February 2025 Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

A new thread indeed!.

Friendly Reminder

You are not your mother; you are a person entirely separate from her. To your eternal credit instead you sought therapy and have made much progress. The toxic cycle stopped with you. Life can be hard going with two children under two and you may want to talk to your GP about PND. At the very least continue to talk to your therapist.

Do you feel angry because you feel powerless?. Thats not true btw. You are in control of your own life. You can decide who can and cannot come into it. You do not have to maintain or at all continue any sort of a relationship with your mother, you owe her nothing of the sort. When you take control and deny her control you can be free. And your anger can subside.

@FriendlyReminder Life is hard at times. Even folk with good childhoods find hardship and gain trauma along the way. Throw in hormones and family stress and it’s a bit of a perfect storm. Make sure you aren’t being overly hard on yourself because it will pass as it inevitably always does.

I sometimes think we villainies these parents when they really are just normal humans with unhealthy behaviours. We are scared to be like them but we aren’t because we have self awareness and when we recognise an unhealthy behaviour in ourselves we do something about it. We live in a different world to our parents. Mental and emotional health was non existent but now our kids are taught in school about it. It’s no wonder a lot of parents ended up how they did because they were told to be seen and not heard.

Agree, we can get oddly addicted to the poor behaviour and drama can’t we. It doesn’t matter why they do it, they do it and at some point the analysing energy has to be put into something else. A good vent is therapeutic but we must not get stuck in that vent.

@VioletLemon Christ what an awful situation. My first response is to say absolutely NC you and your husband owe the dad nothing. I dont think healing from that level of abuse can happen when exposed to any triggers.

There is an excellent group called 'First step' it is a men only support & counselling for survivors of sexual abuse. https://firststepleicester.org.uk/
a close friend had a complete breakdown when his memories resurfaced and they were fantastic, they also do counselling for the partners/friends to understand how to support. It is hard not to be angry on their behalf. It was back in 1997 so I cant remember much of it from the support side, just that he was so ok after, completely whole again
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Also do a search of 'stately homes 2021-2023 put in @MonkeyfromManchester and read all her thread. She supported her husband through shocking family shit and grief, her story will help give you faith. Her husband had trauma therapy and it was very successful for him, she is still dealing with the fallout a year after the parent died.

You must do whatever feels right for you and your husband, nobody elses opinion matters (especially family) you must feel so sad and angry on his behalf. I know I wanted to go round with a baseball bat for my friend but the first step counsellor said not an appropriate response and I had to rein my feelings in. It has to be about his feelings, Im not sure how to explain this but they have feelings of powerlessness and any over protective caring is also riding over their power or something like that.

I wish you and your husband nothing but love xxx stay strong xx

@FriendlyReminder I hear you about feelings & emotions, they are shit. Learning to sit with them is seriously uncomfortable. Its having the time and space to do it, not easy in family life. I did judo for years for my anger, now I prefer tug of war with my big dogs or walking. You need a pressure release.

Your therapist is spot on that we are afraid of achievements & happiness in case it gets snatched away, so hard to trust with our childhoods but we can trust ourselves.

You are not your mum, we all have bits, christ I want to spit when I traipse out old parental sayings. Brussels will put hair on your chest, dont scuff your feet, are you going to stand in doorways all day long, ahh the big fella has his falling down shoes on. I parrot them out! I bet their parents said it as well but we are more than a sum of their parts. You are looking for your mum where she doesnt belong, in your head.

Do you know what would help you? we often know but dont want to ask?
Congratulations on your family milestone xx

That's shit, I can't stand people who can't get up the gumption to leave a relationship unless there's another lined up. I also think people who don't just pick up their kids and run are twats. If they can't save themselves at least save their kids. I think you're da bomb just to still be alive.

F

@FriendlyReminder I struggle to accept success, too, so you are not alone. All I can see is the parts that aren't quite good enough or didn't quite work. I can't enjoy it, even when it's the sort of success that I know logically is rare and unusual and is success by any measure. I just feel shame that I didn't do better. It's a hangover from my father. Nothing I ever did was good enough, and he made sure I knew it. I can't trust praise. FWIW I had something happen in my career last year, an absolute once in a lifetime achievement, and completely fell apart afterwards. I don't know how to deal with the feelings at all.

friendlyreminder can you do a simple analysis of what the physical patterns are preceeding any poor behaviour? Questions to ask are do you drink any alcohol? How is your caffeine intake? What's happening with sugar?

It's difficult with such young children but are you getting any peaceful time in nature? I think connecting with the natural world and animals is a lifesaver.

Think about brain cooling things rather than brain heating ie a nice smoothie full of vitamins rather than a coffee. When I get back to my completed house I'm going to take my own advice 🤣

Seriously though, I would say keep solutions really simple and doable. Praying (centreing) / acknowledging helps me to reconnect with the natural world. I don't mean Jesus but trees and wind and sun, anything.

My brain is delicate after all the shit and I try to treat it with respect with regard to anything that heats it, ie doom scrolling.

From: The Tree Hugger.

Just talking about myself but I personally found therapy not helpful. I appreciate that many many people do. I didn't find it helpful because I don't want to voluntarily go on about it. Probably flawed thinking but I prefer to just slam doors shut and lock them.

We don’t all process things the same way, our brains are all so different, no one way is better then another I don’t think it’s just what works.

That's very kind of you to say. But yes, she's one of those people who had to be in a relationship. I sometimes think how different it could have been if she'd left when I was young, say 5 or 6, and we'd had time when it had just been the two of us and there had been room to heal and grow. But then obviously that would have required her to be someone that she's not. When she did move on, she then prioritised the second marriage over everything else including her kids, so here we are.

Thank you very much, to all of you who have replied sharing your experience and tips: you've given me so much to consider... 🙏 I'll come back later 💐

I think it’s very wrong to judge someone for not leaving an abusive situation unless you have experienced being on the other end of intimate abuse. So many people say I’d not do that if I was that situation. Being abused, raped, beat emotionally beat on a daily basis by your partner is extremely difficult. A lot of the time the enabler has been abused into a shell also with many MH issues. There were many of these ladies in my freedom program group with children, they no longer knew up
from down they could not save their children. It’s so sad for them all.

I have similar around celebrating success. In my warped mind I feel the congratulations is tinged with a “and we are saying this as we thought you were bloody useless so your achievement well it’s a real surprise”. Or I think to myself why wouldn’t I get the new job/promoted etc. stupid really. I envy people who can wholeheartedly celebrate!

I understand this, if I do well at something I think it’s a fluke and I don’t like to tell people. Think it is linked to lack of praise in childhood I had none from either parent which is sad as I came top at school. Other peoples parents were pleased though which shows how mad it is

I think a lot of us here also have imposter syndrome. I am at the top of my male dominated industry in engineering, I am semi retired (64) but I still get the odd moment where I check myself.

I've been thinking in what you all said to me and I am so grateful for this forum... In my day to day life (with the exception of my DH, my therapist and my good friend, who lives 300 miles away), I don't speak about this with absolutely anyone. So being able to write my thoughts without having to provide endless context and details is priceless.

Attila, I think you hit the nail on the head when you asked if I felt powerless at the moment. And the answer is yes. I do. And it's ironic really, because the thing I've achieved has a tremendous symbolic meaning for me, given my family culture. In other words, it is a declaration of my power, and a separation from my foo and my mother's reach. And yet I feel like I'm weak and tired all the time, and like I haven't contributed at all to this. I can't win: if it's my success, it's to the detriment of having a relationship with my own family roots; if it's not my success, why should I benefit from it. As you see, I always lose, with this mindset.

Some of you mention PND and, while certainly I have some days where I'd definitely seem to fit the diagnosis criteria, I don't believe I am depressed. My hormones may well be playing a role, but my circumstances right now are really stressing. (My children are both under 5, not under 2, btw: stressful nonetheless because we have no childcare help available for the moment). Anyway, it's something I'll be keeping in check.

Dog, fellow Tree Hugger here: just two days ago I went for a walk to the outskirts of my town. I instantly felt a physical longing while my gaze wandered through the fields. The mountains, the trees...how much had I missed them. I love birds and suddenly I was recognizing their songs and I felt so much at peace... It's been too long since I was in contact with nature and I hadn't even notice how much my body longed for it. And, all the time, it was as easy as a 10 minute walk to the fields outside of town.
I find that the things that benefit me more, that nourish my soul, are the ones I find more difficult to do: and yet, they are objectively the easiest! Walking, listening to music, reading, writing, peting my dog... Why do I procrastinate doing them?
It must be self sabotage, but I don't know how to end it.

CheekySnake, binkie and others who have mentioned being unable to process your achievements/successes: I feel less alone. I feel frustrated because sometimes that's all my therapist says (we've developed our own inside jokes about it even), that all that's happenning to me is me "paying a pledge" for daring to succeed. But she seems to be right every single time! (Now I'm aware I've became one of those cliché people who is always "my therapist says..." 😳).

binkie, you say: "You are looking for your mum where she doesnt belong, in your head". You couldn't be more right. She lives rent free there, I admit. But my gosh... it is frightening hearing my voice getting like hers and, as you say, repeating verbatim some of her and my father's expressions...

And happyfarm thank you for saying that it will pass, and that I need to be careful about being too hard on myself.

I need to get out of this anxious estate. Writing here and reading your replies is helping inmensely 🙏

I find that the things that benefit me more, that nourish my soul, are the ones I find more difficult to do: and yet, they are objectively the easiest! Walking, listening to music, reading, writing, peting my dog... Why do I procrastinate doing them?
It must be self sabotage, but I don't know how to end it.

I struggle with this too.

It's the subconscious message we received from society, from birth, that these things are worthless.

We're only ever praised and celebrated for making money or acquiring things by spending money.

You pass a maths exam - fantastic! You're so clever. Let's go out to dinner. You pass an art exam - and? Shrugged shoulders, who cares. Your child gets top grades in drama, art, PE and music. But they failed got low grades in maths, English and science. They're less than "not academic" (even though these things are all part of the curriculum). Ah well. Your child gets a decent pass grade in maths, English and science, scrapes a pass in everything else: people they don't even know (parents friends) are congratulating them, because those other exams don't matter. Don't even get me started on languages - everyone speaks English, don't they?

Even if you're frugal it's still just the ability to obtain something without spending much money that's being praised. It's all about money. The jobs with the highest salaries have the highest social status. The richer you are the more people treat you as more important, from the manners they show to the way they're more likely to defer to you even if they disagree. Even if they're hating on you for being rich/posh it's because of your wealth/their jealousy - and they're probably not daring to do it to your face like they would if they wanted to hate on someone else.

As a society people look down on those who have less. Eg travellers are seen as theives who don't pay for anything ever. People living off-grid in self-sufficiency are seen as weird, eccentric and scruffy and not to be taken seriously. People on benefits are scroungers playing the system who you side-eye and gossip about. People in developing countries have no lives and are to be pitied. Homeless people/old people scraping by/disabled people stuck at home without support to get out - all are invisible because they are seen as having nothing and therefore being nothing.

Any history, culture, identity, relationships, hobbies, families, jobs even - anything that constitutes a life - is ignored and dismissed because these people aren't seen as being part of the capitalist rat-race. They are "other" and don't count.

This is the social narrative -
So you went for a walk in the fresh air? So what? Air is free! You want a gold medal just for breathing?!

It's hardwired into our brains and most are unaware of it.

friendlyreminder I'm glad you went for a walk and communed with nature. I think that's an achievement that you got outside and followed through with something nourishing. Well done and I'm going to copy you tomorrow.

samandannie I know, it makes me feel ill the narrative of 'less than' but if you stop and really think about it, that's mostly the media. Our foos have utterly twisted value systems so they're to be utterly discounted.

If they disapprove then we're doing something right.

I'm the opposite to most of you I think, I don't think I'm a failure even though I have 'failed' by most of society's measures.

I have my own belief system and I think I'm a massive success to not have been destroyed or to have become a vapid, facile narc.

I once said to Dad 'you'd love me more if I was rich, thin and sporty' and he agreed!

We are all in a fog from the day we are born, only instead of a parent in charge it’s the government. The most happy people I know have their minds out of society and their hands in the dirt (literally in the garden). This is one positive from this experience, my beliefs are being erased and placed with things that actually make me happy. It’s an amazing lesson to pass to your kids, that literally we are here to be happy, not rich or successful, that’s all a lie. This experience has forced us to go back to absolute basic and that is not a bad thing.

My mother is back to sending me links to news articles as a pretext to asking about my health 🙄It's so interesting to sit with my reaction to it. I know, obviously, that this is a normal question (within the context of a normal relationship - but then again, is it? Because it's private business, isn't it, even if you know someone well, and if they want to bring it up, that's fine, but do you have the right to ask for information?) but it generates so much anger. A massive fireball of it. I understand the origin of it; ignoring the fact I was obviously struggling as a teen, what feels to me like an invasion of privacy now, ignoring years of polite rebuffs, which I think have made it pretty clear that this is something I don't want to talk about, asking utterly stupid questions which make it clear that she hasn't listened to what she has been told, the link between the illness and the childhood stress, the fact that she has a history of making difficult events in my life all about her, the fact that it's none of her bloody business.

I am trying not to push the anger away but just sit with it but gosh it's a lot. I don't know what answer she's expecting. Chronic and incurable means exactly that.

We are in control of what we give out now, no one is entitled to anything. I think anger is at the top of the ice-burg and usually if we sit with it there is something fuelling this? We don’t have to justify our boundaries to anyone, normal people respect it or they move on. These folk are unwell, if we could see it they’d be visibly disabled but instead they are mentally and emotionally and relational.

@CheekySnake my mum always tried to interrogate me for information, just so she had a reason to go through her phone book with news/gossip. She hated that I wouldn't give her news. I had to listen to her and how morose, ill & boring my sister was, how bad tempered my brother was, what a disappointment my dad was, how weak my aunt was ad infinitum. I knew she would make up shit anyway, why spoil it with the truth. The weird thing was she seemed to believe she was the font of all knowledge, never occurred to her we all hated her. They are delusional and think they are so clever pulling the wool over everyone's eyes!
When we brought the farm in France she dined out on that for years, how she was going to move in with us to 'help us!' she was going to learn French and hold country retreat art classes 😂😂 barking mad.
NC allows us the space to enjoy the peace.