February 2025 Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

A new thread indeed!.

@CheekySnake I dont think they do think we somehow navigated our way through shit childhood and we are fine. I DONT THINK THEY CARE ENOUGH TO GIVE IT ANY THOUGHT!
My mum actually said to me several times that she must have been a good mum because I was so successful and happy!! as if she had made me brilliant......absolute deluded cunt!

@binkie163 DH says, very selfish, very self-absorbed.

I have a very deep seated sense of being invisible.

Isn’t it crazy that it can be as simple as this and your life is ruined. A parent too busy dealing with their own mental health and trauma to be able to see the child. That child then just assumes (wrongly) that they just aren’t good enough to be seen. My own mum suffered depression and bouts of anger and was extremely victim and blaming. Not a narc like some on here but not healthy.

Hello all, I never thought this was a thread for me but recent events have made me do a lot of thinking, plus I now have a teenage daughter and our relationship is so different to my relationship with my mother, I think I’ve realised I’m trying to be the mother I needed.

About 2 years ago my father got sick, very out of the blue. He has recovered, but not fully and does need some care. While he was still in hospital my brother decided to stop talking to me. Stopped responding to texts from me or my husband, completely blanked us in public, even in front of people. I think he also started making subtle comments about me and my family to my mother, based on what she said to me. I think it was based on inheritance and him ensuring he got what he wanted. He has spent the last year and a half or so subtly pushing me out of the family, while making it look like I’m the one at fault.

He is due to get married this summer and I declined the invitation.

I got text messages from his fiancée basically trying to guilt trip me into going, saying how everyone will be upset. No mention of his behaviour or how upsetting it has been for me.

All through this my mother has basically just expected me to allow him to do as he pleases and be a good daughter. She constantly praises him, expects me to listen to how wonderful he is etc.

Anyway, it has now presumably got back to her that I’m not going to the wedding. She seems to have decided his behaviour is correct as she has not answered or returned my calls or responded to texts. I sent flowers for Mothers Day, which were delivered, and no acknowledgment.

I expected phone calls trying to convince me to go to the wedding, I was prepared for that, but just cutting contact without even talking to me has surprised me. I suppose it proves that I’m not important to her and that her darling son can do no wrong.

All this has made me reflect on my childhood again and how she just scared and manipulated me into being a quiet and model daughter, for fear of upsetting her and disappointing her.

I don’t know how much sense any of that makes, but reading through all your posts has helped me think through a lot of this. I don’t really know what to do now, partly I’m relieved as if she won’t talk to me the stress of phone calls is gone, but I also feel the need to get her to understand the hurt my brother has caused, and her in condoning his behaviour.

Thanks for reading

@tinaabbot families like ours are shit. It is capitulate to them completely or be made miserable. At least they have made NC easy for you. Trust your gut, if you think this is about inheritance it probably is. Brother will continue his campaign enabled by your mum, he is the golden child. However when the shit hits the fan and either parent needs their arse wiping I suspect brother won't want to do it! He will expect you or his wife to do the demeaning tasks. I had similar situation where both siblings had sponged off parents for years. When my mum became house bound both parents expected that assistance paid back 10 fold as personal servants, my siblings hated that I wouldn't help! I had never asked for money so felt no obligation to.
Life isn't fair but I am a firm believer in payback.

@tinaabbot I'm so sorry you're in this situation. It sucks. Families, especially ones with an unhealthy dynamic, are so bloody weird. Worth remembering that children in the same family experience very different upbringings and even in some ways different parents.

Whatever has led to your brother deciding to behave this way, that's on him. I wouldn't make assumptions about why he's done it because at the end of the day, you don't know, and even if you ask him, you might not get a truthful answer. There was an invite to the wedding, though, so maybe that could have been an opportunity to quietly return to the fold, though again, if you don't want to go, you don't have to. Do you feel the invite was for appearances, really? So that other people wouldn't see that things aren't right in the family?

The key thing, though, is that you need to let go of the hope that you can make your mother understand. It's OK to feel and acknowledge that you have it, but you also need to be realistic. You might never be able to make her understand. This is out of your control. And maybe it's OK that she doesn't understand. It's not the end of the world, although it hurts, I know it does. Let her sulk and stew and take his side if she wants. Wedding always have a really weird effect on families, at least in my experience, especially if the siblings have a tricky relationship. As do babies and money.

For now it's about you. That's what matters. x.

I think it’s devastating when you discover a narc parent, almost like you want to go back to not knowing. That realisation that none of your relationships with parents and siblings are ever going to be the same. I think there is an awful lot of silent competition and resentment between siblings. No one will believe you because they don’t have the same experience. Most siblings have pretty similar experiences with parents but with these the experiences are worlds apart. The loss is huge and the amount of head work we have to go through is horrible. We have to make cold decisions and we must look to outsiders as awful people and that’s such a heavy feeling to carry. It’s very difficult to not give a f—k when you are warm and caring and empathetic people at heart. Also to expect others to care about us and to understand if only we can explain it in a way they will understand. It’s all normal ways of behaving but they don’t work in these families. These narcs are awful, they just destroy the family.

tinaabbot ''I also feel the need to get her to understand the hurt my brother has caused, and her in condoning his behaviour.''

This will be hard to hear, but that need is going to hold you back. They won't acknowledge they are doing anything wrong and you wont get closure from them.
Focus on talking to a therapist who understands the dynamics of narcissistic families, the scapegoat and golden child. The hardest part can be coming to terms with the fact your family is too damaged to meet your needs.

tinaabbot you'll be gaslit, try not to chase an acknowledgement that won't happen.

Cheeky snake yes I identify with the "invisible" situation, unless I was doing what they wanted - giving information, listening to moaning, making things ok. There were a number of specific times I remember one of us being literally forgotten because we weren't needed at that moment and so weren't busy doing something they wanted. Ignored as if invisible whilst in the same room. Setting off on a trip and leaving one behind in the house and having to go back when another reminded them. Not noticing for days that I wasn't there at all.

I came across something today about extreme self sufficiency resulting from trauma:
Those of us who never ask for help and perhaps don't know how, it's not because we never learned. A toddler, even a baby knows how to ask for help, we're all born knowing. We don't know because it was trained out of us.
When something awful occurs and we don't ask for help or we keep it secret - that's not the original trauma, it's secondary. The original trauma is whatever actions or words taught us there's no point asking for help because it isn't there, we won't be truly seen and heard or helped in whatever is the appropriate way.

Thank you all so much for your replies. So many things are ringing true for me that I never even considered before. It’s a bit shocking really. My brother is a lot younger than me, so I was at university when he was a teenager, it’s almost like they raised two only children, they even joked about me being a practice.

The pride in my achievements was just so she could boast to people about them. She’s still talking about not getting a new coat because I needed a textbook….. and I’m nearly 50! My brothers achievements were so much greater (even though they actually weren’t) He seems to have a chip on his shoulder about not actually being better than me.

I’m rambling now, there is just so much in my head.

Just to answer one or 2 things people said. My brother lives next door to my parents, in a house they gave him, but he actually does seem to help them out a good bit, I think.
The wedding invitation was issued because if he didn’t invite me he’d have to acknowledge that he didn’t speak to me and had caused the rift. I suppose he has got what he wanted now, I’m the one who took action and caused the problem

How did I get to this age without realising my childhood was messed up???????

@tinaabbot oh my he lives next door in a house they bought him. He is seriously enmeshed. Thank your lucky stars you aren’t the golden child!

@SamAndAnnie Going on a trip and leaving a child behind is bonkers. Just bonkers. I know what you mean about not being able to ask for help. It's something I have massively struggled with and I'm still working on. The message I got was that help wasn't coming if I needed it, but at the same time, I was expected to step up and offer help without people having to ask or I was selfish and thoughtless. I had to anticipate their needs. I spent a lot of time through into my twenties waiting for this to be reciprocated but it never was (it was actually my wedding when my relationship with my mother really began to die - I went into it thinking this is the time when she'll put me first and I'll be a bit spoiled because that's what parents do when their children get married, right? Lol no. I still get upset about it even now.)

@tinaabbot We are similar in age, and it's interesting to see what you said about the age gap between you and your sibling - my sibling is a lot younger than me and I feel like an only child. I can see in hindsight (have realised this only recently) that my mother effectively stopped parenting me when he was born, because she had a baby to play with instead. My own kids are teens now and it's obvious how much parenting teens need that I didn't get. He still gets a lot of support. The funny thing is, when you listen to her talk about him, she doesn't even like him. FWIW I was estranged from my father, permanently, from my late teens (when my parents divorced) until he died a couple of years ago. I knew that there was something very wrong in the relationship with my mother for a long time. As I hardly saw her I was able to ignore it for the most part, and not deal with it, but that's changed in the past couple of years and I'm having to deal with some of it now and it's really hard. I'm still unpicking childhood stuff now. I think you hit the wall when you hit it, and sometimes it does take a long time, because it's a very difficult thing to face, knowing that your own mother doesn't like you all that much. Oh and FWIW, I found out recently that the siblings have been getting money for years. I haven't had anything at all.

@Happyfarm That’s a very good point! I always imagined myself living in that house, I loved it, but perhaps it was a lucky escape!

@CheekySnake Yes! Teenagers need so much parenting. My mother just yelled and rolled out the silent treatment if I did something wrong (and when I say wrong, stuff that my teen does that just makes me roll my eyes and laugh generally). There was no real support and no affection.

Generally I actually feel lighter now, I’m sure there is a lot of unpicking of stuff to do, but maybe the first step of acknowledgement was the hardest.

The one thing I feel bad about is my father, he was the much better parent, but because of his health I can’t talk to him if she won’t answer the phone.

Hello. Not sure why I'm writing here. I hope you'll indulge my rant. I'm spiralling on my own right now.

I have written here before about my terrible mother. (Background, my father left and cut contact when I was 10, raised by mum alone since then. She has teased me about being autistic since I was 10 and she started working as a special needs teacher. I am actually autistic but she didn't bother to help or get me a diagnosis - I did that by myself when I was late 30s, I'm 40 now. I had a violent brother who she let beat me up through my childhood. I bought a house round the corner from her (unfortunately. Before I'd realised she was terrible. And before I'd had a shitload of therapy) and very much low contact, grey rock, only keep in touch with her because she sees my brother's 5 kids. And I love them. But have little contact with my brother.)

My mother's husband of 10 years has had a massive stroke and is on palliative care in hospital. And I feel like a terrible person because my first thought was a selfish dread of what involvement and support of mother while she grieves I will be expected to do. And there will be a heavy expectation. I know I don't have to meet those expectations, but it's hard. I have a bodily reaction to being near my mother, and can't bear to talk with her. I've just been keeping up appearances in the lowest key way possible.

I used to make massive effort to spend time with my mother. Then she met her husband and completely ditched me for him. She knew I would be alone on Christmas as my husband was working, but told me she wanted to have Christmas alone with her new husband. Now he's died it's she going to want me to be on Christmas duty for her. Because I have a great Christmas pj and Lego Christmas tradition my husband and I don't want to change that. (This is spiralling. I know I don't have to think about Christmas in march)

Think I'm going to give my old therapist a message and book some more sessions.

Thank you for being a space where I can safely get these thoughts out of my head.

@GreggsVeganSausageRoll I'm sorry you've got such a rotten lot. X. It's not easy, is it? I've been in a similar situation over the past few years as my mother was widowed quite unexpectedly and basically I felt like she rocked up, having pretty much ignored me for the best part of 20 years, expecting me to step up because she's now on her own. I feel guilty about it, but I haven't. Christmas has been an issue because one of her priorities has been making sure she's got that covered. I hadn't seen her at Xmas for 18 years. She stayed last Xmas and I found it so hard. I just wanted to ask her why are you here? Really? She ignored my kids, moaned constantly, and only got off the sofa when there was food on the table. She treats me like a maid. It won't happen this year. I'm prepared now, ready to say no.

I would definitely reach out to your therapist and be ready to put that boundary in. She cannot visit at Xmas if you don't want her to. It's ok to say no. It's fine. It's hard, but it's doable. X.

Hi everyone. I wanted to ask a question about my dad using - trying to use - my inheritance as a way to kind of reel me in. I can't put my finger on it but it's been bothering me for some time.
About 6 years ago, we were in a phase where we were getting along well. It's always been up and down with him. He took me through what's in his will as he quite earnestly wanted me to know. (He's not ill!) Anyway that felt very 'adult' in a way, but since then he's mentioned it a few times in ways that seem off to me.
Our relationship has deteriorated quite a bit what with one thing and another, but I was really shocked to be sort-of accused of waiting for him to die so I could get his money. And again, told that the inheritance wouldn't be equal, as though I was even asking about it. Last week he tried to get me interested in 'an account where your inheritance is sitting'. I am not very interested because I am not thinking about his money! It is as simple as that. I have never asked him for money because as a teenager he made it clear I would get nothing from him and was on my own. I worked after school, bought all my own clothes, tampons, etc. I worked through university and he gave me a bit but nothing like an allowance iyswim. I don't rely and never have relied on him for support of any kind.
What is going on? It's quite a new development in our awful relationship.

@TokyoKyoto it’s not uncommon for older people to obsess over what they’re leaving, and also to try to use it to control people. Just keep breezily telling him you’re not interested and change the subject. Last time FIL did it to me I said he was talking about money a lot, did he need to borrow some? That shut him up.

@GreggsVeganSausageRoll depends how hard you’re feeling. Maybe just no, we have our little family routine for Christmas, but we might be able to see you in the 27th.

It honestly racks me right off how they expect to just waltz in and out and we’re supposed to just sit waiting on them.

Thanks - yes it might be that he's getting on a bit, and in combination with his terrible personality and quite open dislike of me, that's how it's coming out. It's quite upsetting, really. I keep thinking, just how many ways can you find to create this awful version of me?

Was this from where Gabor Mate talks about this in the podcast with Mel Robbins? . She gets sexually assaulted and doesn't tell anyone, he tells her the assault is not the trauma, it's as you have explained, the trauma was the thing that made her not tell her parents. I found that really powerful he also talks about how no siblings have the same childhood.

@TorroFerney I just watched that episode, found it really interesting

I was told that’s often how trauma develops differently from ptsd to c-ptsd. Trauma that you go through alone and is never dealt with tends to become c-ptsd.

Yes thats the one torro

The message I got was that help wasn't coming if I needed it, but at the same time, I was expected to step up and offer help without people having to ask or I was selfish and thoughtless. I had to anticipate their needs.

Yep. Same, cheekysnake. Led me into a lot of toxic relationships. I looked up one day and realised 50% of my friends were users.

She’s still talking about not getting a new coat because I needed a textbook….. and I’m nearly 50!

I've met someone who does this too! Always mentioning how despite needle phobia she had all the blood tests in pregnancy. Says it to her DC, like she's done them a huge favour. It always strikes me as weird every time she says it, but I'm not sure why. Does anyone know what's behind it? Is it trying to get sympathy? Or trying to make DC feel guilty? Or what? It does sound a bit boastful but it's such a weird thing to boast about, I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a boast or not.

@SamAndAnnie I've had a similar experience with friends. I can see now that my own weird behaviours meant that I attracted a certain type of person and in the end I gave up because it was just easier. I'm happy in my own company and I married well, so it could be a lot worse.

I think the 'but look what I sacrificed for you' brigade genuinely think they deserve praise for doing the smallest normal thing that someone else might benefit from. I often find that that type of person tends to keep score, too.