Buying a puppy. Breeder applying pressure for payment.

[fandangored]

Breeder applying pressure for payment and asking for transfer or cash payment BEFORE viewing day with puppy at 4 weeks..?

Already paid a £200 pre reserve fee!!!

Should I continue or red flag and run?!

It was absolutely ludicrous.
It was a licence to print money- pumping out labradoodles and cavapoochons {a mishmash mongrel} one woman never let her poo cross off his lead as he was ''so valuable''.... he'd cost £4k.

She didn't say ''Because I love him so'', it was his financial value.

It was like Tulip fever.

Poo fever.

Meanwhile, people with single breeds were looking for good, trustworthy people to join their waiting lists for £900 pups that were sold as ''pets'' but some qualified for Crufts because their conformation was good. {hard to tell at a 9 week old}

No way! We paid a third of the final price during a second viewing. Paid the balance just as we collected her.

If she is following the MVD breeding protocol for the cavaliers they will need heart tests.. i'm assuming she only has Cavvie bitches, but the males would need annual heart tests too.

She should know the heart scores of her bitches parents too, as you can't breed a cavvie if the parents developed MVD before the age of 5.

Why is this in relationships?

They were getting nicked left, right and centre too... so people were getting mugged off when they bought them, just to get actually mugged anyway 🙈

It's nuts! I remember that- dogs being taken from people.

When I had my Lurcher, I had people trying to steal her- but I could run fast and far in those days- also men saying ''That's my dog! Give it back'' trying to be intimidating. Thankfully I wasn't physically attacked for her.

Yesterday I met a woman who was walking a neighbour's French Bulldog- He had come from a Greeder who had made a fortune over lockdown, but had to lower the prices afterwards as they weren't shifting .

The dog thankfully doesn't seem to have BOAS {He was chasing my sighthound around without having difficulty breathing} but his walker said dogs were still being stolen if they were a ''desirable'' type.

I'm slightly {Very} worried about your insistence of a dog being ''good with children''..

NO BREED is guaranteed to be ''good with children''.

NO MONGREL /Crossbreed either.

Poodles and these crosses can be highly neurotic and snappy.

I'd not recommend that any child under 9 get a dog, and they must also be very respectful of a dog's space- Dogs aren't ''toys''.

For a dog to be good with children, the child has to understand dogs, too- no grabbing of the dog's face, or getting into the dog's face, or disturbing a sleeping dog, or snatching a toy away-

Any breed can bite a child- Temperament is very heritable, and is also affected very much by good socialisation and appropriate exercise.

A dog not exercised enough is likely to be ''naughty'' out of boredom.

Bank statements?! Massively OTT. As a pp said, salary slips at a max, but I’d walk if someone asked that. You could have references from my vets, big and small animals and see that all bills are paid immediately, even the £12K. I’d say that’s a much better way of ensuring a puppy would be well looked after financially if it wasn’t the first ever dog.

Why on earth are you still going to the viewing with cash in hand, after all you’ve read on here?!

Seriously OP, you’ve been an absolute fool. If you’d bothered to do your research, you’d realise there are plenty of breeds suitable for your family’s needs.

I’d just message the breeder and say that you’ve decided not to proceed. You’ll lose £200 but at least you can the take the time over the next few months to find the right breeder and the right puppy.

When she says “girls” she is referring to her breeding bitches. She likely doesn’t own the male dogs (studs). That is fairly normal but note she says “girls” so she likely has several dogs she breeds from so whilst there needs to be an element of trust, you are right to question any red flags. £2500 is an enormous amount of money for a non-KC pup but even more so for a mixed breed. I have working dogs so I wouldn’t consider a mixed breed but some of the finest puppies bred from field trial champions do not sell for £2500 (just for perspective).

She should have health tested the dam (mother dog) well before she bred from her. Hopefully, she hasn’t communicated that properly as if the dam’s health tests are poor, she has puppies already!! You also need to see sire (father dog) health tests because what good is seeing 50% of the information.

Write a list of all the health tests and when you look at the certificates, you need to be clear what is good and what is bad! Elbows need to be 0 (1 is bad and means they have osteoarthritis), hips should be even I.e your aiming for 2:2 not 2:8. The lower the better! You want them to be unaffected (0 score) for eye tests and all DNA health testing should be clear (this includes AMS/AON etc).

Girl cockers! Or too big? They will be I think £1500-£2000 these days

I have twins, they are 5yo, she’s had her fair share of ears and tail pulled and she’s good as gold. (I taught her bite inhibition).

Contact the Kennel Club who can provide you with a list of reputable breeders. The breeder you're dealing with now is clearly dodgy and one to be avoided at all costs.

She should have health tested the dam (mother dog) well before she bred from her. Hopefully, she hasn’t communicated that properly as if the dam’s health tests are poor, she has puppies already!! You also need to see sire (father dog) health tests because what good is seeing 50% of the information.

The breeder does say in her latest message that she gets them tested annually. I'd definitely want to know how many "them" is though.

She also says dam and sire's health certificates will be able to be viewed when OP visits again.

Thank you all for your insight and things to look for! I won't be proceeding as I don't trust her.

Take a look at dogshouse - at least once a week someone is struggling with their spaniel showing serious behavioural (usually aggression) issues.

OP is a novice dog owner, she shouldn’t get a dog that’s so prone to going wrong in the wrong hands, which tbh OP almost certainly is for a dog like a cocker. Cockers are lovely, but not for people who don’t know what they’re doing - and OP wants hypoallergenic anyway, which cockers definitely are not.

Wasn’t it argued in this thread that crosses with poodles are not hypoallergenic either?

yeah, I read about aggression in some cockers, but it seems like (if I remember rightly) it’s in male cockers and it is genetic traceable to some champion from the 1930s.

@aster10 so you trained your dog not to bite when in pain. Lovely. Children shouldn't be allowed to pull tails and ears. When they get bitten it's the dog that's blamed when it's the owners fault.

Cockerpoos and poodle crosses are not guaranteed to be hypoallergenic - that’s why so many end up in rescues - and it’s widely accepted by both cocker and poodle breeders that cockerpoo ‘breeders’ use the ‘hypoallergenic’ thing as a marketing gimmick. They may be less likely to produce a reaction - but that is not guaranteed. It’s a mongrel at the end of the day so you can easily end up with the worst traits of both breeds (neurotic, not hypoallergenic, intelligent, nervous, high energy etc).

And you’re wrong on what you’re describing. You’re thinking of ‘cocker rage’ which comes equally across both sexes and cannot really be diagnosed. It doesn’t show up in scans, or in blood work or anything. Too many people yell ‘cocker rage’ - particularly on mumsnet - when actually what is going on is standard aggression as a result of piss poor ownership. Far too many owners crying ‘cocker rage’ to hide their own failings as an owner.

Cockers are prone to general aggression - as any dog is. The issue with cockers is they’re bought by incompetent, deluded, nitwits 99% of the time - people who should have got a cuddly toy and not a dog. People who fail to train them or stimulate them and got them because ‘their child wanted a puppy.’ People who didn’t research and have no clue about dog ownership. People like OP who, being quite frank, has demonstrated repeatedly on this thread why she should not be considering buying a puppy - but likely will anyway.

Agree so much with all of this.
So many unsuitable owners about who haven't a clue, and who don't research and think one can order a dog like one might a toy from Amazon

''Sprockerwockerdoodaahs are hypoallergenic and so good with children''

Google says there are NO 100% ''hypoallergenic dogs'' anyway.

People who want these non shedders often forget to factor in regular grooming as well, so the hair mats painfully, as it keeps on growing.

Just wish the dog breeding scene was very tightly regulated and ownership was as well.

So many dogs are bought on whim and don't have their needs met, and end up either as a complete liability or are given up to a rescue centre ''coz allergies'' {the most frequent excuse}

People assume satin coated dogs are ''hypoallergenic'' as well..but they absolutely are not.

Don't get any dog or animal if you think you will be allergic to it.

NO dogs are hypoallergenic. Some can be less likely to provoke an allergic response. But nothing is a guarantee. Especially with a mix. Then you have no idea exactly how much a dog will take after any parent. Far better to get an adult rescue you can spend time with before rehoming or an actual pedigree you have discovered you don’t react to. (I’m allergic to many dogs but not mine. Although do seem to react to the pups! 🤦‍♀️)

OP, do you honestly have time and space (mental and physical) to raise a puppy just now? Any puppy?

Do you have someone there during the day (not just for the first week or so -- puppies need to pee!), a good local vet, a local training class, a dog sitter or kennels for holidays or even days out?

Mine is over a year old and still can't be left more than two hours at a stretch, though we're working on it.

No dog is truly hypoallergenic, it's just some are less likely to cause reactions - poodles being one. So a cockapoo will probably be less likely to trigger someone than a full cocker... but there's no guarantees. I know someone with a cockapoo that has a cocker coat... I never guessed it had poodle in it, so it more than likely won't be any different to a purebred allergy wise.

You can tell sonetimes, even from birth, which poodle crosses have inherited more poodle coat by their waves, even before their coat has come through properly.

OP, please take note of this and do not get a cocker spaniel.

Cockers are fabulous, intelligent dogs with a loving nature BUT only in the right hands. They are not a first time dog owner type dog, and that is even more the case when people don’t research properly/ get a crap breeder and end up with a working cocker.

I would contact a highly recommended local trainer, ask them for some advice on what breed they think would match with your family, they may even recommend a good breeder, and go from there. Do not buy a dog on the advice of some random on the internet that says “my Frodo is the best dog ever”.

Nicki Glencross, Trustee of UK charity Spaniel Aid, says, “What was once referred to as ‘cocker rage’ – a term we never use – is a neurological, seizure-like issue which causes an aggressive burst followed by a trance-like state. It is extremely rare and far from exclusive to spaniels.“

https://dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/2023/07/21/the-persistent-myth-of-cocker-rage/