TOXIC SIL what to do?

[RIRO30]

Hi! I’ll try keep it short
Been with partner 9 years. Newborn twins
On & off relationship with SIL
She is narcissistic rude jealous horrible bitchy two faced person
Over the years has caused many issues for me and upset me plenty of times with name calling, sarcastic comments etc

Stopped speaking to her one year ago as she ruined my partners birthday party I organised and ended up calling me a rude name.
i fell pregnant
my whole pregnancy she totally ignored me whenever we was in same house/event
at my own gender reveal she didn’t even congratulate me and was rude to my mum & sister
the list is on going

Anyway she acts to my partner like nothing has happened and she wants to meet the babies ?!
My partner bought it up to her that she had to message me. She messaged me saying she hopes we can be civil for kids sake. I replied saying I’m not ready yet and listed a few things she done towards me that upset me. This resulted in her kicking off, me & my partner was just hoping she would say sorry or at least talk about it so we can move on for kids sake

ANYWAY, where the hell do I go from here? I’ve cut her off completely and I’m happy with that but does she deserve to see my children?
She’s basically asked my partner to bring them round to hers to meet them. My partner only speaks to her so no conflict in his family. Would you be comfortable with her around your kids?!
She’s messaged him saying ‘remember I’m your sister’

In another message she said to him that I’m stopping her seeing the babies. Which I find funny as she has me blocked on everything & is the one who has caused all these problems.

If someone who treated me like crap used the line "for the kids sake" I'd tell them that I was steering clear of toxic people "for the kids sake" as it wasn't healthy for then to be around someone who dislikes their mother.

Is this your DH sister?
If so, I think the most pragmatic solution is you go NC is that suits you.
DH facilitates relationship if he wants to.

I think that is reasonable

But does she have DC? Or be of an age/stage where she might at some point?
Because a cousin relationship is important, I think.
And depriving children because of adult bickering I'd say is unreasonable.

Like, if she's an amazing aunt, is it right to stop your DC from that relationship because you and she don't get on? It's not about you when you look at it through that lens.

If she's a horrible aunt you'd have more reason, I think

If she can't respect you she has no place in your dc's lives...

You simply can’t deal with a personality like this. What does she bring to your life? There’s the question, trouble & strife comes to mind! I can’t imagine why you would entertain speaking, listening or reading anything she’s got to say. You know her form, distance, out of sight distance is my suggestion.

I wouldn’t allow someone like this in my life or the lives of my children. What are they going to learn from her?

Nope wouldn’t be happening if she can’t be civil to you she doesn’t deserve to meet the kids. And god knows what she would say to them about you as they get older

your partner should have your back here and sod family conflict it’s her who has caused it

i would be telling your partner she is not meeting the kids due to her behaviour towards you and that from now on you and the kids won’t be attending any family events she is at and he needs to deal with her behaviour and tell her it’s not acceptable

@Vaxtable This is exactly how I feel. I don’t want to attend any family events which she is at because she makes me feel so shit .. which is so sad because my partner has a lovely big family (except for her) so looks like I’ll be missing out on a lot of family time?
My partner does have my back and he’ll never push me to do something I don’t want to do (see her or let kids see her) but he deffo could say more but doesn’t to avoid conflict. Which tbh I don’t blame him because if you argue/get on wrong side of her she will honestly make you feel so shit. That’s why I tell my mum & sister to not get involved as I wouldnt want anyone else to get treated bad by her

@Onthemaintrunkline Yup all she brings is trouble to my life. I just don’t know what to do when it comes to seeing her at family events , and she’s asking to see the babies. Which I feel so awkward for my partner to have to soon tell her no, which will likely them two to fall out. He’s a good quiet person doesn’t deal with conflict well.

Hell no!!!!!

That’s the real problem isn’t it, when this thing spreads, you feeling bad for your partner. But does bad behaviour get rewarded? So so easy for me say but do you reward her - giving she wants after the way she’s behaved? It’s difficult I can’t imagine why see that.

Another thought for the future, is she perhaps capable of dropping nasty comments about you to yr children as they grow older? She won’t like being told no, just a thought, I could be very wrong.

Sorry so many typos, must proof read better! (giving her what she wants) (I can’t imagine why)
Sorry, this reply is a real dogs breakfast!!🥴

@Onthemaintrunkline yeah of course she won’t like being told no! She used the words to my partner ‘she’s stopping me seeing the kids, remember I’m your sister’ is this to guilt trip him? She really doesn’t see anything she does wrong and think it is okay.
One of my family members also said that to me - what if she says nasty things to your children about you when they’re older!!

So if she asks my partner again.. ‘why haven’t I met the kids yet?’ Or ‘bring the kids over’ does he simply have to say no, their mum won’t allow it? I feel so so awkward for him, and if he does go into depth with her about how she’s made me feel/what she’s done to me it will just cause her to be so horrible to him, which he also does not deserve! His small family are very close and for him & his sister to fall out because she doesn’t like me really isn’t fair at all on him!

If you truly want your dp’s family to bumble along with you, it served no purpose to dredge up what has previously happened when she tried to be civil with you.

I have also made this mistake many times and get you were trying to draw a line and put this behind you. The way that you do this with people like her is to say nothing about what has previously happened and hold good boundaries. Ie to deal with any shit thrown at you in the moment.

She is never going to admit to past misdemeanours and she will see any attempt to reconcile using that line as a full frontal attack. The end result will then be she will attack 10 times harder leaving you hurt, confused and unheard.

I get, I really do. I think it’s easier to get my head round it by thinking this is a mismatch in communication, which ultimately it is. You’re an upfront, get it out in the open person. She’s a passive aggressive person.

No relationship with the parents, no relationship with the children.

When she can treat you with respect, she can see your children.

This is the consequences of her behaviour. She doesn't get to be rude to you and then be rewarded with visits with your children.

In what way did she kick off at you on that message? Can you give any examples of things she’s done in the past?

Broadly, if she’s a negative person or continues past behaviours I certainly wouldn’t want to foster a relationship now. However she did reach out to you and depending on what’s happened in the past it might’ve been a way forward that you’ve rejected. Which is not to say you were unreasonable in doing so but a longer conversation at that point might’ve meant more than the apology you are desiring. Sometimes (not always) it really is better to reach a point where you can draw a line under everything instead.

It’s a real shame for your babies to not have an aunt who wants to see them in their lives but sometimes this is necessary. Not all family connections are possible or positive. I would allow your partner to be the steering force on whether she is allowed to meet them if you and her are not able to move forward.

Hi, I think there is another way of saying “their Mum won’t allow it”. Your partner stands with you, and says something along the lines of, ‘we look forward to this happening in the future, we want the children to be around all of the family’. Often less said the better. I think it’s fitting your partner emphasises the ‘we’. Don’t be specific re times etc, but for now I’d be keeping her at arms length.

When/if she reviews her behaviour and you see she’s making an effort, then you may feel comfortable with a re-think. But I agree with other comments you can’t reward your SIL’s nastiness. She does sound a piece of work tho!

I have a policy now, anyone who is toxic to me has been cut from my life, I just don't have anything to do with them. It has been so liberating, my mind is no longer full of angry thoughts, I'm not spending half my life fuming. I haven't made a big drama out of it, SIL turned up to visit my Mum last week, I simply went upstairs to watch television, the same when my Mum's friend who does nothing but criticise me turned up, I had to go through the living room but simply told my Mum I was going to listen to music & left.

Your SIL thinks she has hit on the magic solution for ensuring she can ignore you completely and maintain having a relationship with her brother and your joint children. No way I would be facilitating that. The only message, which comes from your partner, is no, that won't be happening. She apologises, or there won't be any contact with you or the babies. I also wouldn't give her the satisfaction of avoiding her whole family - this is what she wants. Unfortunately her brother will have to spend any family events making sure she doesn't come near you or your children because of her toxic behaviour. She's a jealous, manipulative that.

That = twat

I wouldn’t go NC because then she gets unfettered access to the kids and you out of the picture. Ie what she wants.

your DH needs to lead this. He should be saying “I won’t allow it. You can’t treat the mother of my children like crap. You can visit when you apologise and learn to behave yourself”

She needs to apologise or no contact and he needs to frame it as her choice. Ie she is choosing not to see the kids.
She’d also be travelling to my house, I would not be traipsing to theirs.
even the she doesn’t mean it (which she won’t) if she does you set the tone and she’s on notice.

It doesn’t matter materially now but once they hit 3 or so it’s an issue she’ll be dripping poison and causing you issues... on that basis she would never have unsupervised access.

I would try and detach and get clear boundaries and a thicker skin.
think of yourself as the supervisor in a child contact centre. You don’t have a relationship with her you are just mediating and keeping the kids safe.

also you both need to put her on an information diet tell her nothing about your lives.

No I wouldn’t let him take the babies to her. If she wants to be a part of their lives, then she has to change her ways and act decently towards you.

I would tell your DH to tell her that the offer is there for her to come and meet the twins at your home for an hour if she can be friendly, civil and respectful to you, making it clear that it’s up to her to prove to you that she can act like an adult and make a fresh start, - and that she should ask you when it might be a good time to visit.

Remind him to warn her that any more discord or drama wont be tolerated as it’s not what he wants for his partner and children and that she must stop trying to cause problems between you as he can see right through it and it’s too tiresome to deal with -and will result in her no longer being as important to him.

Be welcoming if and when she takes up his offer, and don’t refer to her past bad behaviour, putting it down to her immaturity. But don’t be over familiar and keep the visit short with the excuse that you are busy/must rest/have to do a feed. Watch and wait to see if she really has changed. If she can behave nicely, then have her back again. Take it slowly until you can begin to trust her again.

Go happily to family events with the expectation that she has grown up and changed her ways. However if the toxic behaviour does continue, then it’s sensible to quietly and without drama, avoid her for the future, meaning she rarely if ever, has access to you or your DC.

She replied with 10 messages but deleted them all by the time I had to read them, which 10 messages at once from her is deffo he being angry. Then messaged my partner saying ‘she’s chatting rubbish’
If I gave examples of what she’s done in the past I’m pretty sure you all will be shocked! I’m actually embarrassed to share things she has done. But it is constant sarcastic comments, comments under her breathe to make me feel uncomfortable, dirty looks. She has even been so rude to my mum & sister.
She only messaged me because my partner asked her too. He called her and said I know you want to come meet the babies but you really need to speak with …
otherwise she would not of messaged me at all and I have no idea how she would of acted if she did come over!

Yes I think I want to stick with this policy! When me and her was on good terms I would always leave an event or place where we was both at fuming or angry with something she has done or said. I really don’t need that toxic in my life ..

thank you. I love your advice and agree that I shouldn’t stop myself attending family events. I’m just scared for the first family event that I take the babies too, what if she comes up and asks to hold the babies or something? Of course I won’t cause a scene but I know inside I’ll be feeling a lot of things.