DH thinks boys shouldn't cry - advice needed

[NCMJ]

I am looking for advice on how to get DH to understand emotions better or why it is important to be emotive.
Lately I've been needing some emotional support from DH but am finding his responses a bit cold and so I say things like "I'd appreciate a hug/hand hold."
Today I asked if he wasn't allowed to cry as a little boy. And he replied that boys shouldn't cry. He thinks it doesn't achieve anything. He understands women cry because of hormones but men don't need to. This is me quoting him. I explained how imagine if DD was very unwell in hospital, to break down means to be human. Or if you watched your partner die from a terminal illness, it would be only human to cry. He understands but he thinks it doesn't achieve or change things if you cry.

Other points which are linked to this:
In an old school way, he doesn't understand mental health. The way some older men think it's nonsense.

Does anyone know of a good podcast or audiobook or anything that I could get DH on that would explain the importance of being sensitive or having empathy. Preferably aimed at men and written by men.

There’s not much research into tears - link to a TED talk by a scientist in this field below. Social conditioning and testosterone may both be inhibitors to crying and potentially explain gender differences.

Sounds very positive that you’re both open to counselling, and approaching tough conversations. He may not be naturally empathetic but as he’s receptive to you voicing your needs then I think there’s potential for progress.

He doesn't sound like he's got much emotional intelligence. He's vows on mental health are regressive and I'd be surprised if this is the only area of life he's so regressive regarding. Also the point of crying isn't to achieve or change anything, I'm not sure everything has to have a point either. Is he very practical?

I've read your posts op and you said I didn't say I was surprised re this reaction and seem confused as to why people mention this. I imagine posters are asking about your awareness of this aspect of his character as marrying and having a child with a man who is so emotionally challenged will obviously lead to these issues and leave you unsupported. What would you have done if you did have a boy? How were you expecting this to play out with the numerous normal challenges life presents? I think pp's are asking about it because surprised or not it seems the time to address the issue is prior to marriage and children.

It's ok for him to think and be something different. I think it's too much of a stretch to start to think of his way of being with his own emotions and as a parent as wrong, we are all just doing the best we can. In lots of situations being able to supress or compartmentalise emotions is essential or very helpful - not showing vulnerability when you are standing up to the bully, stepping in to a dangerous situation to protect others (often women and children), dealing with a casualty in A and E, going to war, dealing with verbal abuse in the pub. I don't think the men and women who have this capability innately or who have learned it are lesser - I recognise some of them have learned it through being punished or suppressed or abused. I recognise also that relative empathy deficits - which perhaps tend to be present more in men than in women, not through their choice but their nature and nurture - can negatively affect closeness, relationships or treatment of others and at the extreme, offending behaviour. Your son will need to find a way to be a man in the world as it is, not as you would like it to be, and your dh has lived this in groups of men, he has insights and experience and fears about what happens when you show emotion as a male in his world. We all need to regulate our emotions, and to know how to show and manage them appropriately in public and private. How we guide our children in that is a choice between two undesirable extremes - emotional incontinence and absence of emotion.

My husband would have been handed down some¹ views on life (as we all are I guess) which did not serve him. He was also very prickly and defensive if in any way criticised.

I think the MKP provided a safe and well held environment to explore his ideas about being a man and his masculinity in today's world and his relationships with the male role models in his life.

He has been involved now as a volunteer for over a decade and the changes in him are immense. He is more confident, calmer, more self assured and more compassionate.

I agree with this and think this viewpoint is more emotionally intelligent than the posts suggesting he is emotionally stunted in some way for not being a crier.

I think because you both have completely different ways of expressing emotion it’s important you try to understand one another’s viewpoint without automatically assuming that your way is superior to his. Just because someone doesn’t cry doesn’t mean they don’t have the emotions.

I see crying as a normal development stage of babies and young children who haven’t learnt to manage their emotions yet. I think for adults it’s healthy to cry sometimes, maybe when really overwhelmed or a happy film or grief. But for most situations I’m thinking ‘use your words’ and sometimes I think it can be done in an attention seeking or performative way.

Sadly, your husband‘s attitude is not that uncommon, even today. My husband was brought up in a family where ‘boys didn’t cry’ and he went into adulthood thinking it was a sign of weakness. The idea that men should not cry is rooted in outdated stereotypes of masculinity.

I encouraged him to see how wrong and damaging this was and reinforced that expressing emotions is a sign of strength, not a sign of weakness.

I don’t know how, but something clicked along the way and I have a husband that for decades has been happy to cry when he feels like it. He cried through sheer joy when he proposed, on our wedding day and when our children were born and with pride at their successes in life. He’s cried through frustration that his dad isn’t here to help him when he needs it and through heartbreak when my own dad died. He often cries watching The Repair Shop 😂

We have 2 young adult sons who are not emotionally repressed, unlike many of their peers. Their dad has set a positive example to them by showing his emotions and letting them know it’s perfectly normal. It has allowed much healthier development. They never once converted sadness to anger growing up and they are refreshingly open with their feelings.

We tell boys not to cry, then wonder why the suicide rate so high in young men?

Male here.. You probably need to study the characteristics of different nationalities and what is inbred into us. I wasn't aware until a professional explained it to me after a particularly grievous time in our lives. The English characteristic in a man, is stiff upper lip and life must go on. You won't be able to beat this out of him as it is inbred into most British males. You may be able to understand him though if you do the homework, it is very interesting when you look into different nationalities and their characteristics. I am not really emotional and my boys aren't, but my wife is and I had to learn and understand the differences.

I wonder now whether the much discredited 'stiff upper lip', has some advantages.

My husband was sent away to preparatory school at the age of 7 and only saw his parents during the summer. They lived abroad and it was before the era of international schools. It was undoubtedly the wrong thing for him on all sorts of levels.

But he is extremely good at coping in difficult situations, where a degree of independence and resilience is required, and that is something which has been very useful in our marriage.

I think it's possible that by encouraging children to be hyper aware of their 'big feelings' and their own exceptional worth, by giving them the impression that the adults around them simply have the job of making their path through life easier and more pleasant, we're not doing them any favours.

Particularly as children grow older - whether they are male or female - encouraging them to manage their emotions, which may involve trying to shelve them at inappropriate times - is an important part of parenting.

I remember with an earlyish boyfriend,, regarding the relative ease with which he cried, as a positive. Guy was a total wanker, with many 'issues'. I was wholly misled.

No behavioural characteristics are ‘inbred’. You’re talking about gendered social/cultural conditioning, and the scripts of an individual upbringing, both of which can certainly be altered, if the person wishes, with work.

Yes i never understood either until I researched.

The issue is shame. Men shaming other men for showing emotion. This is because it's seen as female, and our patriarchal society sees that as weak and less than. Shame is damaging. Men should feel able to cry and release their emotions in a healthy way. If they've been raised not too, then I would bet they are showing their feelings as anger instead which is seen as more socially acceptable in men...but we sure have a male anger issue in this world.