How to decide when to separate

[Kitty8204]

How do you know when the end has come of a relationship. Been married 16 years and have twins who are 10. Things haven’t been great for the last 2 years. Husband has lost all interest in making any effort at home. He’s so lazy, he’s addicted to his phone, even the kids joke that he’s always on his phone. He will help around the house but only when I ask him to. Our love life has got up and gone predominantly because I have lost any interest in it because I’m always exhausted from trying to keep on top of washing, cleaning, school runs, shopping, and I work 3 days a week as a nurse in a fast paced ward where you barely get time to pee let alone have lunch some days. I don’t want my marriage to end for the sake of the kids as I feel as much as my life would be better, it would be worse for them. They have stability here. If were to split I have no idea how he would cope on his own with them. They’re amazing kids but they can be hard work, both have high functioning autism. They like routine, they don’t like change. Do I just suck it up and put up with things as they are? We’ve talked at length, he knows I am at the end of my rope but he’s making no effort to improve things. I don’t think he has anyone else and he says he isn’t depressed. Keeps saying he’ll step up but I’m still waiting. And he won’t entertain marriage counselling, I’ve asked multiple times but he says that won’t help. Where do I go from here. Anyone else in similar situation?

I would make an appointment with a Solicitor re all aspects of separating and divorce. Do not just suck it up and continue to put up with things as they are; you could well end up having some form of nervous breakdown.

If your life would be better day to day without him in it, it's likely going to be the same for them too. What does he do re his children?. They notice and tell you he is always on his phone. It's likely as well he is not going to bother all that much, if at all with them going forward either given his current behaviour. You provide some semblance of stability at home, he does not. He is paying lip service to the problem and tells you he is going to step up, no he is not and is telling you what you want to hear.

He continues to make no effort into improving things and does not want to enter into marriage counselling. Its over really bar the paperwork.

Thank you, it’s just the kids really holding me back. But yes they are picking up on things, they’re not blind to it. He does things for themwhen I ask him to. If I’m not there, he would let them have endless time on their iPads. He wouldn’t play a game or take them out on their bikes if it was a nice day. He used to, but not nowadays. Thanks for your response.

He’s shown you that nothing is going to change, so you save yourself.
When you split, that will become the new normal for your children, they will adapt.

Divorce has a catastrophic effect on Children. Don’t mind the divorce cheerleaders on here, speak to your husband. Work it out. You did love him once and he you.

Your children are young and need him in their life, everyday and not part-time. Find a good therapist and work things throughZ

It’s too easy to get swallowed up in the industry of divorce.

OP has spoken to her H and he is not interested in sorting things out. What other options are available to her now?. He does not want marriage counselling or a therapist.

Her pre teens children also need a present and emotionally available father and he is now anything but; they are noticing and telling mum that he is spending all his time on his phone.

Divorce, in and of itself, need not be harmful to children. It is the adversarial and contentious process of divorce, if continued, that may wreak damage. Yet research indicates that most children adapt to their new circumstances within a few years. Having two parents successfully move forward with their lives teaches an invaluable lesson: that we deserve to be happy and to feel loved. Conversely, remaining in relationships that perpetuate anger, devaluation, and lack of positive interactions leaves an indelible scar on children.

He’s already part time in their lives. When he’s at home with us he’s mentally checked out most of the time. How can I make him change? It isn’t for the want of trying believe me. It’s been going on for a few years. I can’t force him into counselling so how do you suggest I try to make it work? We had a lengthy chat last summer about his lack of commitment and he agreed to try harder, and that wasn’t the first time we’d discussed it either. But nothing ever changes. I can’t see how we can get past this.

Give him an ultimatum, get into counselling. Do stuff together, one party changing can bring the other along.

My “Walkaway Wife” never did anything to address our issues. She never really complained either. She then refused counselling, it devastated our children.

Despite what he says it clearly sounds like he’s suffering with depression! You need to persuade him to see his GP! If he won’t speak to his GP yourself explain everything and they would hopefully invite him in under the pretext of a wellness check.

It sounds like she's tried that. How do you propose she gets him to counselling if he refuses to entertain it? Bag over the head and chloroform? 🙄

A bad marriage has a catastrophic effect on children. Divorce, if done carefully, can change everyone’s lives for the better.

OP - your problems sound very similar to mine. My exH lost interest, did nothing with the children unless I begged or organised it, was depressed, never changed, did nothing to help with house or children (despite me working more hours than him). I finally asked for a divorce when the children were 8 and 11. My only regret was not doing it sooner. I’m very very glad I didn’t leave it until later. It was a huge adjustment of course, but we did it ‘amicably’ for the kids, stayed in same house for another 2+ years whilst they got used to us developing different lives (one of us would vanish on weekends, turn about, to give the other time with the kids alone. We did separate holidays and separate Christmasses etc). When we finally had our own houses, the children were mostly used to it. It was sorted well in advance of my eldest starting GCSEs.

I will say that my exH is still awful at doing anything with the children unless I plan it or suggest it, but at least when they are with me they have a busy, active life. And I don’t have to pretend I’m okay with his useless behaviour to the world at large. And I have moved on into a wonderful relationship, modelling good, loving relationships to the children. The bad marriage was having a catastrophic effect on the children. The divorce created a new, stable normal that is better for them. And me.

ADHD medication works wonders for this kind of frozen state your husband seems to be in

So does living in a shit atmosphered household. Kids know when a parent isn't happy. Staying 'for the kids' hardly ever works out for their mental health

Thank you, that’s good to hear a similar situation and how it has worked out for the best in the end. Thank you for responding x

God help us, I know now there isn't a problem that can't be fixed by treating for ADHD.

@Boglehead you’re allowing your own bitter experience to colour reality.This is really unhelpful and you seem not to have read or taken in what OP said.
What hurts kids most is not divorce- it’s lack of love, time, care. It’s fighting and acrimony.

No it doesn’t - two happy but separate parents is much better for children than two together but miserable parents. An unhappy home is much more catastrophic, and one person cannot mend a relationship alone

This was me.
I was so miserable. Me and exH were like passing ships in the night, nothing more than roommates who happened to share a few kids. I did absolutely everything at home, including every aspect of the parenting. He genuinely didn’t seem to know what to do with the kids. We’d had so many conversations about all of it, how burnt out I was and that I simply needed help! That went in one ear and out of the other.
I kept talking myself out of leaving. We were extremely lucky to be in a position regarding our housing that meant we didn’t face the pressures that most young families do, we also benefitted from numerous perks of his job that eliminated other financial pressures. I kept telling myself that my kids would suffer if I left.
But actually? The opposite has proven to be true. I left. I applied for UC, found a privately rented house that was a lot smaller than the home we’d shared with exH, but we made it our home. Exh and I came to an agreement about custody out of court, and I picked up a second job which helped boost my income during the time the DC spent with their dad. The biggest positive difference was my mental health. And the DC noticed it. They started pointing out that I was in a better mood and taking more time to play with them and do fun things together. We began to treasure the weekends that they were with me because we would go and do so many fun things that we never did before because their dad was a miserable bugger who’d rather stay at home and play his PlayStation.
We are years down the line now. My DC’s are a bit older, I’m now remarried and DH is the most wonderful stepdad and the DC’s adore him. ExH is also settled with a long-term partner who also gets along with the DCs wonderfully. The way I look at it, my DC’s are better off having two parents and two stepparents who love them and are happy than having their parents stay together for the sake of it and be miserable together. I didn’t want my children growing up thinking that’s what a marriage looks like.

Wow, the first part of your message sounds like us now. Thank you for sharing your story. I’m starting to come round to the thought that my girls may not be as traumatised by it all if we do split. He’s more or less said tonight that it’s when, and not if. He wants out. I had a meeting with Citizens Advice today to enquire about UC so I’m less worried now about managing on my own financially. Hopefully our future will be as yours was for the children, many thanks for responding x

I’m sorry you’re feeling that way - it really is a special circle of hell and the guilt for me was unreal.
I felt like I was being the most selfish person in the world by even thinking about my own happiness, but you know what? I’m a better mother for it.
Children notice everything, no matter how subtle. They a wonderful at “reading the room”. And my DCs have benefitted a million different ways by having a happy mum (and a happy dad for that matter!). I’ll give my ExH and his partner credit where it’s due: she makes him happy and he’s a better dad as a result.

That’s so great for you all. Yeah it’s guilt that’s getting me. And I’m not the one that’s caused any of this. But I’m waking at night having nightmares about things. Thanks again, you’ve made me see there is hope at the end of a very dark tunnel x

As a child of divorced parents, I have to tell you that you are wrong. It might well be for some but of course but it's not universal. I knew my parents were not happy, I knew my mum was miserable and whilst it was a big adjustment then, I was so relieved in the long run for having two happy parents/households

This sounds like where I was a few years ago. My ex DH was never 50/50 (or even close) in how we split household tasks, but over a year or so towards the end he got suddenly and increasingly worse. Also often grumpy with me and the kids, shouting at them for very little and always withdrawn into his own things, never talking or playing with them. I was miserable but felt like I had to try and make it work, for the kids and for him because of what we once had. When we did eventually split I felt so guilty . . .and then within a week he told me he'd met someone else and would be moving in with her! I'm not saying he cheated, but he definitely already knew her and had feelings for her. Now I look back and wonder how much of his rubbish behaviour at the time was actually about the fact that he wanted to divorce but didn't want the responsibility of being the one who called time. All the times I tried to offer second chances, suggest couples counselling etc weren't working because he just didn't want to be there. We eventually separated and it was hard at first but now everyone, including the kids, is doing better. They were struggling at school and now making friends and catching up their learning. I have had to pick up more hours to make ends meet (goodbye lovely non-working Mondays) but am mostly enjoying my job and seeing more of friends at the weekends etc. He's a better parent when he does see them because he wants to be there. It is harder financially, but not impossible, and the money that is there I'm free to prioritise for what the family most needs, whereas before it was largely sucked into how he wanted to use it.

Sounds like he’s checked out and is waiting for you to do the hard work of divorcing as well. Men usually don’t want to leave unless they have someone else lined up to take care of them. How pathetic. But sounds like even if there isn’t OW you are still unhappy and he’s not trying so I would start to look at divorce. It will either shock him to change or he agrees and you know there was no way of it working.

Sometimes you just need to share these feelings. There maybe a change for him that is making him spend more time in his phone.
try spending some time together, go for a coffee, go for a walk and talk about how you’re both feeling.
sometimes relationships go through difficult times. I had felt in a similar situation and we are working through this and I’m glad we are but it’s not easy. Things also happened over time so getting back on track also takes time. It might be worth trying or it might not but at least you will know that you tried everything. Good luck

I would write him a letter and leave it in his work bag. Explain you don’t want to split up but he’s not actively involved in your lives anymore and you’re struggling to continue as things are. Say you’ve written him a letter to help him understand how serious you are. You have then tried everything. Relationships can be brought back to life. It’s not fair if he’s not pulling his weight though. My husband would always spend some time helping the kids with their music or planning things for them. He also does 50:50 with the house so you’re not wrong to be pissed off with how things are. Take care.x