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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do I co parent with a narcissist?

59 replies

athenaswrath · 12/03/2025 07:28

Just that really.

Went to court yesterday and an undertaking was issued. He's not to message me or call me direct and we are to use the parenting app only for child arrangements only.

He has our daughter who is nearly 2 on a Thursday and every other Saturday. I have told him the Thursdays are going to be hard because I will be starting work and she will go to either nursery or to a child minders. He has already decided to have her the opposite weekends to my other children as they go to their dads a certain weekend and he chose to have her the other so I couldn't go out or socialise etc (ways of controlling me) but this also means I can only work weekdays too. I have other school runs and I will have appointments etc I have said to him about keeping his weekend but to have her the Friday to Sunday instead of the Thursdays as it's a lot of running around for me as I have to do the school runs and I have to then get our daughter to him then get her the Friday then meet him again the Saturday and then again the Sunday on the every other week he has her the Saturday. He won't budge he's telling me no, he has to work, he can't change it he can't do this he can't do that before he said he will sort it and change it and have a word with his manager but still hasn't this has been going on for a year. He knows I want to go back to work. The undertakings also means he not allowed near my other children so I'll have to go get my son from school drop him home to then go back out to take our daughter him to then come back and then the next day get my daughter from him etc etc it's just a lot of running around and when I start work this won't be able to happen. He's saying he will take me to court because he wants to see his daughter and I'm being awkward when I'm not. I have never stopped him seeing his child and I have made every arrangement for him to continue access to her even through court I've been the one arranging middle people that he ended up ruining. I just don't know what to do here, if it goes to court how will it stand for me? I can't even plan holidays with all my kids because of the Thursdays and because of the opposite weekends as I won't always have all my children for example haven holidays I can't do a weekend away with them just me and then because I will end up having the others or not my daughter. He won't compromise and it's just so hard. What do I do?

OP posts:
athenaswrath · 12/03/2025 07:55

Anyone?

OP posts:
NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 10:22

Can you potentially swap the weekend when you have your other children to the same one when you now have your youngest?
Have experience of supporting a friend who is in your shoes.
”Grey rock” is useful to know about but doesn’t prevent them from using their old tricks.
The other thing I would suggest is that you can find a counsellor that specialises in / books about parenting with narcissists and about high conflict divorces.
The friend who is in your shoes never gives her kids any idea what their dad is up to and she makes sure their routines are iron-clad. In her shoes I don’t think I would have the patience or presence of mind. That said these kids are growing up to be extremely happy, balanced, calm individuals who are winning prizes at school for academic work and behaviour. If they did know their dad was a raging fantasist / narcissist / abuser, would it help my friend / them to know this? It’s up to the individual to work that out and decide.
My friend is much happier than when she was with their dad, despite his horrible controlling ways that she won’t be clear of until their youngest is 16.
Good luck. I wish I could be of more help.

athenaswrath · 12/03/2025 10:22

NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 10:22

Can you potentially swap the weekend when you have your other children to the same one when you now have your youngest?
Have experience of supporting a friend who is in your shoes.
”Grey rock” is useful to know about but doesn’t prevent them from using their old tricks.
The other thing I would suggest is that you can find a counsellor that specialises in / books about parenting with narcissists and about high conflict divorces.
The friend who is in your shoes never gives her kids any idea what their dad is up to and she makes sure their routines are iron-clad. In her shoes I don’t think I would have the patience or presence of mind. That said these kids are growing up to be extremely happy, balanced, calm individuals who are winning prizes at school for academic work and behaviour. If they did know their dad was a raging fantasist / narcissist / abuser, would it help my friend / them to know this? It’s up to the individual to work that out and decide.
My friend is much happier than when she was with their dad, despite his horrible controlling ways that she won’t be clear of until their youngest is 16.
Good luck. I wish I could be of more help.

He has just told me this morning he is in the process of going for full custody now because he feels his daughter is not safe round me or my eldest son. 😔😔😔

OP posts:
NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 10:27

Threatening court is a classic abusive strategy. Do you have any reason to believe he is an expert in family law?
Take notes of his threats and his stated reasons for giving them, and of whatever his latest thing or rant is, and eg. how many times he sent you messages that day. Keep a diary of what he is saying. Write down how it made you feel. If he does take you to court - and he likely is just making an empty threat - you will want to (I would want to anyway) tell the court that you consider his behaviour to be abusive and want the court to give you more parental responsibility so that he isn’t able to control you from afar in the way he is trying to. The diary might be a good thing to produce.

When you get a message from him, don’t reply for at least half a day / a day. And don’t reply late at night / after 8 pm unless it relates to a hand over / drop off the next day. Protect your privacy and time.

NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 10:33

athenaswrath · 12/03/2025 10:22

He has just told me this morning he is in the process of going for full custody now because he feels his daughter is not safe round me or my eldest son. 😔😔😔

He is making the threats that he knows will hurt you the most.

Have you had any legal advice yet, free or not?

Write down all the times he has made threats to you, before or since you broke up, and why he has said he is making them.

Were there any times your child was unsafe with you or your other child? (I am playing devil’s advocate here- am sure there weren’t). Does your younger child have a good relationship with their siblings? Sibling relationships are really important.

Putting your case forward in court - it is very likely not to get to that - is much like putting together a business case, and he has angry words to put in his whereas you have love and dignity. Dig out any lovely photos of your children all together. Birthdays, Christmases etc. Write a long list of what they do with / for each other and with their grandparents, aunts and uncles on your side.

Abusive people send your cortisol levels sky rocketing. Little by little they try to make you crazy because it gives them satisfaction. You are in the right and he knows that.

NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 10:34

Also - ignore him as much as humanly possible. Especially court threats.

NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 10:35

Do the undertakings only specify the app? Nothing else?

CatsChin · 12/03/2025 10:39

I think you need to change the times of your other children's weekends with you, if that's what you think is best for you. Just get this bit over with and agreed, with as little discussion as possible. You will need to compromise but hopefully once it is set in stone (and you can stick to a ROUTINE which I think is so important for everyone in this situation) then re-arrange the other children's days with you. That is likely to be the easier battle.

Snorlaxo · 12/03/2025 10:40

Unless you’ve missed some info like you and your oldest are on the sex offenders register then don’t worry that he wants full custody. He can ask for 50% tops and you’ll be able to ask that his days are consecutive as that’s easier for dd and he pays for nursery on his weekdays. If he asks for 50/50 then you’ll need to go to court over whose address is used for school applications etc

Don’t tell him stuff like you are planning on going back to work. He used that info to make things harder for you on purpose. If you think he will go to court, play him at his game and fake enthusiasm for his plan for more contact. He wants to make you miserable and will be wondering why you want 50/50 and second guessing his decision.

If you go to court then get some whole weeks written into the Child Arrangement Order so you can take all the kids away over the summer or whatever. He may ask for a whole week to do the same too which should make up for the Thursday and weekend he loses when you go away.

Imgoingtobefree · 12/03/2025 10:49

I have recently divorced a narcissist but didn’t have to co parent, so I can only offer limited advice.

Make sure all your dealings are by text or emails. You say he has to go through a Whats app, but my experience is that they will try to breach this. IF you end up have any kind of conversation, either record it or send a text after which ‘confirms’ the conversation.

Only respond, never react to anything. Wait before you reply. Keep everything very polite and non emotive. Be Grey Rock. In my experience any time I tried to defend my self, and thus sent any kind of criticism- he would use this as an excuse for further punishment.

Don’t believe anything he says until it happens. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. Take a deep dive into any resources online that you can find about the legal situation you are in. Arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can.

Maybe you can try a qualified Mediator to help sort the coparenting? They cost about £100/per hour (in an ideal world this cost would be shared), but expect to have to pay it yourself. Buts it’s still cheaper than a solicitor.

Most narcissists care deeply about how others see them (you don’t count anymore) and their reputation is everything. So if you can use this to your advantage, try to do so. This may be including a third party as a witness to your interactions, but the Narcissist often refuses to do this for the very reason they don’t want anyone else to know what they are really like.

It’s an awful thing to say, but you have to think ahead about all possible situations and outcomes (and have a plan for them) because this is what the Narcissist is doing ALL THE TIME.

And finally, accept that the Narcissist has to WIN. He won’t relent until this happens. You just have to plan in some easy wins that will make him feel good, without causing you too much loss.

Im sorry if this sounds so awful, but I suspect you know the truth already. It’s awful that your two year old is at the centre of all this.

I found it hard to believe that my ex was deliberately causing conflict and aggro for the sake of it - but that’s what he did.

After a marriage to a narcissist it is normal for your emotions to be so triggered that it’s hard to see anything without feeling fear and anxiety when you have to interact with them. I ended writing a note which I put on my wall which said “Use Logic, not Emotion”

athenaswrath · 12/03/2025 10:50

@NeedsMustNet she has a very good relationship with her siblings, especially my eldest he literally loves her so much and she loves him he is no threat to her he would never hurt her. It's just very stressful he has said he wanted to get the court over with and the stress of yesterday done and now he's starting proceedings to have her full time. Yet he won't change one day for me so she's in a proper routine because at the moment she goes every Thursday then home Friday then goes the Saturday then comes home the Sunday. I have asked him to swap the Thursday to Friday as it's easier all round I don't have to keep running around multiple times when I have 3 other children but he won't budge. I've tried to compromise he won't have it it's his way all the time but it's not going to work for me anymore I want to start work and I have other children, school runs and I'll have to rely on childminders/nursery. Now because of this he's threatened he's started proceedings because he doesn't feel his daughter is safe with me because I suffer with depression and anxiety when it's been worse the last few months because of the non molestation court case and he has continued to be abusive and nasty.

OP posts:
athenaswrath · 12/03/2025 10:52

CatsChin · 12/03/2025 10:39

I think you need to change the times of your other children's weekends with you, if that's what you think is best for you. Just get this bit over with and agreed, with as little discussion as possible. You will need to compromise but hopefully once it is set in stone (and you can stick to a ROUTINE which I think is so important for everyone in this situation) then re-arrange the other children's days with you. That is likely to be the easier battle.

I will try this but he is wanting every other Saturday til Sunday and Thursday, Thursdays won't work anymore I told him this a month ago. It's not suitable for me or the other children anymore.

OP posts:
athenaswrath · 12/03/2025 10:53

NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 10:35

Do the undertakings only specify the app? Nothing else?

Yes we are only to contact through the close app about child arrangements and then he says this, this morning because I said the Thursdays need to change.

OP posts:
athenaswrath · 12/03/2025 10:54

NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 10:27

Threatening court is a classic abusive strategy. Do you have any reason to believe he is an expert in family law?
Take notes of his threats and his stated reasons for giving them, and of whatever his latest thing or rant is, and eg. how many times he sent you messages that day. Keep a diary of what he is saying. Write down how it made you feel. If he does take you to court - and he likely is just making an empty threat - you will want to (I would want to anyway) tell the court that you consider his behaviour to be abusive and want the court to give you more parental responsibility so that he isn’t able to control you from afar in the way he is trying to. The diary might be a good thing to produce.

When you get a message from him, don’t reply for at least half a day / a day. And don’t reply late at night / after 8 pm unless it relates to a hand over / drop off the next day. Protect your privacy and time.

This bloke is abusive very abusive he always says these things about keeping her and not returning her, about taking her full time, then having her 50/50 it's a constant thing for him.

OP posts:
GingerIsBest · 12/03/2025 11:00

OP, deep breath. You know this man is actively out to make your life difficlt so the first thing you have to do is stop expecting him to act like a rational or reasonable human.

Re Thursdays: how formal is the current arrangement? is it court ordered? Becuase I don't really understand why, if she's goign to be at a childminder or nursery on a thursday, and it's his day, he can't just collect her on Thursdays from there? Surely that's the obvious solution. If he says he can't as he has to work until xx time, I thikn it's perfectly reasonable to say that in that case, he must change his days as it is HIS responsibility on HIS days to handle childcare/pick up etc. If there's a court order, it should clarify this. If not, it might be that you should be formalising child arrangements anyway.

To that end, if you haven't formalised child arrangement orders, never mind him taking you to court, I think YOU should start the ball rolling to do that. Doesn't mean you can't agree flexiblity, but there's no reason why it should all be on his side.

As for him threatening you - these men ALWAYS threaten custody. But, and this is where the average narcissist, especially a covert narcissist which he sounds like he's more likely to be based on what you've said, really screws themselves over..... because they have disordered thinking, they genuinely believe that the threat is genuine. They think the court WILL award them full custody. If they were really honest with themselves, they probably also think that even if that happened, you would stilll do all the hard work but they would be "in charge". And because they usuall yhave trained their victims well, your instinct is to be scared when they make this confident assertion. BUT..... it's total bollocks. No court is goign to award full custody to a man who currentl yhas his DD on Thursdays and every other weekend, and who, I'm assuming by the fact that he's not allowed to engage with you outside of the app, has been proven to be abusive and threatening.

So unless there's some big reveal about why she's not safe with you and your DS (which seems doubtful to me) tell him you'll look forward to receiving the court papers (oh, and by the way - I'm almost positive that the court won't get involved until he's attempted mediation first, but again, not your problem - if he wants to go that route, let him).

I will finish tis ridiculousl long post with one further point - a friend had a very similar situation. In her case, he actually DID take her to court. She was, obviously, terrified (he'd trained her well). The judge pretty much laughed at him. At the time, he hadn't turned up for most of his mid-week contact time and was regularly skipping or shortening his weekend time but he really thought that he was going to get custody....

freckledlegs · 12/03/2025 11:18

@GingerIsBest is completely correct. I was terrified when my ex made these threats, and took less money in the divorce just to stop him. It was all delusional bullshit I now see, and yes I was well-trained.

GingerIsBest · 12/03/2025 11:52

freckledlegs · 12/03/2025 11:18

@GingerIsBest is completely correct. I was terrified when my ex made these threats, and took less money in the divorce just to stop him. It was all delusional bullshit I now see, and yes I was well-trained.

Sorry to hear that. But hopefully, notwithstanding getting less in the divorce, you are free of him (emotionally at least?) and living your best life!

orangesonatree · 12/03/2025 13:03

Following 😔

NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 13:06

Stick to your guns on days.

On top of the fact that it makes more sense to do it your way and that he has no real reason for opposing it, when dealing with narcissists the fewer handovers you have the better, for the child and for you.

athenaswrath · 12/03/2025 13:28

NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 13:06

Stick to your guns on days.

On top of the fact that it makes more sense to do it your way and that he has no real reason for opposing it, when dealing with narcissists the fewer handovers you have the better, for the child and for you.

Well now he has a change of heart he can now have her every other Thursday til Sunday yet hours ago he couldn't give up the Friday I asked for but now can? Like what is going on 🤯 this is what I mean he just wants to be awkward and doesn't want to agree with me then gets spiteful then has now agreed to my original agreement but with the added Thursday.

OP posts:
NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 13:35

”just wants to be awkward and spiteful”

= a good summary of the place a narc operates from

athenaswrath · 12/03/2025 13:36

NeedsMustNet · 12/03/2025 13:35

”just wants to be awkward and spiteful”

= a good summary of the place a narc operates from

I just worry because I cannot trust this bloke. He makes me overthink and analyse situations all the time. What if he's doing this to agree to then just not bring her home and keep her I mean few hours ago he said he was going for full custody like my head is just 🤯

OP posts:
GingerIsBest · 12/03/2025 13:39

Obviously, you don't know if he's going to keep her and that is a scary idea. b

But from what you've said here, it seems unlikely to me. He's not exactly dad of the year and appears to prioritise his own life over his dd's. So why would he keep her when he gets just as much out of you ito stress by threatening you?

1111111111111Bum · 12/03/2025 13:39

Been separated from my ex for five years and I still have issues with him.

All comms go via email and any ‘demands’ he makes are usually ignored.

Always keep your cards close to your chest and never disclose anything. Do not rely on him and do not change schedules.

Unfortunately when parenting with someone who will literally use everything and anything to get at you, you need to stonewall.

Chucklecheeks01 · 12/03/2025 13:45

You cant co-parent with a narc, you parallel parent. Keep contact to the bare minimum, only about the kids. You have to learn to grey rock, unless its relevant, anything he says needs to put put in the F"%k it bucket and left. He will try and hurt you , so the more you react, the more he will try.

Its hard at first, I'm nearly ten years in and it does get easier for you, its hard for the kids though. As mine are older we have had some very frank conversations about how we cant control what other people do but we can always set our boundaries and expect people to respect them.

Good luck

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