Both overly independent & find it hard to work as a partnership

[Klemmimg]

I lived alone 3x longer than DP ever did post divorces but we both in our 40’s and together for 5 years and struggling with merging our lives together. We love each other very much and I think of us as a strong equal partnership generally, but living together has shone a light on all of our differences.

It’s ok for people to be different and have different strengths in my eyes. He is very creative and takes his time getting something right, I just want things done and over with, rather than lingering, so I will power through and not give up. This means we are VERY different when it comes to living together and it’s causing friction.

I am the do-now and he is the do-later. This causes friction when he sees me doing things he isn’t doing, and tells me to do it later, and I say I’m doing it now to save time tomorrow. I don’t understand why you choose to let jobs build up so they are much bigger another day. He wants to make everything a tomorrow problem, problem is, tomorrow never comes so it will just all build up. He wants us to just sit and relax every evening together.

DP has always been very much into his own systems of tidying up etc, basically to me it looks like absolute chaos, he never finishes what he has started and starts new projects and piles and he is always flying by the seat of his pants - he gets by, functionally, but it’s always a bit stressful and chaotic. He does DO stuff, he isn’t lazy, and he isn’t expecting me to do it (the opposite he rejects help) he cleans, cooks and does loads of laundry but it’s always chaos. You can’t tell what’s dirty or what’s clean, he just has so much stuff and never seems to empty a pocket into a bin, he will just empty them all onto a side and then leave it there. He is the ‘have you seen this tiny screw I was saving’ guy.

The kicker is - he finds it very hard to accept my help with things, as he gets all sensitive that I am judging him or interfering with his bloody piles of stuff. He wants me to adopt his method of just leaving it for later. I don’t want to cook a meal with his piles of crap hanging around so I will move them if he doesn’t. I am not asking him to adopt my way of doing it all now, but leave me alone to just get on with what I want to do or just put his stuff away? If it’s important, put it somewhere you will remember it? If we end up doing a house clean together, he complains I ask him too many questions and make him feel stressed - basically I have to ask him about all the piles of shit he has whether it’s to keep or for the bin.

I want a nice house, we spent a lot of money on it and I just want us to work as a team. I don’t know how best to communicate with him. Frankly I think he he may have a bit of a hoarding problem brewing and this worries me a lot

Why do you think you haven’t communicated with him? You have given several examples of issues you have discussed.

This isn’t a communication problem, it’s a compatibility problem. The way you each want to live is too different.

You can spend years making each other miserable by trying to change. Or you can accept this, move out and continue to date, if you still want to. Many happy couples don’t live together.

Agree with PP - this isn’t a communication problem, it’s a compatibility issue. You live differently and there doesn’t seem to be a middle ground.

We had this talk when we moved in. I said I didn’t expect him to morph into some stepford wife overnight and just leave me be if I am getting on with something - my way of being able to relax is knowing all my stuff is ready for tomorrow, and I don’t have to come home after work and cook in a messy kitchen, or try to dig my knickers out of a laundry basket. He said he would work with me to meet in the middle. But he isn’t, he keeps buying paper lottery tickets (when you can get them online) and then we aren’t allowed to touch them in case they might be winners and he hasn’t checked them yet. Or he will have his x paperwork in one area pile and y in another and can’t just put them together in the same area, cos he will ‘forget’ where they are. He’s annoyed with me for hoovering the house because he’s lost a tiny piece of plastic from the wet vac and he needs to glue it back on, so what we never going to hoover till we find it? I just told him to search the hoover bag in case I hoovered it up!

Have you bought a place together before living together first?

Is this all about his messiness and domestic type things? What was his own place like?

He was U to get annoyed about bits on the floor being hoovered up. I’d not want to get into ‘helping’ mode if the basic problem is that he’s messy.

He was messy yes so we had this chat, he got defensive as it was his place therefore his mess not mine. He was the one pushing to move in, and not so I would help him, he hates my help. We did live together to some extent, 3-4 days a week before buying. I do worry he has a hoarding issue and this is why he doesn’t like people touching his stuff. He gets upset if he thinks I might move it. He can never find anything and it’s not because I move it, it’s cos he has a crazy system of putting things down into either tiny or huge piles. When moving in together he showed me his massive collection of birthday cards, and I said I thought this was a bad habit to continue as where will we keep them all but he cannot throw them away.

I am not nagging at him all the time, in fact I just get on with it, I do not mind tidying up as much as he does. He will just keep on using something even if it’s dirty/messy as he thinks well it will just get messy again later - like the sink, or the air fryer. He just has all these doom piles he can’t go back to sort out.

Hoarding is a recognised mental health issue which is extremely difficult to treat.

The doom piles will not be cleared and he seems to find it very difficult emotionally to throw anything away.

I would think long and hard as to whether you want to remain in a relationship with him. it may well be that you will need to leave him to have your own peace of mind.

So he moved into yours?

Hoarding is a different problem from different domestic preferences or him being shit at domestics (mixing up clean and dirty stuff, letting dirty dishes pile up, for example), and would be a deal breaker for me.

spending 3/4 nights a week together and having somewhere else to go is very different.

get a cleaner - the night before he/she comes he can join you in clearing the decks to avoid embarrassment- it helps incentivise him and make it not a you problem & you’ll have the nice tidy house you crave- this is the most common compatibility issue of all but you can work through it together

I think you have made a mistake. Hoarders can’t just get rid of stuff and tidy it away.

Can either of you afford to buy the other out so you can live separately again?

With respect, you are missing the point - which is that they have very different idea of what a “ nice tidy house “ is.

He wants a house where his piles of precious objects can be left undisturbed, where he can keep his collections, do things in his own time and sit and relax every evening. He doesn’t want to waste his time cleaning things that will get dirty again. He wants to do housework in his own way and at his own time. He does NOT want help from the Op , he becomes anxious at the thought of her moving his stuff. So a cleaner would be 10 times worse.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to live like this. The OP acknowledges this intellectually, but the reality is that she can’t bear it so she is trying to change him. She thought that “ meeting in the middle “ meant that he was going to change to some degree, but it turns out that he’s either unwilling or unable to do this.

She’s understandably disappointed and frustrated.

However I suspect he is unable to change and I think the Op knows that. That’s why I’m suggesting that living together didn’t going to work for them as they are too different.

Neither of them are right or wrong. Perhaps they have both tried to change in their own ways, but the gap between them is too large .

This sounds like me, I wonder if he has ADHD? I know it's talked about a lot but so much of what you've listed is literally part of the diagnosis -
Doom piles
Procrastinating
Not able to start/follow through or finish tasks
Sensitivity, particularly where there's perceived rejection even where there isn't any
Difficulty being organized

It's not an easy fix, there's no cure it's literally a different neurotype but if he's willing he can learn coping mechanisms to ease it. Someone suggested a cleaner - this could help because having the knowledge of a deadline for things to be done is helpful.
Look at your storage options - is there a way to have more open storage so he can see where his things are.

He'll probably never have a completely clutterfree environment but he could definitely learn to be better, equally if you truly love him you might need to adjust and lower your expectations a little as well.

Agreeing with poster above that this sounds like me and I also have ADHD. To be honest, I never expect to live with a partner ever again because I wouldn't expect them to live with my mess but also wouldn't be happy with them trying to change my way of living. People with ADHD (diagnosed or not) deal with massive feelings of shame about their failures as a human being so that even when someone is trying to help, we can interpret it as criticism/rejection.

I think I recognise some aspects of your partner in myself. When I lived alone it was all pretty chaotic most of the time.

However, I do know it's not really acceptable when sharing a living space with others so when my wife moved in I made sure any areas we shared were kept reasonably tidy and organised, and restrict my messy ways to my office, the garage and the inside of my wardrobes.

Even emptying pockets onto any nearby flat surface had to stop.

So, while some may say it's just doomed incompatibility, it is possible you might get him to understand why he needs to do this like normal people at least in most of the house.

I am sure this is somewhat related to neurodiversity but his parents are also a lot like this so some of it is learned. He has a lot of guilt about getting rid of things and a just in case mindset, what if we ever need it etc. it’s hard to get out of this mindset. I am not trying to change him, he promised me he would work on a compromise, I suggested keeping his mess in one designated spot but he just drops mess everywhere like a trail of destruction. He hates his parents house so he does see how it can get out of control. They are excessive spenders and although their house is clean, it’s stuffed to every corner with crap they will then have a clear out then just buy new crap.

I am willing to compromise and if he wants a messy wardrobe on his side, that’s fine. But I don’t want to be having to pick my way across floors littered with his crap, and we are not so hard up that we need to be draining every drop from basically empty bottles (shampoo, toothpaste, washing up liquid) which all accumulates as well.

Worse still he is always stressed, his piles do not work, they don’t provide him with a magic key to finding things, he is constantly losing things so the logic he has doesn’t work.

I know a couple like this. They have domains. His shed / garage is organised chaos and he hoards things in there. The house is tidy and orderly. I don't know how much space you have but can he 'have' some of it?

I agree, cooking / living in clutter and chaos is stressful and practically difficult.

ETA - would he consider therapy of some kind? Messiness is one thing but is he has an emotional connection to his stuff and an inability to get rid of things that are making his and your life difficult then he needs some professional help.

OP

re your comment
"He has a lot of guilt about getting rid of things and a just in case mindset, what if we ever need it etc".

That is how hoarding starts and it is already causing problems. Hoarding is a recognised mental health issue; it has nothing to do with neurodiversity. And it is extremely difficult to treat successfully. He will have to be completely committed to clearing and there is no indication of him being anywhere near that stage.

Also his parents are the same. What you are suggesting to him will not work either.

Hard as it will be for you to do your only real option is to leave him to his hoard. You will end up otherwise with a house akin to his parents home; full of broken and or unused/unwanted stuff in all rooms that is not ever cleared. You minimise this at your emotional peril and you need to educate yourself to the realities of hoarding behaviour.

If you give him any space for his hoard he will fill that in no time at all and demand more. This is no life for you OP it really is not. It will take over your entire life. You have been warned.

You’re just not getting it are you?

I absolutely believe he would like to “compromise” but he’s mentally ill. Your house will end up like his parents house, or worse.

You need to separate or prepare to drown in a sea of shite.

You two just don't sound compatible to live together.

Add in hoarding, that would be a hell no never.

lots of people have successful relationships living apart. I would go back to that OP. He is pushing you to change things that make you happy and relaxed. You don’t need to change. He sounds unable to change. Go back to being a strong partnership in separate houses for now.

@Nowvoyager99 seriously this is not a case of me not getting it, separating is really hard and I haven’t said I want to leave him over this or lose my home and partner or that I am at that point.

I would say he is currently at some awareness stage of verging towards hoarding, he understands the concept and the impact it has and makes some effort to manage it. We do sometimes work together to condense down things he doesn’t mind as much like kitchen ware or clothes.

The stuff he keeps isn’t actually big items it’s tools, screws, pocket junk, coins, and paperwork, stuff the kids make, birthday and Christmas cards, paper & stationery, tiny little toys and trinkets of the kids, plastic tat, (won’t throw out as belong to the kids) so the kids also have bedrooms bursting at the seams full of all this worthless little tatty trinket junk.

Enragingly much of the crap comes from his parents as they shift a lot of it onto him and he can’t say no but he says he has started to have a vision of me in his head annoyed at the stuff being brought back so he tries to say no. He has no sentimental attachment to the stuff they give him but guilt about throwing it away. I told him to just help them take it to the tip and avoid visiting without me (they don’t do it when I am present).

They buy everyone cheap tatty trinket junk on every outing they take, every holiday, every event. Kids get a full traditional costume from x country which they never wear, cheap ugly T-shirts, fake designer clothing, tiny expresso mugs, cheap bracelets etc.

Aside from this junk I find him just leaving it everywhere inconvenient to be my biggest bugbear. If you want your junk then fine, have it, but don’t invade all the communal areas with it. I bought a big plastic tub and all their junk (him and kids) that is left out just goes in the tub for sorting out. I don’t know if this is the answer though

OP

What you are describing is his hoarding behaviour and it is a recognised mental illness. His parents are the same and that is a red flag too, it can run in families.

What you're doing will make no difference whatsoever I am sorry to say. He will fill that tub mainly full of his stuff and you will be unable to throw it away because he will say that he needs it. His hoard will end up practically everywhere in your home. He is also churning by moving items from one place to another without discarding it so exacerbating more clutter.

If there are children involved I would seriously consider separating because they will become affected by your partner's hoarding as well. You're already feeling its effects and this is not going to get any better.

Granted separating is very hard but hoarding is a lot bloody harder for you to cope with and you could well drown emotionally under his hoard. He is not ready for clearing, nowhere near and his feelings of shame keeps his hoard intact. It is also that shame that stops his from getting proper help and you with all due respect are in no position to help him.

You are falling into sunk cost fallacy. He. Will. Not. Change. This is your LIFE now. You sound so unhappy and each update is making it worse.

OP, why do you want to live together? Why not live apart and maintain your relationship that way.

You are making each other stressed. You aren't enjoying the process and neither is he.

I suggest you find two homes, close together and enjoy time together and equally, time apart, Then you won't keep judging him.