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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do I (nicely!) tell my mum to back off?

39 replies

Youcannotbeserious · 16/05/2008 07:39

I'm 39 weeks PG and was due to have my baby next weekend (El. CS). My mother annouced that she intends to fly down to see me.

I didn't / don't want her to, but DH talked me around and said it would be OK for a few hours so I said OK.

She then got into a stress because me next door neighbour (FFS!!!!) told her a different date (he was talking about the birth of his own baby!!!) and I had to 'prove' I was due to have my baby on the date I told her.

Anyway, went to see my consultant yesterday and things are happening a bit faster than we thought, so I'm now looking at going in this weekend...

My mother is convinced I'm doing this to stop her being there. I can't seem to get through to her than I'm really not, that actually this has nothing to do with her and I'm just thinking of my baby.

I'm waiting to hear back from the consultant this morning about timings for the weekend and my mother has made it clear she'll be calling me just before lunch time to find out what's happening.

I wouldn't mind her being about if she'd just calm down about things, but she's got a bl**dy opinion about everything and can really be quite nasty to people.

She has a need to control everything around her (she already controls pretty much every aspect of my sister's life) and I appreciate that she wants to help, but I'm not doing this to 'get' to her....

Sorry, just need to rant!

OP posts:
gagarin · 16/05/2008 07:52

Don't argue with her - you'll never convince her and it'll lead to frustration on both sides.

Try to develop a way of communicating what the effect of her behaviou is on you.

The classic "when you say that (eg you think I'm doing this on purpose)it makes me feel like this (eg upset/hurt/angry)" is sometimes a good way to go.

It helps you explain your feelings but leaves you wiht the ability to just walk away when you've said your piece!

Youcannotbeserious · 16/05/2008 07:59

Thanks. I did make her apologise for basically calling me a liar over the original date (I had to show her my notes before she'd believe me over my next door neighbour, FFS!!) but she has this warped sense that she has to do this to protect me (from what????) and so anything she does is OK.... IYSWIM

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/05/2008 08:05

Actually she does not want to "help" you at all. Its also about her wanting to be the centre of everything hence the drama queen act. This is also about power and control. Controlling behaviours as well often stem from a deep seated anxiety. BTW you have done nothing to cause this within her, its likely as a result of her own childhood issues.

You have seen what has happened to your sister and without action on your part (DH and you need to impose firm boundaries on your Mother) your Mother will end up doing the same to you and any children you have. This controlling behaviour is abusive in nature.

Would suggest you at some point read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward as there is a chpater in there on controlling parents. Would also suggest you visit the "Stately Homes" thread and perhaps cut and paste your post there. There are other women on there with controlling mothers who have acted very similarly to how your own Mother is acting.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/05/2008 08:06

Well she also does not see you as "capable" even though you are now an adult. In her mind you are still five years of age hence her overriding need to "protect" you.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/05/2008 08:10

YCBS

You don't mention your Dad in your post - what does he make of her controlling behaviours?. Often such men are "bystanders" and although they can see what is exactly going on they do nothing to prevent it (to give their own selves a quiet life).

WanderingTrolley · 16/05/2008 08:12

I know she's your mum,but she sounds like she's being a nightmare over this.
I would be inclined to let her work herself up into a tizzy and refuse to come at all. She is the last thing you'll need with a new baby there. Wait till the baby is a couple of months old, then invite her.
Sorry.

Pheebe · 16/05/2008 08:17

..hence her overriding need to "protect" you

Yes, how awful of her, how dare she!!!

There's a dreadful tendency on MN to view all 'controlling' mothers as evil. Its their behaviour that's unhealthy for you not them and its important to remember that. Her driving force is a positive one...a need to protect and support you. You can't change her behaviour but you can develop a healthy independence from her and it can be done without nastiness and confrontation. Decide your boundaries and stick to them. DON'T prove yourself to her. In the case you give if she's insistent about that date you could say well if thats what you believe I can't change that and get on with your own life. Taking this approach means they have to take responsibility for their own behaviour.

HTH and it is a little more constructive than dismissing her as 'abusive' and 'toxic'

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/05/2008 08:27

Pheebe

How else would the poster's mother be described if not "toxic"?. Such people are bad to be around.

Protecting is one thing; being overprotective and controlling is quite another.

I would certainly agree with you about setting boundaries. The original poster's mother is not being protective at all - what this lady wants to do is to come in and take over. Her overriding need to control supercedes any other consideration.

Controlling behaviours are unhealthy for all concerned; not just the unfortunate person on the receiving end. Such abuse (and controlling behaviour is abusive because it completely overrides the other person's will) can and does cut across generations.

Pheebe · 16/05/2008 09:04

Hi Attila

I have a fundamental problem with the term toxic in that I think its abusive in itself and certainly not helpful or constructive as it creates an aggressor-victim perception allowing people to passively accept that as its not their fault they can't do anything about it. I'm certainly not claiming that controlling behaviour is healthy or acceptable, certainly not. My point is one of trying to understand where that behaviour comes from and accepting that you can't change another persons behaviour only your own response to it.

As with so much in life 'controlling' behaviour is on a spectrum. As parents of young children we are and should be 100% controlling and this should tail off over the years as our kids grow and gain their independence. For some parents this process is incredibly difficult. My view is that its unhelpful to leap in and label someone as 'toxic' based on one persons views. Much more constructive to offer ways of dealing with the situation without fueling an already highly emotive interaction.

Hence my suggestion that in the OPs situation at the moment I would simply be telling mum whats happening and letting her deal with it in her own way and would not respond to the controlling behaviour or attempt to justify any decision her and her DH make.

Youcannotbeserious · 16/05/2008 10:00

Thanks... Just to reply to some of the points raised:

  1. My mothers need to protect me most certainly stems from the belief I'm somehow not capable. This is a common theme. She is convinced that if she doesn't stand up for me, nobody will. She is convinced I'm unable to speak for myself.
  1. My dad is a classic bystander. Knows just what she's like, doesn't say anything but, by default, agrees with her. My sister is the same.
  1. Yes, her issues stem from her childhood and (more relevantly) from her own experiences giving birth. I know why she is like she is.
  1. I don't think she's toxic. She is absolutely driven by the need to do good. I absolutely appreciate that. the problem stems from what she believes I need and what I actually need / want.

I don't want to cut her out of my life. I just need to be able to explain that she's actually adding to the pressure not helping right now.

OP posts:
otter1980 · 16/05/2008 10:17

YCBS - if she isnt likely to listen to you how about asking DP to say something quietly to her about it stressing you out? it could be that she doesnt realise what shes doing?

When we told my Dad he got really intense and stressy (8 weeks pregnant and he was talking about schools and trying to put pressure on me and DP to get married before baby born, suggesting he came to scans etc with me instead of DP...) He rung one night and started carrying on, I told him that he was stressing me out and DP did mention it when we went over (in a subtle way). It does mean that hes backed off massively. For my Dad its his way of trying to overcompensate for past (long story!) but it could be that by standing up to her (even if it puts her nose out for a little bit) she'll realise you're an adult?

If that fails, set chocolate dog on her!!

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/05/2008 10:34

YCBS

Your Mother's love is conditional and is driven by a need a control.

You're still trying to earn your mother's approval. You want her to love you, and you're afraid that if you don't do what she says-and listen to every word she speaks-she won't love you. Why do you have that fear?. Because she has proven thousands of times-more than that, really-that when you don't let her control you, she doesn't love you.

If you want your life to change, you have to face up to what your mother's behaviour means. Real Love is caring about the happiness of another person without any concern for what we'll get in return. It's unconditional. If I genuinely care about your happiness, I would never try to control you, and I would certainly not get disappointed or angry if you didn't do what I want.

Does your mother unconditionally love you? No, she doesn't. I know that's a hard thing to hear, but look at the evidence. She's interested in what she wants, not what you want. She gets angry at you when you don't do what she wants, which very clearly says to you, "I don't love you."

Now, in her defense, does she have some interest in your well-being? Sure-to some degree, she wants you to be happy, but every time she gets angry, she's telling you that what she wants is more important to her than what you want. She does not realize she's even doing this. She cares about you as much as she knows how, but she doesn't feel enough Real Love in her own life to be able to share any with you. She doesn't withhold her love from you. She simply can't give you what she doesn't have. She tries to control you because when you do what she wants, she feels accepted by you. She also feels a sense of power, which temporarily fills her emptiness in the absence of Real Love.

I know this is hard stuff to accept, but until you see the truth, it's not likely that you'll ever change the way you feel and behave, and that's what you really want, isn't it? When you understand that your mother isn't capable of loving you unconditionally, you can quit demanding it from her.

It will also help you a lot to realize that your frustration here is not a result of your mother's advice. It's a consequence of your expectations that she will love you. Then when she doesn't love you in the way you need-unconditionally-you're disappointed and angry. Your expectations of her love are understandable-who doesn't want their mother to love them-but they're also very unproductive.

Let's imagine that you're starving, and you come across a woman who's also starving. How smart would it be for you to demand from her the food you want? It would be ridiculous to demand from someone what they don't have, but in this case you keep demanding food from her. So who's the problem here, her or you? You are the problem, because you keep expecting from someone what they don't have. That's what you're doing with your mother. You don't realize that when you do what she wants, you're trying to control her affection for you just as much as she's trying to control you.

Again, it's understandable that you want your mother to love you, but but what you really need is not HER love. You need love from from anyone that has it. Real Love from any source is healing. You demand it from your mother because you unconsciously feel like she should love you-because, after all, she's your mother. But giving birth to you doesn't make her capable of unconditionally loving you. She just can't do that, which she's consistently proven for many years with her behavior.

So what can you do here? First, recognize three things: You have a profound need to be loved, she can't fill that need, and you insist that she do it anyway. When you really see that, much of your frustration will go away. How can you stay irritated at someone who can't behave differently? Then you can do something about your need to feel loved. Learn how you can find the Real Love you need. You can get it from people other than your mother, and when you have that most important ingredient to genuine happiness, you'll quit demanding it from your mother.

What can you do in the meantime, while you're learning to be loved by others? When she starts to give you advice you don't like, there are many things you can say, for example, "Mother, thanks for your advice, but I really do have that under control." If she persists, you can change the subject or tell her you have to go (you have other things to do). Or you can say, "Mom, as much as I love you, I really don't want to hear any more advice today (or hear about that particular subject)." You can stop acting like you're eight and simply tell her what you want.

As you see what's happening here, as you feel loved yourself, and as you clearly (not angrily) tell your mother what you want, your frustration will disappear - whether she changes her behaviour or not.

TheHedgeWitch · 16/05/2008 10:46

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themildmanneredjanitor · 16/05/2008 10:49

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lazarou · 16/05/2008 10:54

Have only read op. YCBS, it sounds pretty normal to me. Her intentions are good, but the way she handles things is a bit clumsy.
Avoid any confrontations and let her help you. She just sounds a bit highly strung.
Impending births seem to heighten everyones emotions.
Nothing else you have said suggests anything sinister may be going on.

Twiglett · 16/05/2008 10:59

You say this

"Mum, I love you and I can't wait to see you but I feel that the pressure you're putting on me at the moment to prove what is happening with this baby is stressful for me and the baby. I think we'll just go ahead with the birth as the consultant advises and have a couple of days settling in and then you stick with your original flight and can come help us out when DH goes back to work"

Twiglett · 16/05/2008 11:00

oh and then end on a positive close like "that'll be easier for everyone won't it?"

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/05/2008 11:03

Hi YCBS,

You make an excuse for your Mother by saying that she is driven by the need to do good. She is not driven by a need to do "good". She is driven by a misguided attempt to
control you. She has succeeded in controlling aspects of your sister's life; for your own sake and that of your family now do not let your Mum do the same to you.

You cannot fix her (don't go there please!!!); you can only change how you react to her behaviour.

Whether you want to call this behaviour toxic or not its up to you. I would call this controlling behaviour toxic (with apologies to Pheebe). Look, we all mess up with our children and that in itself does no long term harm. There is a vast chasm between a mistake that does no long term harm and parents who emotionally neglect and give love conditionally through their childhoods. This has a marked effect on these now adults. The very people who were supposed to look after you properly have let you down.

I am not advocating you cut her out of your life at all and have not suggested this but you need to change how you react to her. Distance is key along with caller identity. Both your husband and yourself need to set her firm boundaries.

Thought your Dad was a bystander in all this - people who come from dysfunctional families often have set roles. Would not let him off the hook either as he is also part of the problem. He has not tried to curb her controlling ways has he?. He has acted in his own self interest.

Youcannotbeserious · 16/05/2008 11:03

Otter - the Chocolate dog is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard!!!!

He absolutely adores his granny (and his grandad!) and is actually there with them right now, as I wanted to make sure he was settled in case I did need to go into hospital early.

attila - thanks for your post. I appreciate that I asked for advice and you gave me your thoughts, but I don't think my mother doesn't love me or that it's about control. I think what you wrote might have been true about her relationship with her mother (my gran)

As I said, I don't think my mum is toxic. She's just got a fixed idea of what's best for me and doesn't realise that that's not the case.

OP posts:
zippitippitoes · 16/05/2008 11:04

stop worrying

i have tried a few ways of expressing what you should say but im not good at that either twigs sounds good

i think i would end up saying mum i love you but i think we just need to see you after the weekend when we have the baby and we will be less stressed hahahahahahah

otter1980 · 16/05/2008 11:09

YCBS - ask for her to help by stopping chocolate dog 'losing' leads? maybe he can lick her to death?

seriously - from what you say to attila it could be that your mum is trying to be a 'better' mum to you that hers was to her and getting it a bit mixed up. May be easier to tell her on the phone as its less confrontational and less likely to be taken wrongly than email etc? (or you can go down the ottery wuss route and make DP deal with it - which Im doing when it comes to visitors)

Pheebe · 16/05/2008 11:12

Attila

I thought you had a point to start with and perhaps a useful discussion could come out of this. I see now you are determined to label all mothers as controlling and abusive if they should dare to care about their children. You fail to acknowledge the individual nature of all human interactions and that your experiences are not necessarily applicable to those of others. Parent-child relationships are incredibly complex. Some are driven by an irrational need to control and an unwavering belief that the parent knows best - these are unhealthy and need to be addressed or ended. Most however are driven my a need to care for and protect, this is a positive driver that should be acknowledged as such and cherished. The individual should of course not be allowed to perpetuate the controlling behaviour and it is the responsibility of the 'adultchild' to acknowledge their complicity in perpetuating that behaviour and to change their response to it (back to my point that you cannot changes other peoples behaviour only your response to it) - be that in a positive way or by removing themselves from the relationship. This is not about blame or fault but about moving forward in a positive way.

As a mum to 2 young boys I am very controlling at present...is that toxic...I don't believe so as I am enabling my sons to learn about the world within a 'safe' context. As they get older I will HAVE to learn to let go and let them explore and make their own mistakes, indeed I am already doing so with my older son who is 3 and likes to thrown himself off furniture! Some parents find this process incredibly difficult and need help to do so. That IS NOT ABUSE in the accepted sense of the word but at the same time is not healthy and should not be allowed to continue.

Attila, I really believe you need to explore your own issues before so assertively attempting to impose your view of the world onto other peoples relationships. The aggressiveness with which you put your point is almost bullying in itself. I do hope you find some resolution for your own issues.

Pheebe · 16/05/2008 11:17

Attila

My post took so long to write I see we cross posted! I also see you are saying much the same as me but perhaps with a differnt view of the drivers behind parent-child interactions. I prefer to assume the positive before offering advice and perhaps thats where we differ.

OP, sorry if I've hijacked your thread somewhat but I hope the discussion has perhaps given you a different perspective on 'toxic' relationships

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/05/2008 11:21

Hi Pheebe,

I do agree with a lot of what you say. Controlling behaviour is however damaging (lets not use toxic!) if such behaviours shown by parents continue through to adulthood. These women do not let their children grow up and let their offspring take responsibility for their own lives often out of a sense of deeply rooted anxiety. Its out of a misguided attempt to protect them. This is not helping anyone. I have seen controlling behaviours and its grim for those on the receiving end of same.

Going back to the original poster's issue my counsel is to impose strict boundaries now. This in itself is not going to be easy for either party to do and to accept. I think you would also agree with that and you have suggested this also.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/05/2008 11:30

Hi Pheebe,

Re your comment:-
"I assume the positive before offering advice and perhaps thats where we differ"

I do tend to wade in with the counsel straight off!!.

If YCBS has been given more to think about with regards to her relationship with her Mother then all well and good.. We have agreed on the fundamental points of having distance and setting boundaries. YCBS needs different viewpoints and all views are valuable.

your fellow friendly MNer

Attila