Brother being awful

[Bobbie1976]

Hi I'm in my forties with a brother the same but a couple of years younger. We have lost our folks and I have always done my best to be supportive of him, protect him, be there for him etc and he is good to me most of the time, helping me financially etc and I do love him very much. He's the only close relative I have left.

He is a reformed alcoholic, and has a stressful job - self employed. We lost our Dad who was in the same industry when he was in his early 50's. I see my brother going through an immense amount of stress and I'm afraid he will die young as well - the fact he is a smoker doesn't help.

When I went to visit him recently, I was horrified by the mess of his home. It is literally a pig sty downstairs, so dirty that I can't even bear to walk inside. I have a very serious aversion against cigarettes and seeing them lying on the ground is literally one of the most off putting things for me. It gives me the willies.

Last month, due to him not answering his phone over the course of a few days, I started to panic, and thought he had perhaps fallen off the wagon which is something I would never really want to witness again. What my Mum and I went through with him was horrendous - seeing him in such a bad way - but he does not like it being brought up now, even if I say I'm only getting in touch because I was worried about you. When I eventually did get hold of him, he asked me why I was bothering him, turned it around and said 'are YOU ok?' making me sound like I was crazy for caring and when I said 'I was just worried because this is how you went when you were really sick', he lost his temper and said 'Are you at work?' I said 'yes' and he said 'why don't you take that middle finger that you type with, stick it right up your asshole and swivel on it, you effing bitch'.

I texted him to say I didn't mean any offence, but he messaged back, 'yes you did DEAR SISTER....' After this we weren't in touch for at least a month. Being the eldest I surprised him at a very important gig he was having for his band and he seemed pleased, but no apology or anything. I arranged for his best mate to be there too.

Fast forward to yesterday and I could see that 'the eyes' were coming back - by that I mean when his whole demeanour seems to change. He often makes reference to not getting enough sleep but it seemed different - definitely not alcohol, but like a whole different personality. We were going to visit my uncle who had been ill - quite a car ride away and the entire time, he was so nasty to me.

I told him that I felt he was in danger of becoming ill due to the stress of the job, that he was a smoker and that I wondered how he would feel about getting a job with a regular income that means he wouldn't be so stressed. I told him I just didn't want him to die and that was my only fear.

But he launched into a whole shpeel about how 'if I die you're just worried you won't be able to borrow money anymore....and why don't you give up what you love doing and get a different job...and do you understand? do you understand? do you understand?' repeatedly....'I'm trying to get through to you...tell me you understand..'

I reluctantly agreed to keep the peace but he wouldn't let up. Then when I reiterated I was just worried as men die younger and he's a smoker he said 'You will die before me...I'm in so much better shape than you are!'

I'm a curvy woman and I admit I have been very badly depressed and have gained a little weight. I am very very sensitive about it as I am not long out of a relationship where I was made to feel not good enough due to this - and my brother knows this. I'm not morbidly obese or anything and I am trying to lose weight. But to throw that in my face?

To make matters worse, when we got inside I asked my uncle who is the executor of my Mum's will, if he knew if her apartment on the coast was still there. She (I thought) owned it with her friend who was also horrible to me, interfered with my family relationships and seemed to think she was another parent. I have distanced myself from her, for my own health but in front of my uncle my brother said 'if you want to know about the apartment, all you need to do is say one word to her'. I said 'what?' and he said 'SORRY'. Neglecting how this woman treated me for 20 years and the fact that she still sniffs around my brother to get him on side. I was absolutely cut to the bone.

This is the first time I have not wanted to even try to see him or stay in touch. I have done my utmost to help him, even driving across the country to 'rescue' him when he almost died of alcoholism. I watched him hurt my Mum with his words, and now he's doing it to me. I don't feel I deserve it, I don't know. On top of losing the person I thought I'd spend my life with after he told me I was his soulmate only to dump me within a week and behave brutally to me, I'm starting to think this is my lot in life. Everyone else seems to be able to get everything right. I have no one to talk to, if I try to talk to friends they change the subject, everything has to be happy happy all the time.

Sorry this is so long but I'd love to hear what others think

Thank you x

He is not interested in you and you are being needy. You need to value yourself and get your self respect back and you are enabling his abuse as you keep going back for more.. He will never be what you want him to be so leave him alone. Your weight bothers you, do something about it. I assume your mother has died and your uncle is executor, are you also at odds with your uncle? if you have been left any money from the apartment you should get it but it seems youbwere at idds with your mothers friend who co owned it so it could be hers now.your brothers remarks don't seem hopeful about saying sorry to her. It is hard not being part of a family but it takes both sides and if one is not interested you can do nothing. You have to move on.,

God why bother with him . He’s nasty .

Stop bothering with him. He’s a grown man and if he wants to make stupid decisions then that’s his choice.

OP I’m an only child but I can empathise with much of your situation- particularly the mother’s asshole intrusive friend situation ❤️

To be blunt I’d go NC with your brother. Both my parents literally drank themselves to the grave - believe me you can’t Fh anything for these people apart from stand back and watch them self destruct.

if in the meantime your brother turns his life around and becomes a happy sober person then that’s a massive plus for him 👍

I could have written your post. My Db was an alcoholic, didn’t take care of himself, was rude and abusive , was separated from his wife and dc. He was physically deteriorating but wouldn’t get help. To be fair he wasn’t always abusive to me and our dm but it was pretty often. I always felt that if I walked away he would have no one left. In the end I had counselling and they helped me see that I couldn’t save him and I eventually was able to see him without feeling responsible for him. Sadly he died ( alcohol related). I feel for you op. It’s really hard to just walk away from a brother . Wishing you all the best

Will address your points.

I am late diagnosed ADHD so I think that might have something to do with my spiralling thoughts although I do my best to be a good friend and good person. My Mum died a few years ago and none of my friends have visited bar the day she died - I always have to go to them even though they all drive.

I am not trying to deliberately offend my brother. My Mum and I went through a period when he was living away and weeks would go by without him answering his phone. When he did, he was short and nasty. Turns out he was drunk all the time and close to death. With money given to us by my uncle, I went to a different country to physically bring him home without being asked. I didn't want him to die. I would never deliberately offend him, but when you see a similar pattern of behaviour it's hard not to fret.

I don't do anything nice for him because I'm the eldest. I feel extra responsible yes, but I do things for him out of wanting to - but quite often they aren't appreciated. For example, I bought tickets to a show he is a fan of, but he threw the head up in the middle of it and said 'I can't stay here!' and made me take him home - tickets were £75 each. I went to his gig because I wanted to surprise him and support him.

He has helped me with money, which I pay back. He gave me a couple of hundred at Christmas and when I tried to pay him back he said he didn't need it and it was a gift.

I worry about his smoking because almost all of my family have died from smoking related illnesses. The uncle I speak of had a massive heart attack in the middle of Feb and has smoked his whole life.

My Mum's friend drove a wedge between me and my Mum - I have to add my Mum was NOT abusive but completely gave in to this overbearing woman. She was constantly touching me and buying me gifts and telling me she loved me. I could not go anywhere with my Mum but she would either show up, or if we were on holiday she would have our dog so we had no choice but to see her immediately afterwards. She would walk into our home on Christmas Eve unannounced, and stay for hours, and when my brother was at his worst (even though her own sister was dying) she told me he was 'putting her through hell'(she rescued him off a bus once drunk) and refused to step away when I told her it was my family. No matter what she did my Mum never spoke out for me except for telling her once 'my kids are not your kids'. When Mum died, she pinned me up against the fridge and said 'let me in...it's what your Mum would want'....and touched my face. It was horrible for me, but she's never wrong. She's a minister so hid behind that - was asked to do various family funerals, and more than one family member would comment on how uncomfortable it made them that she would kiss the coffin and break down at the altar over people she didn't even know.

My soulmate - I had feelings for this man for a long time, and let him know but at first he wasn't interested so I let him be. But in time he asked me out. I was thrilled and absolutely adored him. Thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread and he even told others how good I was to him and that I might be the one. This went on back and forth for over a year, each time I tried to get close to him (he's in his 50's) he ran away but in doing so, was very nasty. Sent me messages like 'I was drunk when I said that. You were only a fuck. I don't love you.' Then he would ask to come back, say he just got scared because no one had loved him like I did. He suggested moving to my Mum's room together but as soon as we did he ran for the hills. We worked together and he said in front of my bosses that I freaked him out and that again I was only a fuck and that he could never love me. I am still in bits over it and his treatment in work escalated to the point I had to leave. He started to hide from me in the work toilets and tell colleagues. The ONLY thing I did was to maintain politeness and I borrowed his coffee cup once when I forgot my own. This seemed to push him over the edge. I genuinely loved him but he said 'I can't cope with it'.

I'm not allowed to talk with my friends. When Mum died I had a range of 'well people are worse off' to complete abandonment and I didn't even talk about it that much. I asked a friend if I could talk to her as I was in turmoil over Mum and the 'soulmate' and she said 'what's it about? I'm trying to stay positive at the minute'. So any time I meet up with friends now, I just smile but for God's sake, do not talk about myself. I thought I had made a really special friend, but he (gay) deleted me and blocked me from his socials, rather than telling me he was going to Las Vegas with others. When I asked him why, he said 'I was worried you'd feel left out'. Our friendship has never been the same again and I feel I'm walking on eggshells with him. He's very flaky, will have a sea of 'friends' around him but neglect the solid ones.

I do not and never have judged my brother. I've been there for him his whole life. But I seem to get everything wrong. I am at a point where I wonder IS there a point? No one seems to really care about me - and I don't know what is wrong with me. I've always just done my best. I'm really really frightened that I am going to die alone but am also at a point where I think it would be a relief for people to have me out of the way. I think the biggest pain is coming from 'the soulmate' - I feel I wasn't good enough for him. He has 2 failed marriages already but coupled with the comments from my brother on my weight, maybe he was so nasty to me because I'm not a size 10, I'm a 16 and maybe that was embarrassing for him. Even though I DID NOT stalk him, annoy him, treated him with respect, apparently someone in work called me 'Baby Reindeer' - I didn't do any of those things to that man. I wouldn't, I'd never hurt him. I just wanted to find the same love that everyone else seems to be able to, but I don't feel I am worthy of that now.

I'm sorry this is so long. Thanks for your replies and for listening.

You are not his mum. You must walk away and let him just live his life. You can’t help him or support him - he is a grown man and needs to make decisions for himself. Step away and protect yourself.

To be fair op, you are calling some guy you had a fling with your soulmate just because you liked him for a long time. That's a bit....nuts.

He was just a player jerk who took advantage of you liking him.

When you get into something with someone you've had a crush on for years the playing field isn't level because you already have feelings for them whilst they are just dating you. And this guy was also a crappy person who wasn't looking to be in a relationship, he just wanted the ego boost of you liking him unfortunately. Typical garden variety narcissist.

Your mum formed an unhealthy attachment with an overbearing, abusive person. Does that remind you of anyone? You've done the exact same consistently too, both with bad family members whom you've endured for far too long. And with crappy men.

I wasn't going to say but maybe it will be beneficial, since your first post I've thought 'autism'. It's screans out of your replies and, is commonly linked with ADHD. I have someone close to me that has it that constantly picks abusive people and seems to understand when you explain but...goes on to pick similar relationships again and again. It's heartbreaking to watch.

Autism can also cause extreme fixation and obsession. Calling crushes soulmates. Constantly ruminating on things.

Struggle with correct social dynamics. Eg, the balance between too full on and, well, not. Not understanding nuance. Or that when a man treats them like shit one minute, and nice the next, it's time to throw the man away because he's a headfucking twat (of course anyone can struggle with this to some degree to be fair ).

And feeling like you can't do anything right.
Obsessively fixating on that. Seeming to understand people when they tell you (eg: your brother is the problem) but then going right back to things 5 seconds later expecting a different reply (because you're paranoid it's you that's the problem in that situation).

And - feeling you don't fit. Feeling you never seem to say or do the right things. Constantly feeling insecure.

It may be worthwhile seeing your GP about an autism diagnosis. It might make things fit.
Because I'm not sure you're just dealing with ADHD here. Although it may account for some things. I'd assumed abuse might be the cause of the low self esteem but maybe something more is going on.

Now I'm not blaming you for the way people treated you but, you seem to have attached yourself to a bunch of crappy people and, really struggle detaching. You need to find out why. I mean, it is codependency but, it may be your ADHD or an underlying cause like autism is fuelling this.

You do need to do self work. That's not me saying you are the problem, it's saying no one is perfect and right now, you're struggling with some issues.

Your friends, some may just be crap ppl as you have clearly a tendency to tolerate shit people. But some may simply be drained by your seeming inability to cut off toxic people. In going round and round in circles with you...it can be draining. What can they do to actually help? Nothing if you won't help yourself. And that's really sad for a friend to watch.

It wasn't a fling. And it was HIM who called ME his soulmate. And introduced me to his sister. I never used the word soulmate - HE did. We were in bed and he told me that he knew I was his soulmate and I believed him. That's why I called him 'soulmate' in quotations, because it wasn't me who said it and I don't want to say his name. He told me he would take me on holiday, go to my Mum's old apartment with me, help me with money, was taking me to meet his family, wondered what the ones in work would think 6 months down the line when they found out....that was all him I didn't say any of those things. I'm not nuts. I had real feelings for him. It doesn't mean that I caused his bad behaviour does it?? I even left my job due to him telling people he was 'hiding' from me. God I feel so daft now, but it is the first time I've truly felt that way for someone, but I'd never harm him - I even left my job because I didn't want him feeling the way he was saying he was.

Just wanted to clarify that but other than that, I find your response really helpful so thank you. I'm just frightened that I am doomed now, because of all the things you rightfully say (you're spot on apart from the fling thing).

Would you mind just clarifying about the screaming autism - as I'm new to this and not aware of the behaviours? - I'd also just really appreciate if you could tell me if you think I caused the man to behave like that towards me? I genuinely thought he liked me. He even said 'I really believe our relationship can progress', then he later took it all back saying he had been on a lot of cocaine at the time, which I know nothing about.

Bet you all think I'm a simp.Like why would he EVER be interested in someone like me?

PS I think there is something like an 8 year waiting list for an autism diagnosis.

Hi OP
I'm sorry to read your messages and to hear how in pain you are. Some of the replies on MN can be really harsh sometimes. I know tough love is needed occasionally but sometimes I think there's a bit too much of it given out on these threads.

I sympathise with the situation with your brother. I had a similar situation with my brother when he was taking drugs in his 20s. I worried myself sick about him and my parents turned a blind eye. When I eventually told them, because I was so worried about him, my mum didn't speak to me for three months!

I can understand how difficult it is to watch someone you love do harm to themselves, especially when it's your brother, whom you love dearly, and one of only a few family members you have left.

As others have said though, unfortunately he's not being very nice to you and it's best you distance yourself. I had to accept there was nothing I could do for my brother but it was bloody hard accepting that. He's fine now and has matured and is in a good place but it was really difficult for a few years. You haven't done anything to deserve the treatment you're getting from your brother. Unfortunately, he just doesn't sound very nice - or the alcohol isn't making him very nice.

As for the guy you were seeing, he doesn't sound very nice either and he led you on and didn't treat you well. You sound a nice person, OP, and it's not your fault. Unfortunately there are horrible people out there who will take advantage of nice people. The only thing I can suggest is putting distance between you and people who aren't nice to you and focus on yourself. Do things you want to do. Go to the gym, join a running club, take up a hobby you like. You'll meet like minded people and make new friends.

Hopefully your brother will come back to you when he's sorted his head out.

Really just the vibe I was getting from the sort of fixating nature. I'm definitely not an autism expert but you just really reminded me of someone I know who has similar issues with people. As far as I compare via the internet that is. And just a way of being. It's like, sorry this will round patronising, but when a puppy gets it's paw stood on and is all sad but forgives 3 seconds later...then gets it's paw stood on again...and repeat. And it just sits there all doe eyed and sad.

Like there's not a connection between 'bad treatment and bad people and getting the hell away from them' like you'll just keep standing there getting trod on and being confused about it. And then, mosey on over to someone else who does the same thing and keep standing there too.

Obviously we can be conditioned to being that way via things like abusive childhoods or long term abusive relationships (like that with abusive brothers maybe). But as autism is often alongside ADHD and just the feel of your posts made me wonder if autism could be a factor.

It's evident this ex guy was not a nice person right? Can we agree on that? He might have pretended to be but what he did to you at work and the way he cast you asside was horrible.
I'm really sorry that someone treated you that way.

It would be really beneficial for you to learn how to spot narcissistic abuse. There are excellent YouTubers such as doctor ramani on the subject. I would look into 'love bombing'. Which it sounds like this ex did to you. So you can be wary in future. Knowledge is power.

But I think for you the most important thing is going to be learning that when people treat you cruelly, you can and should walk away. Addressing your codependency is vital in that. Plenty of books second hand on eBay about the subject that won't break the bank like therapy would.

You deserve a happy life with good people in it.
But you have to get free of this vicious cycle you are in of hanging around and tolerating people treating you badly. You need to learn to stand up for yourself -by leaving bad people. Don't waste breath arguing with them. Just go.

It's a shame you had to leave your job because of that nasty man. But it actually may have been the best thing to do for you TBF. Hope you've blocked the jerk.

I'm sure there's plenty of books on autism out there too that may help. Maybe something to do with autism and attachment. Or YouTube something like 'problems faced when dating with autism'. Might not be relevant of course. But codependency books I think may be a big help. Good luck!

It's not necessarily autism, it could be learned behaviour from a dysfunctional upbringing. Children of toxic parents can turn into codependents who tolerate abuse.

Yes this is what I mentioned prior, thinking ops mum was abusive so it may have been upbringing.

But op corrected that it wasn't her mum that was abusive but her mum's friend in adulthood.

However, her abusive brother makes me wonder if there could have been abusive men in her childhood too TBF.

You can't save him. And more importantly he doesn't want you to save him. Until he wants your love and support respect his decision to not be around to nag him.

Ultimately this is in your own best interests anyway.

He has to be the one who wants to change.

But her mum may have been abusive and the OP didn't recognise it. Also her dad may be abusive. For some reason the OP is highly tolerant of bad behaviour, feels an overwhelming sense of responsibility for others, feels a compulsion to rescue and puts the needs of others first.

I would guess at addiction in the family or mental health problems.

I promise my parents were lovely people. My Daddy was my best friend and I lost him when he was only 52, so I was missing that male role model if you like. My Mum was also wonderful to me - but the issues for me most definitely started at 19. My first boyfriend, I had no experience, thought it was normal that he only wanted to see me twice a week, Tuesdays and Saturdays only, was very nasty with put downs like 'I don't like long hair' and 'it's a shame you don't look like Halle Berry' -but that was my norm.

But when my Dad died I was 23 and Mum's friend immediately was THERE. No matter if I said 'Mum does she have to be here today? It's Mother's Day' or 'Can we have Christmas just us?' it fell on deaf ears. She would walk into our house unannounced whenever she felt like it. She would interfere with private conversations between me and Mum. Everything was her business. My old car broke down and I had one chosen which was overruled because 'this woman' had found me one. I wasn't allowed to say no. I hand reared a kitten and she took her off me too even though I wanted to keep her. My Mum spent every holiday period with her, every weekend with her, I didn't know what it was like past 23 to have girly days with my Mum. I just didn't get them.

And because she was a minister, when Mum died, she told me she was annoyed she hadn't been asked to 'do the funeral'. I was carrying my Mum's little box to be interred and she bent right down in front of me to kiss it. But if I objected to anything, I was the worst in the world. She was never wrong.

Was your mum...seeing this woman?
Or was the woman using her power as a minister to convince your mum to keep her around?
Was your mum super religious?

Thank you for clarifying this - my biggest fear is that I caused him to be so nasty because I genuinely loved him. He completely broke me apart. He had been sending me nudes of himself and asked for the same, then said in front of my boss, 'oh I deleted all those', which made me feel so used but also not good enough. And like I say it was he who said I was HIS soulmate not the other way around. I can't get past the feeling of just not being good enough, maybe because I wasn't cool enough, I just wore my heart on my sleeve but he has sworn at me in front of others, humiliated me by hiding in the toilets, asking me questions like 'you really do love me don't you?' only to encourage it then act like this. So I left my job because I couldn't take it anymore. Now I earn much less, and my life is falling apart. My brother has just been the icing on the cake.

Thanks for the hints and tips re youtube. I think a huge part of my issue is, when people treat me like this I automatically assume I deserve it, like how can they be so awful if I've done nothing wrong? I didn't expect the love I have for the guy to be met with SUCH brutality nor for my brother who I have looked out for his whole life to talk to me in the way he has been lately.

Thanks for all your time. I'm really sorry.

protect yourself OP. Just stop contacting him. Don't make a big announcement, just leave it.

If something bad happens, you will hear about it. Until then, you can assume he is stumbling on in his usual way.

Speaking from experience here.

Therapy. You need therapy. Please forget about building a relationship with anyone but yourself right now. Go and do some therapy and learn about what healthy relationships look like, how to set and maintain boundaries and the difference between love and codependency. You also need to build your self esteem. You may have autism and that’s something you can go on the waiting list for but right now, you need the right support through therapy.

Thank you...do you believe I caused the problems here? The abuse etc? I know I tolerate more than I should, I know that. But I get everything blurred.

I think nobody causes themselves to be abused. You cannot make someone abuse you. It’s a choice they make. However, I think you may have issues around boundaries and social relationships. Maybe you just need a little bit of help and support with that from the right professional.

Boundaries in what way? Im sorry!

Little brother who is an adult and doesn't care so back off, leave him alone and enjoy life. We had to do this with one of our siblings they've got to want to change, want love. No point bashing a wall to keep getting down and hurt. Funny thing is once we all decided to step away about a year later our youngest bro suddenly realised we did mean something to him and for the last 2 years he has been a different person but it took all of us to cut him off for a while and his behaviours before he realised how alone he was