Am I being gaslighted?

[Beaniebobbins]

Me and DH are having a rough time and when I try to talk about things or explain why something upsets or me or explain my reasons for being angry DH just dismisses it or says it didn’t happen or that he doesn’t remember any of it. So a few examples:

There was an incident where his friends kids damaged stuff in our house and told me to fuck off when I asked them to stop. I told him this at the time but he just said “it was only stuff”. This really upset me at the time because I was very upset that he didn’t have my back. It left a vivid impression on me and I still feel upset by his response to it. But when I brought this up recently he just said that those kids wouldn’t have done that. So is this calling me a liar. Or is this gaslighting? Or is this all just semantics and he’s just a massive twat?

And another time I said I didn’t want this friend and his kid to come round anymore. Partly because of the kids behaviour, partly because of how much DH and his friend were drinking when they came round. And in response to that he got angry said I couldn’t have one of my close friends round. So my friend hasn’t been round since. But when I said that to DH this week he denied it at said he would never say that. But again this is something that obviously upset me and has had a big impact on me and I haven’t had my friend round because I didn’t want to cause trouble and why would I do that for no reason? He says that I stopped him seeing his friend but that isn’t true because they still go drinking every few weeks just not in my house or around kids.

He says I am always in a bad mood and it makes life stressful for him but I don’t think I am always in a bad mood. Sometimes I am and I do have a temper and I hate myself when I shout at the kids but I try not to do it and I think I do it less than he does. But again when he says that I’m always in a bad mood it trivialises my feelings. Like me being in a bad mood because I’ve been on my own with the kids all day while he’s done nothing to help so I am stressed and tired then somehow all comes back in me for being a bad person who is always grumpy and miserable and making him stressed.

So is this gaslighting or just someone being stubborn and unwilling to see my point of view? Or does it even matter if it has a name because it all makes me feel like shit? And what do I even do about it anyway? Feeling vulnerable right now so please don’t be too harsh with me.

Gaslighting plus just behaving like a dick. Do you want to stay with him?

The fact he's just not willing to listen to your point of view, especially when you're upset shows just a basic lack of respect. They blame it on moaning or nagging, but that wouldn't exist without the behaviour. I'm in the same position. We're arguing constantly but refuses to even admit we're arguing so when I do delve deeper and explain why I'm upset he just denies it. Can't be arsed with the conflict or even just a resolution.

Sounds like he lacks emotional intelligence. It's like talking to a brick wall and expecting a decent answer. I'd write down everything you're feeling and thinking and read it back as if a friend wrote it for perspective. I'd also write a pros and cons and a plan for if you do split up. I'm going to do the same. X

I don’t know. I thought we were ok and just having normal ups and downs but I’m not so sure now. I’ve booked to speak to a solicitor because I think I need to have sort of idea of what my options are.

Thank you. This does sound like just what I’m going through. We are going to try counselling. He was very reluctant to do this with me even though he’s been going to counselling on his own (that was a bombshell to me). I don’t know what to expect from this. I am hoping that having a third party present will stop him just scoffing or saying “whatever” or “if you say so” whenever I say something he doesn’t want to hear but I don’t know. I’m so confused as to how he can have been to counselling but still come out saying I’m always in a bad mood as if anything is ever that simple. Like how can a grown man not understand that him lying on the sofa with a hangover while I run around after two kids is going to piss me off. I’m feeling a bit scared about the version of me he has described to the counsellor. I have never done counselling but I am confused as to why he doesn’t seem to be evaluating or considering his own contributions to my bad moods. I am worried that I’m going to go in there and just be told I’m horrible. If you take his version of events I sound abusive. If he really thinks that he’s always acting reasonably and then I just get pissed off or shout at him completely out of the blue for absolutely no reason that does make me sound awful, so I am a bit scared.

I wouldn't worry about him twisting the story to the counsellor, I've studied counselling and you're not allowed to have a bias opinion or even an opinion you're there to actively listen and help people express their feelings and get to the bottom of things. If a counsellor is behaving in a way where they would take somebody's side you'd need to report them. The fact you're scared of him twisting the story to suit him gives you the answer you're looking for I think. He sounds like he needs a reality check. X

Yes, that's gas lighting plus he also sounds like a massive twat.

I think it's good that you're going to see a solicitor now.

Also, why have you stopped your friend coming round? Do you get pissed together in front of the kids and do no child care while she's there too? If not, then it's not comparable to asking him not to have his friend over.

I think the solicitor will be a better use of your time than the counsellor.
Are you completely sure he is not abusive?
Asking because therapy with an abuser is not advised and the high level of control and gaslighting raises flags.

I doubt he has been to counselling on his own and even if he has that person has a skewed version of events.

Abuse is not a relationship problem, it's about power and control. Joint counselling is never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship and gaslighting is a form of pyschological abuse. You're with a master manipulator; many abusers are and they are adept at making it all out to be the other person's fault. For the above reasons do not go to any joint counselling sessions with him.

See the Solicitor instead re divorce, it will be a better use of both time and money.

You shouldn't be scared. You sound like you're walking on eggshells around him. The counsellor will pick up on this so please don't be worried about that x

Not all counsellors recognise abuse sadly and no decent counsellor would want to see these two for counselling in the same room.

OP would be better off seeing a solicitor. If counselling is to be at all considered she needs to go on her own.

Never go to a counsellor your partner/DH is seeing. This is not going to help.
Go to counselling on your own.
To be blunt, he’s a prick.
He doesn’t want to hear from you about anything. Your friend should still come to your home.
Your home and safety matter. Nobody should be telling you to F off in your own home.
He is not working as a team, he’s doing what he wants and you are compliant. Because he dismisses you.
You deserve far, far better.

It doesn't matter what you call it, gaslighting or something else. The fundamental issue is that he doesn't have your back, which means you will never feel safe and secure. There should be respect, kindness and consideration in any relationship. Do you think you'll ever get this from him? I doubt it as it would require a change in attitude equivalent to St. Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus.

Unless you are prepared to accept him as he is - which i would definitely not recommend!! - this will be your life forever. Go see that solicitor. And check out Wikivorce or Divorce for Dummies beforehand, so you can make best use of this appointment.

But how else do you end the cycle if you don't do counselling or have some third party or other mediation involved? We have kids so he will never be out of my life. Surely I need someone to help. Otherwise even if I leave it never ends, it will go on about child arrangements and payments. It will be endless "you never told me this" and "I never said that". Or me making a request for something for the kids and being flat told it's unreasonable.

You end the cycle by getting off the merry go around and leaving him to it. Counselling and mediation does not work with abusive types. This man is not amenable nor open to any reasoned argument; it is his way or no way as far as he is concerned. Look at his parents OP, chances are one or even worse both of them act the self same. He feels entitled to act like this towards you and feels he is doing nothing wrong here re you either. Such men also use the kids as weapons to further beat up the mother with as punishment for she leaving him because in his head he is the most perfect of specimens.

He would need years of therapy; this is inbuilt within his psyche and he is not amenable to therapy. Abusers always think it is someone else's fault, never their own. Find a Solicitor to deal with him; many are well versed in the ways of how abusive men operate. I would also advise you to not undertake any form of mediation with him.

Do consider asking Womens Aid and or the Rights of Women organisations for advice too.

You do all your communication in writing or through a co-parenting app with someone like this. You meticulously document.

Mediation might work for the factual stuff in a split, but joint counselling will just get twisted on you.

Having therapy yourself, leaving this situation, building your self esteem, learning how to put in place boundaries is life-changing.
Then you drop the rope.
Yes, you need assistance but you have to make the decision, based on your intuition, to say enough is enough.
You don’t want drunken men and abusive kids in your home. Friends should be there to be good company, end of.
I know it’s hard - hundreds of women on here have had threads with their journeys - but at some point you have to choose yourself and your wellbeing, and that of your DC.
Teach them how to lead a decent life.

Not just a dick, but a drunk dick.

Do you think he might have a drinking problem, OP? Or is it just with that one particular friend that he drinks too much? And I would also doubt the 'I'm having counselling' story, especially if it's news to you - did he, perhaps, say that he needed the counselling because of YOUR behaviour?

Because he's definitely gaslighting you and I would suspect that it's only the tip of the iceberg...

Why put up with him? He sounds awful.

THIS - plus this:

Having therapy yourself, leaving this situation, building your self esteem, learning how to put in place boundaries is life-changing.
Then you drop the rope.

As well as believing in yourself, shoring up your own self-worth, and building the future you want for yourself and your children.

Youre right. It will be endless.

Because that's who he is.
An abusive, headfucking, gaslighting prick.

Councillors can't fix that. They don't make assholes into good people.

Councilling can help if both parties want to change. He, doesn't and never will. He wants you exhausted, feeling like you can't do anything right, feeling like you are crazy and 'always overreacting'. He wants you broken.

That's not the sort of person you go to councilling with. He'll only use it to look for more ways to harm you.

You need to detach from him as much as possible and you need councilling to fight the idea that you need to keep changing, adapting and sacrificing in order to placate him. Because that's shit will not work. His sort do not want truce or compromise. Stop rolling over and showing him your belly hoping he will be merciful .

You are his enemy and he means you harm.

Get out of there and read books on how to coparent with a narcissist.

Think of it like Russia Vs the Ukraine. The Ukraine depreately wants peace. For a time it negotiated, hoping peace could be reached. But every time Russia says 'lets have a truce', and Ukraine almost thinks 'oh good, I can breathe for a bit', guess what, Russia was lying!

It's sniggering behind it's hand at Ukraine.
Knowing every time Ukraine drops it's guard, can posdibly be used to uppercut it right on the chin.

Ukraine keeps trying though, keeps giving it chances. Because it so wants the war to stop.

Russia has even pulled America (the councilor) in going 'we want peace, honest'. By saying everything it 'should' say. And now America is telling Ukraine 'rusia DOES want peace, you must give it another chance'.

Of course it doesn't want peace! If it wanted peace it wouldn't have started a war!

But just as you start to realise this, going to councilling and introducing and entirely new person to the set up, could cause you to be pulled back into 'maybe if I give it another chance ...'.

Do not do that.
Shore up your boundaries. Confer with allies. Prepare for a battle. There is no truce.

He'll only use (counselling) to look for more ways to harm you.

Absolutely

Plus what @Sodthesystem said re. coparenting with a narcissist and shoring up your boundaries and preparing for battle.

You need to go about this with a clear head, @Beaniebobbins and focus on your own best interests. And always, always remember: he is not your friend.

He is flat out denying things happened when you know they did. Either he is having severe memory issues or he is gaslighting you.

By the way, if there is ever any hint of abuse in a relationship, do not go to joint counselling. The abuser manipulates the counsellor into thinking the victim is causing the problems (you'd think a trained counsellor would look out for that, but they often miss it).

There is another thing, but I’ve always been too ashamed to share it with anyone, even my closest friends. Second DC was a planned home birth because we don’t have family nearby to look after 1st DC while I was having baby but a friend had offered help if we needed it. Baby was born around 2am but placenta did not deliver so I needed to go to hospital anyway. I asked DH to come with me but he said he couldn’t leave DC1, I asked him to call his friend but he said he didn’t want to bother them so I went on my own. But then he never called or messaged or anything. There was no message to check I was Ok. I messaged him around 7am to ask when he was coming to the hospital because DC1 would be at nursery. I told him I was in the HDU. He said he didn’t know where that was so I would have to find out because he didn’t know where that was. He finally turned up around 3pm with DC1. I’ve never known what to make of this. It’s troubled me for years. I felt ashamed and humiliated and I don’t know why. He says he didn’t realise how ill I was but I did tell him I was in HDU and I always just felt that I shouldn’t have to nearly die for him to care should I? Just going through a lot of inner turmoil now. I am waiting for talking therapy but it’s a bit of a wait and not sure if I’m overthinking or over reacting or even what to do next.