfectly emotionally stable person I want around my family. 😂

e.g he said to me in front of DS did I like boats would I like a boat, and when I said yes, he turned to DS and said, ‘I much prefer cars don’t you?’ So it’s little things that are hard to spot, and sound mad/ over sensitive written out.

if this is the best example you can give OP…

I actually think this is a good example because it's the insidious nature of what he does, playing mind games to destabilise and confuse.

It's very passive aggressive and seemingly unnecessary and can be brushed off as just a bit odd, but it's actually very calculated and gives the brother a sense power and control.

@Cleanbed your db sounds like a covert narcissist, I would be careful having him stay especially as you have been conditioned by his behaviour for years, as indicated by the confusion you experience when interacting with him.

He will be trying to cause even more trouble between you and your dh

Thank you For your good advice. malagese and feelingmuchbetter

he’s staying because he announced it in the evening and arrived the next day.

mindutopia there is a bigger family dynamic of course.
I found your post incredibly upsetting.
its not my business, but I hope you discussed stuff with your mum and tried to resolve things. The grief when your child goes no contact is insane - and it never ends, because they are not dead, there’s no resolution, you’ve been judged and hung with no debate and have just threads to cling on to. It’s incredibly isolating, confusing and endless. And yes, it takes a lot of strength and support to rebuild our and our sons life and not to want to try and resolve things, and I find that so harsh, that any attempt to reach out or chat things through makes me apparently emotionally unstable.
I don’t know, I just found the flippant emoji deeply upsetting.

After reading your replies, I guess I just don’t mention DD or try and explain, then there’s no drama to fuel whatever this is.
i guess I then just quietly don’t stay in contact with brother or DD. It’s incredibly hard and It just feels like there’s too many people going no contact in my family.
it can feel like DH is isolating me from my brother - you can see how confusing this all is.
id love to go to family therapy with DD.but I can’t - no contact. I’m accepting, and part of me is proud that she’s being independent, but no contact, really?
utterly depressed now.