I've turned into a doormat wife, is recovery possible?

[Lostat55]

My husband suffered from depression for a year or two. It was really bad and some days he'd hardly speak to me. He was extremely reluctant to try medication, but eventually was persuaded. It changed his life, and mine too. He seems to be one of those people who really respond well to the drugs. He's been on the meds for over a year now and is back to 'normal' but I've noticed the dynamic of our relationship has changed.

He's always been afraid to leave his comfort zone and has strong opinions. So if I suggest something I'd like to do, if he doesn't like the idea then it's usually a quick no. It's now at the stage where for years I've gone to see films he likes, bands he likes, take holidays to countries he wants to visit. I don't even bother trying to suggest things I want to do any more. Our social life is so sparse that I'm willing to do anything he suggests just for a rare bit of couple closeness.

When he was depressed I was always trying to please him and make him happy. Somewhere along the way I lost the fight to suggest what I want from the relationship. It's so miserable to suggest things and get a 'no' so I've stopped suggesting things altogether.

I have good friends, my life is mostly happy, though my income isn't great so leaving wouldn't be easy. My relationship isn't even 'bad' now. I find dh kind and funny, if somewhat selfish. Our relationship is home stuff, bad TV, flat and disappointing. Is that just normal?! Our youngest is now nearly 18. I thought our lives would be more fun when parenting became easier, but we more or less lead separate lives socially and mostly have different interests.

I mentioned travelling abroad alone and he freaked out. I explained that if I wanted to visit X country I knew he wouldn't go, so it was my only way to fulfil this travel dream. Then I ended up telling him all of the above. I don't know why I never told him all this stuff before.

He's away seeing family, and we've agreed to talk when he gets back. I want to know if anyone has turned around a situation like this? I've been so passive where he's concerned, but I'm not like that in any other part of my life. My friends see me as assertive and forthright.

I think dh might try to make an effort to fix things, but we've both learned unhealthy roles. I'm the pleaser, he gets what he wants. Is there anyway back from this?

To complicate things further he's recently decided to convert to catholicism. I'm struggling with that as although I respect having a faith (I'd call myself a christian) the values of the catholic faith are so problematic to me. We've talked about his views on things I struggle with like abortion, homosexuality, women's rights etc. and he's given fair answers. He's basically a kind man, and isn't hardline on any of these things. But still... It's another point of difference between us when we're already struggling to have closeness and shared interests.

I know Mumsnet is quick to leap to 'leave him' so I'm not exactly sure why I'm posting here. I suppose I'm hoping for more nuanced views, or advice on next steps. He's refused couple counselling in the past and I'm almost certain he wouldn't commit to that.

Am I doomed to be forever a doormat if I stay with him, or is this marriage saveable?

You need to change the way you manage the relationship and he will follow you. Stop being a doormat, he has a choice, support you and join in or don’t - in which you go/do the activity without him.

This, if you want to stay in the relationship. Couples counselling might help renegotiate roles, and some individual therapy for you so you can rediscover who you are. As someone who grew up in a devoutly Catholic family in a devoutly Catholic society which is still dealing with the fallout, an adult converting would be a dealbreaker for me, though.

I was you for 30+ years then one day decided I'd had enough. I spoke to a solicitor, petitioned for divorce and never looked back. I was scared as didn't know how I was going to manage, but I did. I've been fitter, healthier and happier since my divorce. It wasn't easy but it was exciting and the best thing was that my friends and family were so happy to see the "old me" back. If he won't change then you have too. Life really is too short to just exist. Good luck with whatever you choose to do but make your choice about you and what you want x

I think a lot will depend on his attitude to your feelings when he gets back, if he has thought properly about what you’ve said and is willing to work at your relationship then counselling both as a couple and alone would probably be a good idea but if he is dismissive or “that’s just the way I am” then you are in a tougher place.
I wouldn’t love the conversion to catholicism but good churches are great communities that I can totally see the appeal of as I get older.
I think you should have a good exploration of what YOU want, what you want the next decade to look like and how to achieve that then you can work out if he has a part in that

Get some counselling for yourself and rediscover your zest for life as well as untangling all the stuff you did to help him with his mental health. It’s like you created stabiliser wheels for him and don’t know how to step back now he’s pedalling independently.
You don’t need to make any major decisions right this minute, just start from the premise that you don’t want things to stay the same and see where that takes you.

Could you suggest “why don’t we take it in turns to pick — you go first” so that the next film/band/trip is your choice? And don’t go to one of ’his’ bands again until you’ve been to one of yours.
Perhaps write a bucket list of travel destinations? And be firmer about going alone if he says he’ll never want to go.

You can resist the roles. Do what you want when you want. He gets to decide if he wants to join you. Decide what you want to watch on tv. If you don’t like his choice do something else.

Over time it will evolve into something more equal. He’ll watch bad tv when you are out at dance classes. He’ll go to the theatre with you. You’ll take it in turns to pick the show.

Travel- why not start a bit smaller and work up to the trip you want to do? Whether that’s little trips together or little trips alone!

Thanks so much for such thoughtful replies. I think that 'what does the next decade look like' point is a good way to look at this. I do worry he's just resistant to any change. It's possibly part of his mental health thing (or personality?) that any situation he's uncomfortable with is usually a firm no, and that includes my sort of bands, my films, travel places etc. It's not like I'd ever ask him to do anything he'd really dislike, it's just he has such a tiny comfort zone. But I also think I've enabled this attitude. I've given up on ever asking him to try anything I might like.

This all started when he commented on what a good relationship we have now. I just had such a strong reaction to that. We see things so differently. He has a 'great relationship' because he gets his own way with everything! It's not even his fault, because I've said nothing until now.

I can't decide if I'm overreacting to the Catholic thing. I probably am, but it feels like a sign of growing apart. We got confirmed together in the C of E, but he was always more keen than me. We stopped going to church years ago. Now I have this image in my head of needing to give him a catholic funeral (if the worst happened) and being hugely uncomfortable at the time I most need comfort. It's like that's become a symbol for me. It means I'd be people pleasing him to the grave. 😂

Unless you have very strong religious options, there isn't a huge difference between Catholicism and the stricter end of the CofE. So this might just be the straw which has broken the camel?
Start living your life, go out with friends, travel with a tour group, find a fan group for your music and go to concerts. Not being joined at the hip isn't a sign of a bad marriage.

You don't want people to tell you to leave your husband but really, if he doesn't support you the way you support him, and goes mad at the thought of you going abroad alone, and has converted to a religion you don't particularly like, and you are basically just there to support his lifestyle, why is this so off the table?

Is he likely to ever go to see bands you want, films you want or places you want? If no, then genuinely, what is the point of staying together?

How is his health generally? Not saying he's got something wrong with him per se, but I noticed big changes in my Dad's ways of thinking and a conversion to extreme religion associated with a decline in his physical health. Turned out he had a serious health condition. Has he had a GP check up recently?

He’s not resistant to change when it suits him. Changing faith is actually a huge change.
I was brought up Catholic and while I consider myself a believer as a young woman questioned the doctrine so much.
Your life sounds like a dance around him.
I have some physical issues which make foreign travel a nightmare so my OH goes abroad with his DC, his friends or on his own. Whatever I can’t do but he likes to do he does with my blessing.
And believe me when he’s on a beach or walking around NYC it’s tough, but I can’t do it these days. So I plan treats at home while he is away.
You have to have space for you. Otherwise leave.

I'm really grateful for the replies. I see both sides of it, which is why it's tricky. It's not a bad marriage, but kind of unequal and I worry I'm just settling for things. I suppose 20 years into a relationship things might be bound to be a bit flat?

I agree with @AlisonDonut that leaving shouldn't be off the table. We lead such separate lives, so what is the point? I do see that, but still....

But @turkeyboots puts the other side, couples don't have to do everything together. We have different tastes so maybe it's ok that we each do our thing? We do at least share good conversations about our day.

I'm going to press for improvements. The big one is to train myself out of the habit of thinking what I want but not saying it. I'm protecting myself from the disappointment by just never asking. It's like some weird unhealthy learned behaviour.

I think I need to know more about why he likes the catholic faith so much. I just freak out at the thought of women not being equal, views on abortion, homosexuality, and all the rest. It's like we have completely different values. I know he can't wholeheartedly support all that, but then why does anyone tie themselves to an institution that approves of all that?

any situation he's uncomfortable with is usually a firm no, and that includes my sort of bands, my films, travel places etc

A film you pick, does not make him uncomfortable, he'd just rather have everything his way. He's being a selfish brat and you need to stop enabling it, nothing is going to change until you do.

You two sound like you're becoming more and more incompatible, especially his upcoming religious conversion. He sounds controlling.

I guess see what he comes back with when he comes back home.

I think maybe relationship counselling might help you both. It should give you a safe space to discuss the situation and try to reset things.

Hopefully he's willing to put some work in and meet you partway.

When he comes back, are you just going to listen to him and continue to not rock the boat?
I would listen to what he has to say when he comes back and then reiterate your own point of view. It doesn’t need to be emotional, blaming, damning, no ultimatums, just plainly explained how his actions make you feel. Ask him to try join you in your pursuits, because you’d love his company. Tell him how you see your life for the next 10 years, ask him if it’s something he’d be interested to share with you.
Keep track of his actions for 6 months and then reevaluate. If there was no interest from his part in your life, wish him a good life and go your separate ways.

I converted to Catholicism 17 years ago. My views on pregnancy terminations and homosexuality haven't changed. I'm still pro-choice, I support gay marriage and am a strong feminist. You'd be hard pressed to find a Catholic that agreed with every single issue that they preach.

If he's a kind and decent person then I would do everything I could to stay in my marriage.

I wouldn't suggest couple's counselling, I'd go to individual counselling and work on my self esteem. In individual counselling you can explore your behaviour in the relationship.

I'd also do some reading on assertiveness, there are lots of books and resources on being assertive and maintaining good boundaries.

If you change, the relationship dynamic will be forced to change. As a decent and kind person, I'm sure your husband will support you.

Thanks for this, that's interesting. I don't actually know any catholics, except people who grew up that way and lapsed. He has sort of explained that his views haven't changed. I just find it hard to understand how someone can choose that faith but have different views on these big issues, but you're a perfect example that it can happen! Our daughter is gay and he's always been accepting of that. I really need to talk to him about his faith, it will either help or maybe make it clear that we're heading in different directions.

It sounds borderline abusive to me. You have a great relationship as long as he gets everything his own way?

See how he is when he gets back, but anything other than, "Oh no, I didn't realise that's terrible, let me make it better", doesn't bode well.

I was a member of a progressive Catholic Church - the Priest was gay but presumably celibate so wtf does it matter. The Bible might mention homosexuality in 1 passage in the Old Testament (but it's all an interpretation anyway). The Old Testament also forbids us from eating shellfish and pork and forbids the wearing of mixed fibres so I really don't understand why such a big deal is made of 2 consenting adults loving each other. Sex outside marriage is accepted by all except the most hard line religious people so, again, why the big deal about homosexuality? What did Jesus say about homosexuality? Actually, those who've studied it say he didn't say very much about it all.

Doesn't the Bible also forbid wanking? FFS, there's no way I'd allow my children to be taught that message. My oldest is gay too and the overriding message is that God made us all in His image, just as he wanted us to be.de

I will never understand why the Christian religions make such a big deal out of homosexuality but don't deal with feeding the poor and loving thy neighbour - my current theory is that if we all get caught up in anger about gay people loving each other we'll forget about the rich hoarding all the wealth and not feeding the poor. Loving our neighbour would mean we'd have to stop blaming "immigrants" and look at where the real problems are.

Does he stop you from doing the stuff you want to do? Or is it that he refuses to join in with you in the things you want to do?

It's more that we don't do things together. If I suggest stuff it seems to go through a whole load of his filters busy/not my taste/too expensive/can't be bothered and I always end up getting a polite but firm "no"! So if I want to do anything with him I go along with his suggestions. I'm so desperate to do anything close and connected that I've ended up seeing loads of bands, films, plays, sports, that I'm barely interested in. I've started to see that this isn't normal! It's just massively one sided.

I've made much more of a life on my own and almost all the fun I have now is with friends. But I've started to think this is a sad way to exist as a couple. We have a running joke that 'date night' is an occasional trip to Tesco or B&Q. He thinks it's funny, while I see the tragedy of it all.

I think if he's willing to make some effort this is fixable. However, I'm worried he's had so many years of us doing things his way that it just won't stick. I would never ask for him to do something I know he doesn't like, but I worry he'll find it hard to even compromise a little.

I do know a lot of this is my fault for getting to this stage. Before lockdown, before his depression, things were a better, though still somewhat unbalanced. Maybe I just need to accept things as they are? I guess some people must have a relationship that's just living together but being separate for fun and social stuff.

He has a 'great relationship' because he gets his own way with everything!

You've absolutely summed it up here OP. My parents have this kind of marriage. My dad does exactly what he wants and my mum panders to him. If she wants to spend time with him it has to be what he wants to do, like helping out at his sports club (which she has no interest in). If it's something she wants/likes she has to do it on her own. But it's worse than that because they have a very traditional marriage so she's limited in doing her own thing because she is expected to cook and serve all his meals etc. He doesn't like going on holiday because he likes home comforts and having his meals made exactly to his liking by mum. I remember a one time she went on a short break with a friend. Us kids went to stay with grandparents and mum prepared all his meals in advance because he couldn't be expected to manage. He moaned and griped so much about being lonely and how horrible it was to reheat meals she didn't do it again.

Having said that my mum thinks a wife's role is to look after her husband and keep him happy. He is happy because she performs that role. But because she's never pushed back the thought that he ought to care about her happiness too never occurs to him.

When I was young I said I'd never get married because I thought that's what it had to be like for the woman. But I am married now and my marriage is nothing like that.

You are right to push back. It might mean he is more thoughtful of your wishes. Or it might mean you live even more separate lives (and perhaps separate). But if you're unhappy and don't want to settle for this, like my mum did, you have to do something.