My brother and my DH hate each other

[Cleanbed]

DH and my brother really dislike each other, always have. Brother likes to be top dog, and winds DH up. DH doesn’t like this.
Our daughter has gone no contact, (now19) but I know she still sees my brother sometimes ( which he doesn’t tell me, which hurts, but at least it’s contact with someone in the family)
DH wants me to challenge brother, he feels brother encouraged our daughter to ‘rebel’ . I think more division won’t help - if DD does want to get in contact she’s more likely to do so with a family that gets on. I think if brother is playing games the best thing to do is not be bothered.
I can ask brother about DD. so far we have skirted around the subject - brother is super casual, says he hasn’t seen her recently. he doesn’t seem to get, or dismisses, how much hurt and chaos DD has caused.
DH thinks I’m letting brother off the hook, and is cross with me.
now it feels like he wants me to choose between him and my brother, so between the two of them it’s horrible.
wwyd ?

Thank you knot nots for understanding. It seems innocuous, but it’s part of other beahbiours that I don’t know how to describe simply. . I’m off to research covert narcissism

Your brother sounds awful. I’d have absolutely nothing to do with him.

Are you British? You’re brother announced he was coming and just came?

Why not tell him to go away in a less polite way. Giving him such close contact with your DS is asking for trouble.

He just came because he likes to be rock and roll.
hes now being incredibly helpful mending the car while I work. He’s very charming and fun and it’s all very exhausting and I don’t know why.

Your DB is the issue here you should honestly sever ties. You acknowledge in your opening remarks he winds your DH up and is likely manipulating your children. Why are you allowing this?

You can't stop him "just coming" but you can say "We are far too busy, you can't stay, what the hell were you thinking of?"

I agree, your brother is the one who you need to cut ties with (how old is he out of interest) , very rude to just assume he can stay.

This is one of the many threads here with a simple, obvious answer, which is always the same. That answer is "tell them to fuck off". You can do it nicely, or you can do it just like that, but that's what you have to do. Nobody can do it for you.

He's used to getting his own way because everyone thinks he's so charming,cool, and "rock and roll", which is why your kids have been dazzled by him. You know he's a trouble causer though, you have to cool your relationship with him right down! No more coming to stay! Next time you message straight back "sorry we are far too busy for visitors ". And stop asking him about your dd, he will be loving that control!

Are you the poster who's dd met someone and they came out as transgender and moved in with her partner who was also transgender?
Either way this sounds like a very difficult situation. I hope at somepoint you can have a relationship again with your dd .

it can feel like DH is isolating me from my brother - you can see how confusing this all is.

With good reason. You should isolate yourself from your brother.
In a choice between brother and husband, always back your husband - and that is without even considering your brother's manipulation and stirring.

How come he is mending the car? Did you ask him to? Did you mention the car in conversation and he offered? How exactly did this come about?
Because he is doing it for two reasons: one, he likes doing it so it is for himself and not a favour to you, and/or two he is doing it to keep in your good books, to be 'the good person', so that no-one can criticise him for all the other stuff.

it’s all very exhausting and I don’t know why

You find it exhausting because he is trampling all over you, invading your space, messing with your emotions, draining your energy having to deal with him, and causing you anxiety about what will happen next - like wondering when will he go, what will DH say or do, will there be an argument, etc. You are on eggshells.

You have to stand up to your brother. Tell him he is not welcome in your house.

Regards your DD - let her alone, and hope that time will heal the rift.

You sound almost scared of your brother or at least the fallout of going against your brother - I assume there were some fucked up family dynamics at play growing up. It sounds like you could do with some therapy and cutting him out of your life or at the very least learning to stand your ground. It sounds like your husband’s got your back and can see your brother for what he is. Don’t push him DH away. And I suspect, if you told him you’re ready to stand up to your brother, he’d breathe a massive sigh of relief and stand by you.

I’m sorry to hear about your daughter. All I can advise is if you have any way of reaching out to her just to tell her you love her and you’re here for her when she’s ready, I would keep doing that on a regular basis even if she doesn’t respond or acknowledge.

strategy wise , what excatly does your dh hope for ? bottom line she is 19

Your brother is a head fuck. You’re inadvertently giving him control and he’s sucking it up.

Stop giving him power. So don’t discuss your DD or anything else that is private family business with him.

Agree with this. This man is like a cancer to your family's stability and happiness, you need to remove him. He seems very smooth and very dangerous, I would not be allowing your impressionable children to be bamboozled by him. Stop letting him stay over, or even in the door. How can you bear to have him in your house when you suspect he has caused the estrangement with your daughter?

OP, you are very unsure in your own mind whether it is DB who is playing games with you or DH who is isolating you from DB and possibly is at the root of your estrangement from DD. Or both. I’m sorry you are having such a tough time with it all, you explain very well how it is doing your head in.

It is impossible for us to tell whether the concerns about DD’s relationship were justified, whether your reaction to it as her parents was the wisest if so, or whether this language of her “rebelling” hints at an attempt on DH/your part to control her or prevent her from becoming an adult which may help explain her reaction.

I don’t think you need family therapy with any of them, I think you need some therapy for you to try to unpick what’s going on and to help you be sure of your ground.

Well thank you - good advice indeed.
thank you for explaining the car cleaning - no I didn’t ask he just took it upon himself.
he’s just casually announced that he might go see DD but he’s not sure if he can be bothered. He did this last time he was here, a year or so ago. He went to see her on the very last day - asking DS if he wanted to come - then going without him. Nasty.
and too late to be effective.
i I managed to be supremely not bothered ( I hope) say it’s up to you.
the drama continues.

thank you for all your advice - I was getting super confused. I’ll take a chill pill. brother is the one who says she’s rebelling and just being a teen.

I love her, always will and I get that she’s had enough of us, that’s fine. I guess it’s part of being a mum- that if you love someone you let them go.
Onwards!

My son was dying to move out snd we barely saw him, now 9 months later he is in and out a lot.
It is hard not to take it personally but the more you behave chill, reassuring them where you are if they need you and telling them to crack on and enjoy, the better I feel!
Pulling away is a part of growing up.
Long term better for a bit of ignoring you than living with you at 40.....well thats what I keep reminding myself.

Get some therapy, a safe place to vent is always good to tease out parenting stresses.

Mind yourself.

Keep the door open for your daughter and do whatever small things you can to rebuild a relationship with her. But don't go through your brother. I know that's easy to say when it might be the only news you have of her, but your brother is toxic and he is damaging all of your relationships. Cut him out of your life.

Thank you both.
and thanks all, for your help in helping me realize what was going on - DH is delighted!
Im not sure what happened but he said DD hadn’t got back to him so he hung out with us. He’s now gone home, and I had to really hold my tongue and not ask him to text/ask about DD.
he gave me the 5th degree though so i assume he will be reporting back to DD.
can only hope I got the right nuances for the questions.
thank you.,