All my friends have moved out of London

[AleaEim]

I’m from abroad, have lived here 10 years, in late 30’s now and recently had a baby. I’m finding making and losing friends so relentless now, when DH and I moved here first, we worked v hard to make friends and did well with that, as London is so transient there were always people coming and going but we always maintained a decent group of friends. Along comes the pandemic which seemed to create a mass exodus, 4 of our close couple friends all left in the sane month (they were all expats) then gradually more friends and even acquaintances completely left the country or moved back to their hometowns in the UK (v far north for example). DH can cope with a lack of friends, he games a few times a week and that’s his way of keeping in touch with his old friends. I don’t have this but I do speak to my friends back home quite a bit, for that I am grateful as they are my close friends. I have tried and tried to make friends in london since and it’s taken endless joining of running clubs/ yoga/ awkward Bumblebee BFF dates to meet anyone I gelled with. The friends I met since the pandemic have also left London and the friendships weren’t strong enough to survive long distance. I now have two friends in london, one lives 1 hour away from me so meeting is hard work and the other lives closer but is now moving outside London which would be 2.5hrs from where I live. We also have one couple friendship left (more so acquaintances) but they recently moved outside London and it takes hours to meet them too, they make low effort anyway, I am fed up of commuting long distances or only being able to meet in central london to socialise, it’s exhausting and not practical with a young baby. I’m actively joining mum groups, they are nice, but the conversations don’t really deviate from sleep schedules and pushchairs despite my efforts. I am trying to make friends with Londoners (we met quite a few in the NCT group) in the hope they won’t move but they are often too settled with their long term friends/ and are often busy with grandparents etc. I feel too available all the time tbh and it makes me feel lonely and desperate.

Has anyone else had these issues? How do you navigate transient Londoners ? It takes a toll on our marriage too as we depend on each other a bit too much and it really is ‘just us’ most of the time. Holidays like Easter/ Christmas feel v quiet.

I’ve lived in London my whole adult life, over 25yrs. It’s amazing when I look back over the friendship groups I’ve been involved in through that time. Most people have moved on as they went back home whether that be back to another town or another country entirely. I have a handful of lifelong friends that I made along the way and see as often as life allows.

I didn’t really make any “local” friends until I had my DCs. I met people at baby groups then the school gates. I feel very lucky that the best “mum” friends that I’ve made have all put down roots here. They (and I) were able to buy houses big enough for their families to grow in to. So no need to move somewhere cheaper.

if your DC is very young, OP, you’ve got plenty of prime opportunities to make new friends as they grow.

Yes I do work, unfortunately they are not a social bunch and all live really far away from
the office, some even
live two hour train ride seat.

I’m from London and doing the baby years good for making new friends. It was a bit all baby talk for a while as that’s such a new and intense learning curve, but some of those friendships got deeper and a few remained friends and / or occasional drinking buddies (son is now 21). Can you arrange to meet some other mum’s for an evening without the babies and have a ‘no-baby talk’ rule? You’ll get to know each other better then. I’m lucky in that I’ve had a couple of good neighbour friendships that turned into proper friendships too. I am fortunate though in that I already had a core group of friends that didn’t move out of London and didn’t need new ‘deep’ friendships. However I found with babies and small children, there are a few years where it’s important to have other same-stage parents as friends. So my advice is cultivate those friendships.

I’m a Londoner by birth, DH has lived here for years. All his friends have left London (there is a certain kind of person who believes that you shouldn’t bring children up in London) and he is pretty lonely (but also self-sufficient). I don’t have many friends here either, but 2 very good ones. I’m not very good at making friends though,

One thing that’s coming into view is nursery and school, and certainly as far as school is concerned, the majority of parents that you meet will have committed to the area, or at least to London. So things should improve then.

What are your colleagues like? Any friendships or opportunities (groups) there?

I understand this.

my DC are older, but I did find that I made a few nice friends at NCT. All but one moved away though. I now have a few local friends- school gate mums. I think people tend to stay in London once they’ve committed to primary school.

but I think it’s always going to be an issue in London.

Would you consider moving to another city? Or a smaller town in commuting distance from London?

the only issue is I think you swap one set of problems for another. I’ll probably get flamed for this, but I think people are a bit more set in their ways and less open to new people in small places, but if you moved in time for start of primary school you’d likely meet a nice group of people who are at a similar stage. But if you don’t get along with them, then there are fewer alternatives.

I always think anyone who says this about London doesn't live in London...

How so?

I agree. I did laugh a bit when I read these hobbies.

I found @lastoneleast pretty accurate in describing the lifestyle in London for a young family.

Why are they laughable? I'm interested to know.

We left London when DC was 18months. We needed more space and couldn't afford it in London. I think think there are 2 members of 15 from my NCT group who are still in London.
School will help as people are slightly less likely to move then. But London is London and it's always a challenge to keep friends.

I think it depends where you live. We were in London zone 3 when we first did NCT 8 years ago. Half of the couples are still there. We now live in zone 5 and people have actively moved from central London to this area. There is not the constant chat amongst friends about moving, everyone seems settled here.

In terms of meeting people, have you tried different hobby groups/ posting on fb to see if there are other mums of same aged dc who are keen to meet up?

Yeah it seems a common issue. I think if I moved, I’d just move home tbh. Makes more sense as I’d be switching from lemon to lime I think.

It must be tricky if you have no family or support network. We actually moved away from London and our support network when our children were small but managed to build up new friendships and support in our new home area via baby groups, NCT and eventually me returning to work. I personally think Londoners are unfriendly and there is a lack of community due to its size probably. The cost of housing doesn’t help. Personally I would be looking to move further out to a small town

@Cornishclio I heartily disagree with you. I find Londoners very friendly and helpful but I realise I’m biased as a native. Chances are that many people you meet are not Londoners and when there are a lot of people from different places they probably find it harder to settle and fit in. It is different if you come from here, I’ve still got lots of old school friends (we’re in our 60s!) and family as well as lots of local friends. It helps to stay in one place if you can, don’t disappear in every school holiday and give it time

@DavrosI was born in London myself but a lot of our friends moved away as did we. I still have family there but it no longer feels like home or a friendly place to live. Everyone rushes around, it is incredibly busy and noisy. Our remaining family all say there is not as much community spirit as we have down in the south west.

I am also from abroad and live in London. And I moved countries a few times in my life. Over the years - I eventually made friends in London that are still around - and it was a combination of - friends from work; friends I acquired as my kids were growing up - through nursery; kids' activities; schools; and friends from my country background via our community - most cultural groups have something - being it food, or concerts, or celebrations, where people meet.

It's a bit isolating when you have a baby. But it'll change, and you'll keep meeting other moms as your child grows up. And you won't always be talking about babies...

@Cornishclio I think there is a narrative pushed by the media that “everything is worse, everyone is selfish and doesn’t care about others, crime is worse” etc etc. I really don’t find that, I got offered a seat twice the other night at a gig but chose to dance instead. Not being 30 years old any more certainly colours things. You say your family are less happy so we have different experiences, both valid.

To the OP, I’ve got a few suggestions:

• find out if there is a residents’ association where you live, join it and read the news emails etc
• read the local newspaper
• listen to Radio London
• join your local Facebook page. NextDoor needs to be treated with caution though, it is full of moaners and scare mongering

i am old so these might sound silly to a young person but I’ve always done all these things and find they help me engage more with the local community. I volunteered with the residents’ association years ago, just looking after their noticeboard and swapping posters about local events. It didn’t take much time and I loved it. People often chatted to me while I was doing it, about 10 minutes a week. All these are available from home.

I really sympathise with you, even though my situation is different. I moved back to my rural area in Wales a few years ago and the problem here is the opposite. I'm not saying that you wouldn’t be happier if you moved elsewhere, but it won't necessarily solve your problem as I have experience of both scenarios.

The community in the rest of the U.K isn't as transient as cities, which does help to provide some social stability, but that stability can also feel very inflexible and stagnant, depending on where you go. People do move in and out, but the people who've lived here form childhood get incredibly entrenched into their existing social groups. They don't like taking social risks, such as inviting a new person they've met into a social event with their existing friend group.

Therefore it feels impossible to break into the organic social scene, as opposed to more artificial /Meet-Up type gatherings. And that's a significant, but totally separate issue to the important one that @Marchitectmummy displays so well, which is that women beyond 30 simply don't have the time for new friends, especially if they have kids.

Like you, over the years, I've found meetups quite fruitless and pointless (and I did this a large city). People think they'd be filled with people open to friendship, but I've found that the reality is that -

50% have come long to just to their hobby and go home
30% are socially awkward, have possible mental health issues, or are just strange (and I have no patience left anymore to nurture such people or do the emotional / social heavy-lifting of keeping the conversations going)
20% are there hoping to make new friends....but obviously your personalities may not be compatible, so it's not a given that you will.

Before you move, just thought I'd share that I've learnt that repetition in key (especially if you want to befriend Brits). Turning up up to 5 times to Meet-Up is not enough. A lot of people seem quite socially fearful and unable to handle rejection, or rejecting other people, so they need to build a familiar with your face first. I'm afraid this has to be a minimum of 5 separate times, at the very least before they feel that familiarity, never mind think about having a proper conversation.

socialising in London takes so much effort, not only financial effort but time, you’re talking an hour commute at best to just meet for a coffee/ drink etc

This is one of my main annoyances with regards to living in such a rural area (think National Park) 😄Honestly, it's a minimum of a 30 min - 1 hr drive to most hobby groups or interesting event.

I think the main difference with a of hobby / social groups though is that you have a vastly superior range of groups in number and variety, whilst my drive will be a lot more pleasant & beautiful.

Sounds drastic but have you considered moving jobs? I work for a big firm and though loads of people commute or fly into the London office I’m invited to about 3 dinners/drinks a week!

Agree with @Davros I don't recognise these unfriendly Londoners claims! I'm in SE London though, which I think is far more friendly and community minded than some other parts of London

OP would you consider moving neighbourhoods? There really can be a big difference

Ah OP I remember this stage. 90% of my NCT group had moved out by the end of maternity leave! I found other baby groups (playgroups music class etc) useless for making friends, everyone seemed to have come with someone they knew already.

We made most of our current friends through DCs’ nursery school and primary school. That’s when you find the London “stayers”, especially school. Hang in there.

I have noticed that the “stayers” often have at least one half of the couple with a London background or a non UK background. So less likely to move “back to their home town/county”. I have also noticed that, as a PP says, they tend to have enough money to be able to buy a nice flat/house, afford catchment of good school or private school etc. Lots in City jobs. Not that you can exactly choose your prospective friends on these factors… but let’s say if you keep making friends with creatives or those with a strong family connection back in X county you may find they keep moving out…

@dreamingbohemian @Davros

I haven't lived in London (although visit a few times a year). I'm from a very rural area comparatively in North Wales.

When asking for directions, I've not found Londoners to be particularly unfriendly or hostile. They're just average. No different to Manchester, where I've worked before.

However, I've noticed a significant difference in attitude when it comes to shops & cafes. There is no smile, no engagement, nothing. I definitely don't expect a warm conversation or for anyone to be interested in me, but it's not nice for people to be looked at as if they're dirt with legs either.

On my last visit, the fact that I was Welsh was clearly some kind of joke or point of mockery between staff in one shop (I have a very toned down accent, so it couldn't have been that).

So interesting and you hit the nail on the head, I am Irish, we are known for being friendly and I take it for granted that i find it easy to just talk to strangers, it really is an invaluable skill. It’s a shame that it’s not like this here in the UK, I had no idea. I used to live in Canada and I found people so outgoing it was great but also they were more direct than the Irish so that can be intimidating. I feel slightly better this week, got out and met the friends I do have as I should nurture those.

Ah I’m NHS and in training at the moment so it’s not possible. We are all a bit poor to socialise in that way but I have met some nice people, they just live far out of london or they are at different life stages, for example I met a lovely girl my age at my placement but she’s got three kids and lives 1 hour north of london. I’m a fish out of water it seems but I’ll keep trying. Or maybe I’ll meet my friends when I stop trying like I did in the past.