Inappropriate work relationship, again!

[Daftpunk2]

Looking for a bit of advice or just maybe wanted to write things down somewhere to clear things up in my head. I don't have any close friends/family that I can speak to around this so often I'm just alone in my thoughts. I don't know if my feelings are valid or if it's something I should put to bed and move on from. For background, a couple of years ago my husband who I have two young children with was engaging in an inappropriate "work friendship". Nothing physical happened but there were messages and actions that crossed the line. Fast forward 2 years and it seems it's happening again. In the first occasion with the first woman, for a bit of context their "friendship" took place through my entire second pregnancy and for the first few months of me having our second child. I was gaslighted the entire time when I questioned things and made clear I was uncomfortable. I was told it was totally normal to have a friendship lwith the other sex and I just "don't get it coz I don't have any mates". It wasn't the other sex that was the issue as he has many friends who are female this just "felt" different. Breif examples before I even saw the messages are I bought him a birthday present when I was pregnant that I couldnt take part in which was a climbing outdoor activity. He took her (he says this is fine coz he also took my teenage relative with them).They met up in Manchester for a gig when he went with one of his friends. He said they had to go to the gig together and meet up beforehand as she was giving him a lift back. She turned up at one of his gigs (he's in a band) and blanked me the whole time and was slut dropping near the stage. He bought her a birthday present which I found really bizarre. I've never known a guy to buy his female colleague a birthday gift and he's never done that for anyone else before. This was done in secret ofcourse. I was told so many times it was just me a problem and no one else would find this all a bit weird. After months I knew my gut was telling me something was off so I looked at his messages and low and behold it was all crossing the line. Alot was on Snapchat which deletes so I never saw the true extent of it. There were reels sent to each other which are reels you'd share with a partner and just innaproroiate. And the odd comment telling her how good she looked in her suggestive insta pics. When it all came out he said he would never put me through those feelings again and it meant nothing etc etc. this was a really hard time for me as I was newly post partem, was juggling 2 small kids on my own as he was rarely present due to his mental health and I also was recovering from a bad birth injury. It shattered me at the time. I believed he wouldn't risk our relationship again and I tried to move on from it. fast forward two years later and I feel it is happening again. This time I'm again told by him it's totally normal and I've even been told its just part of life that men are like this with girls at work and I just am "one of the few loyal people" making it feel im just naive. So I'm asking would anyone else find these things disrespectful and crossing a line or am I clutching at straws because of what's happened before? There been reels shared- one saying "when she replies to your messages with kisses then suddenly starts replying one sentences" and a man looking gutted. He's deleted messages from her and then later archived her chat. He was messaging her constantly all through day asking what she's doing, etc etc just seemed odd when you're at home with your wife and kids to be messaging someone from work at the weekend asking about their weekend etc. I've seen messages sent to her where he's referred to her as his "work wife". There's a conversation where he's asked her if she would ever do only fans. A message sent saying "I judge from my insta algorithms you've been side hustling again -resting bitch face in lingerie" which I can only interpret as hinting at a pic he will have sent her of a woman in lingerie that he feels looks like her. I know if I confront him I'll be told it's banter or an inside joke between them I wouldn't get- that's his regular defence that makes me feel im losing it. Either way why would you message a work colleague about only fans and women in lingerie? I'm worried if I bring it up he will downplay it all and say it's all "banter" and I have issues for looking at his messages. Then all I've achieved is looking a fool myself. I appreciate i may be judged for looking at messages but when you've been in a situation where your gut has told you something, youve looked into it before and been validated, it's hard not to act on it again. Im just so fed up of feeling inferior as he seems to continue a pattern of wanting validation off other women. It also really humiliates me that these women must pitty the woman who's husband letches after them. Is it too much to ask for just some respect and not message other girls things that are just suggestive and a bit creepy. Or is this harmless conversation and am I being too naive/paranoid? I just expect more out of ten year marriage and two children. And I expect more respect after he betrayed my trust last tome. It just hurts a lot to think how hurt he saw me last time and to feel he's doing it again without a thought for me. I feel he just can't possibly care about my feelings or love me in that way else why would he continue to seek validation from other women in this way? Or is this something best left unmentioned and hope it doesn't escalate and im reading into things...

So.basically all through your second pregnancy and after the birth of your child your partner was in a relationship with another woman.
And now he has another woman on the go.
Honestly OP he is a serial cheat and he won't change. Why should he if you didn't finish things when you found about the cheating last time?
I don't know how you can even look at him when he has so little respect for you.

He won't change, get out.

Dump him, he has zero respect for you and you can't make him change. there are men out there who wouldn't dream of such sleazy behaviour.

You are not overreacting. I think you have hit the nail on the head. He may not be looking for an affair but he needs validation from these other women and invests his time and energy in them. He also clearly sexualises them. Which to be honest is so gross and creepy.

You haven’t mentioned that the women’s messages are particularly concerning so there is also the possibility that he is harassing them and his advances are unwanted. I agree that is very embarrassing, not only for him but also for you as his wife.

I wouldn’t be standing for it. Don’t make it about whether he is cheating because in his head he isn’t and he will fixate on that. Instead tell him him behaviour is creepy. If he argues the woman wants him to say stuff like then that is a whole other issue. But either way it’s disrespectful to you. If he disagrees then you clearly have incompatible boundaries. That’s enough to break up over.

The problem I have is he doesn't see it as cheating at all as hasn't been physical in fact he scoffs at the mere suggestion. I've told him it's an emotional affair and he just laughs saying that's not even a thing. I know it wasn't physical and I'm not saying that coz I'm totally naive and think it's anything to do with his loyalty for me, he just has far too much anxiety to physically go through with something he just obviously enjoys the thought and attention. Also these women were spoken for not sure they would do that. For me, I find the emotional elements of the communication so much more hurtful. It makes it feel theres actually feelings rather than just wanting to get his leg over. The conversations are like what you would send someone you are trying to date

A lot of posters on MN have said that emotional affairs, emotional cheating, is actually harder to cope with than a physical affair that doesn't involve feelings.
The point is he is, as you say, seeking validation from other women and hurting you- the mother of his children- in the process.
If he cared about you and respected you he would not be investing his emotions in other women.
He must have spent large chunks of your relationship emotionally, possibly physically because you don't know for sure, invested in other women.
This is who he is.
You have to decide if you want to share him or whether enough is enough.

I really feel for you OP but the fact that he pays such attention to women who are not his wife and goes away with them to day events regardless of who else is there and invites them personally to his gigs is just a step to far and emotional cheating. It’s also incredibly inappropriate to be flirting so intensely like this. So I’ve worked in an office and very rarely ever do married men get as close to the women to be buying them birthday presents or get together after work and the few times I’ve seen it they’ve always been having a ‘secret’ affair! Fair enough maybe your DP isn’t but it’s really awful he doesn’t respect t or love you enough to see how unhappy his behaviour makes you. It’s like it’s more important fir him to get his ego stroked than respect your wishes.

"men are like this with girls at work".

Not in my experience. Yes, there are married male colleagues who are good fun and engage in banter at work but messaging each other outside of work? Not a chance. For starters, your husband is a married man, these messages don't reflect well on either of them. Secondly, your husband should be careful because if these two fall out, she could potentially bring a sexual harassment claim against him.

From your OP I don't trust your husband, I think he's looking for a relationship with this "friend." And he's attempting to gaslight you.

So you rugsweep his cheating before and now he's cheating again.

He's dating other women. He is hitting on other women.

Yes, it is too much to expect a cheater to not cheat unless he's done a lot of work on why did he cheat before and what he plans to do to get his dopamine hits now besides hit on other women. But he hasn't done that. You listened to his words and ignored his actions and he's had no consequences at all.

This is same shit, different day.

I’ve even been told it’s just part of life that men are like this with girls from work.

Baloney. Not mature, monogamous, decent men. What a gaslighting player he is.

@Daftpunk2, your H is having another emotional affair fused with sexual energy. His priority is quenching his huge thirst for illicit gratification from other women.

He clearly learned nothing from his previous infidelity which crushed you. No remorse, empathy, protection of his fidelity, or concern for your well-being. Did he suffer any consequences when he was heavily investing in his girlfriend during your pregnancy/birth trauma, while treating you and your children like shit on his shoe?

He wants to keep cheating, so he is not going to admit crossing lines. His agenda is to scoff, downplay, and blame-shift by accusing you of overreacting and being unreasonable — gaslighting you, like before. I wonder how he would feel if you were acting ga-ga over an OM.

@Daftpunk2, please listen: He doesn’t have to agree that he is having an EA (he is) or that it is a thing (it is - ask any reputable counselor). He can scoff until the cows come home. He is crossing your boundaries again and that is all that matters. Get angry and tell him you aren’t tolerating his faithless disloyalty. Take action and set some sharp consequences by sending him away while you consider your options and consult a solicitor to be fully informed.

Personally, I would end the marriage. He has thrown his second chance back in your face, and is once again voraciously lapping up a new woman’s validation while attempting to dupe you. His self-serving entitlement and contempt are massive, and he’s not going to change. What an awful role model he is for the children.

@Daftpunk2, you’ll never have peace of mind if you stay with this man.

It doesn't matter if he accepts that he's cheating or not, he is. It's only up to you what you do about it.

What @MsDogLady said. I wouldn’t waste your energy trying to get him to agree with your version of the truth. You know what the truth is from your perspective - a husband who lies to you and doesn’t honour you. Choose your next steps based on that. I’d leave him too. You wouldn’t willingly choose into this relationship if you knew how sweet life can be on your own.

The only way to stop this is to divorce him.

He doesn’t respect you and constantly letches after other women to have his small ego stroked. It matters not one fig if he agrees with you or not! You know it to be true, that’s enough. Hold your head up high, look him in the eye, tell him he’s a disrespectful letch and kick him out. Show him you respect yourself; you and your children are worth more than this.

It doesnt matter what he thinks. It matters what you think.

’work wife’ would be enough to send me reeling never mind all the other bullshit . Hate that term, screams of inappropriateness and emotional affairs .

@Daftpunk2 he doesn’t love you he is a pig. He loves himself and his needs .
Yes it’s too much to ask respect from someone like him.
You allowed it the first time he has been given the green light.
This is your life. Give yourself the respect you deserve and leave him .
You are right about saying nothing . I’d just get my life sorted to leave or kick him out .
Don’t waste your years on him as if you accept this he will leave in 10 years for a younger model .

Slut dropping in front of the stage?! What sort of band is he in.

regardless it’s too much weird and dodgy lying from him.

you don’t need to be justified or get into arguments about what’s right or not. You don’t have the same values regarding how he should be acting with other people and respecting your relationship.

so you need to make a choice. He is clearly
not going to change.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me. And thank you to every single person who has taken time to reply. I'm shocked at how many people have messaged and I appreciate it beyond words. For years I've been made to feel this is somewhat normal and even made to feel I'm in the wrong. I've never spoke to anyone about this before as I'm a bit of a loner. So this has given me such a sense of freedom and validation for the first time to see people's words. Obviously it's very hard hitting to hear as it's not as easy to up and leave when you have young children and been together for ten years but I appreciate where everyone is coming from and I hear you. It's also so reassuring for people to interpret this all in the way i have.

I have gone through this and wanted to just say have you spoke about couples therapy ? It might be a way to get him to see why this affects you the way it does and vise versa ? In my world I consider this a betrayal verging on cheating but my partner does not . We are doing couples therapy as if we don’t then I have to look at the relationship for what it is.
you have to think how does this affect your mental health? And self worth? You deserve to be respected and your boundaries acknowledged. You are not being overally sensitive or being paranoid . His behaviour has consequences and he needs to realise this . Actions are a choice especially when messaging as he could just not send the message ?

good luck

The fact that he doesn't think that what he is doing is cheating is irrelevant. He is giving all his time and attention to another woman, who is getting the best of him while you and your children are getting the worst.

He doesn't care that you are upset. You can end your marriage for any reason and you should do so. You and your children are second best and that is no way to live.

He doesn’t respect you or value your family unit. He’s behaving like he’s single and doesn’t care about how this makes you feel. That’s clear from all the gaslighting.
Counselling may help but that’s unlikely.
I think the only way he’d realise the impact of this is when he’s divorced living in a crappy flat and parenting his kids on his own during his contact time.
Right now he has everything on his terms. He can do what he likes, gaslight you and you stay and keep the home and kids looked after.
This will only change if you do. You really need to leave him.

No, sweetheart. The problem you have is that you are letting him determine what is cheating.

You got over it last time (in his eyes) so it’s okay to not only do it again, but to push a little bit further on the boundaries because you’ll probably get over that too. Push push push.

The only way you stop it is by not getting over it. Stand firm and leave him.

He's a shitty person.

He won't change.

He's cheating on you.

Please get rid of him.

It's not normal, you're not in the wrong, he got away with it once so will keep doing it and gaslighting you. And if it hasn't already started into physical cheating, I guarantee it will/would if he ever got the chance.