What even is this? Sorry it's long!

[Keepstepp123]

My mother and I have a complicated relationship. On the surface we both play along and keep things superficial but now even that is proving tricky.

I grew up being brainwashed by my mum that she was the bees knees, an incredibly wise and emotionally mature pillar of society.

Strangely, I had this niggling feeling that something wasn't right. The way she made me feel was always 'off' and I'd say I actually felt scared of her (still do). She could be incredibly over sensitive and huff for days or weeks over things that, looking back, she had no business to be getting angry or weird about (she felt that my wedding was embarrassing as we isn't serve traditional wedding cake, I told her I didn't want kids immediately, I said I wanted to learn how to drive etc). She used me as her therapist growing up and was constantly slagging everyone under the sun off to me from childhood upwards. I out a stop to it in my twenties.

Through the years there have been fights and fall outs, but it's always because I did something 'wrong' and she wasn't ready to forgive me. She paints a picture of me as being hypersentive because I don't think it's funny for my weight or the size of my nose to be made fun of, for example. She is always the victim.

Anyway, the real turbulent times seem to be over as my dad told her that if she didn't tow the line, she would lose me. She has been playing nice ever since, and I do think she loves me I'm her own way, but it isn't normal.

I'm low contact but when we're together, I always try to keep things as greyrock/neutral as possible. But every.single.thing seems to be controversial. I cannot say anything without the immediate response being hostile or negative. Some examples:

Me: Oh, my friends have invited me out to a Lebanese restaurant next week
Mum: yuck! I had Lebanese food once and it was disgusting! It's just all bread and hummus!

Me: Some of us in work have joined a diet club and the one who loses the most wins money!
Mum: are you that motivated by money? Wouldn't interest me.

Me: so, we were thinking of bringing the kids to Disney land next year.
Mum: what for? To shake hands with Micky Mouse? Do you like that kind of thing? (Pretends to suppress a snigger)

Me: here are some photos from our recent camping trip. The kids had a blast and absolutely loved it!
Mum: looks wet. I'm sure the children were happy to get back to their beds after that.

Me: I got a new dress.
Mum: oh lovely. Another one, just like all the others that look identical to it.

I live in a beautiful tourist attraction area right by the sea, and any time we are together and meet someone we both know, and I tell them where we live, she makes a big deal of hating the beach.

If I tell her I'm going to the cinema it's always 'oh i hate that actress/that genre of film etc'

If I tell her anything the kids have been up to its always along the lines of 'and does she actually enjoy that?'

I was listening to a documentary in the background recently and she asked what it was. I told her and she said 'and do you think I'd be interested in that? How boring'

There is lots of pulling faces and pretending to snigger up her nose. A lot of it is so subtle I can't pull her up in it.

I cannot say anything. Everything has a weird response.

I've noticed more and more that when I tell her things my kids have achieved, clubs or teams they've been picked for, books their reading etc she will often say the right things 'oh congratulations' but I feel that really she resents it. I get the feeling she thinks I'm a pushy parent (I follow my kids interests and encourage them to overcome challenges). When my husband tells his mum some of the stuff our kids are involved in or the level they are competing at, she is always so full of pride and encouragement. My mum manages a 'oh, well done'.

I know I need to stay away from her. I don't want to go non contact as when we're apart, we get on fine via text message and life is low key drama.

It's when we are together. I had a revelation recently that it's not necessarily personal. She speaks like that to my dad quite a lot and I think she is just an incredibly contrary person.

It's just exhausting. I don't know what to make of it.

Ps I've had counselling, I'm in a good place (far from her) and have a very happy life. In fact I think this might be part of the problem.
Anyway, sorry for my rambling.

Sorry, I meant to ask why do you think she does that? Would you put up with it? It's been all my life and I really, really don't think she thinks she's doing anything wrong or that it might be annoying that every single comment I make gets such a strong response.

She sounds quite like mine and i think mine has narcissist traits.

I think there isn't really a solution except what you are doing. Low contact as much as possible and grey rock.

I have been no contact with mine for ten years but appreciate it's not for everyone.

I don't like using labels but I've honestly thought this about her. She seems to like being superior about everything and that every opinion different to hers is pathetic.

Sounds like a mix of jealousy, and putting you down to make her feel superior (like she's trying to convince herself and you that she's better and has a better life)

Yes it must be a superiority thing. It just seems to come so naturally though, likes its her default and she does it without even thinking. It's so odd and so draining.

My ex MIL is a bit like that. Contrary. I don’t know why she’s like it, even after 30 years. Whenever exH called her out on her behaviour, she’d either say we were sensitive or cry victim. She caused problems in our marriage and exH fell out with her a few times when he stood up to her. Her own daughter limits the amount of contact she has with her.

Took me years to properly recognise it wasn’t personal; she treats her own children the same way. She had a very strict Victorian style upbringing. I guess it’s just the way she is. I think she certainly has covert narcissist characteristics. The example exchanges you gave are so familiar. We once told her we were going to see Britney Spears in concert and her immediate reply was: ‘isn’t she old now?’

It’s a shame because actually you can have some really wonderful, engaging conversations with her and now we are separated, I don’t speak to her very often at all but I miss chatting with her. I know she loves her dc, family and grandchildren.

she just hates people, hates life, hates others being achieving, joyful, whatever
you know the answer

My mum has BPD (modern term now EUPD) and she’s just like that too. I can’t go no contact as I’d never be able to see my lovely, much-abused Dad.

Low contact, grey rock and strong boundaries are the way I approach it. Sending hugs! Xx

I would read about narcissistic personality disorder and see how much of this fits in with her behaviour. My first thought on reading your post was narcissism particularly given her behaviour towards your dad (her willing enabler), her sense of superiority, delusions of grandeur and in childhood making you her confidant inappropriately.

Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all and need a willing enabler to help them, this person here is your dad and he’s failed to protect you from the excesses of her behaviour.

She does this because she can and no you do not have to put up with it.

Low contact as well often leads to no contact because it’s not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking. It’s not your fault she is like this and you probably only bother with her at all because you’ve received the Special Training to put her first with you dead last.

Read Will I ever be good enough by KarylMcBride.

God how exhausting and draining every conversation with her must be. I'm sorry for you, op.

I just wouldn't be able to resist saying to her, "Why on earth are you always so negative? Do you realise how much depressing it is?" And have a list of examples at the ready.

Or do it back to her. Every time she says something, say, "Oh no. That sounds shit. I would never go there / do that."

But actually the best way to handle her might be simply to never ever tell her what you are doing. Just talk about her and her things. If she asks you about you and yours, just say this and that or you've been having a quiet time recently.

My mother is very similar. I'm NC. I can't go into much more detail it's too much of a head fuck that I've successfully locked away.

Just know it isn't you and 'the best revenge is not to be like that'. (Marcus Aurelius)

the best way to handle her might be simply to never ever tell her what you are doing.

Yep, this is the approach I had to take with my mother. I tried calling her on it, but she played the victim and just accused me of being unkind to her. I basically stopped telling her anything about my life and gave up any hope of having the kind of mother that other people seem to have.

Your Mum reminds me of my cousin. I don't see him very often but aside from being a very funny person who's fantastic company, if you tell him about anything you're getting or doing, it is immediately declared crap in some way or other.

I use the Motability scheme so have a new car every 3 years. So far, upon telling him about my new Vauxhall Mokka/Jeep Renegade/Ford Fiesta/Audi Q2/Ford Puma/Kia Sportage his response has been "Oh they're not very good" for every single one. My mum & I look at each other just as I say which my newest vehicle is and like clockwork, out it comes....word for word every time 😆

No point in saying anything or calling him out on it, it's just the way he is. Deeply ingrained behaviour is not changeable behaviour.

Yes, same here. Call her out on it and it's a massive drama and i am a terrible daughter. Probably end up with a week long silent treatment or claims of wanting to kill herself. Like, total over kill if ever challenged.

Why do they do it? I don't know, kind of jealousy about not being the centre of it all? Or deep deep insecurity so bitching makes them feel superior? Mine bitched about everyone behind their backs.

Thanks everyone. I honestly think that her superiority complex is so ingrained that her natural response to everything is to poo-poo it.

Without going into detail, as it's outing, my husband is quite successful in his job. He isn't famous but he does work high up in an industry which comes with a lot of perks for us. We aren't flashy, but have had some really unique experiences that most people don't get the chance to have. We know we are very privileged, but some of the things are quite exciting. When DH first started rising up the ranks, I'd tell my mum 'you won't believe where we're going!' but in a kind of way that I thought she'd be excited for me too. Not to show off, but to share my excitement. It was always 'oh, very nice.' I'd tell my best friends from school and they'd be so excited for me. It's as if she always wants me to know that nothing I tell her ever impresses her.

I stopped telling her about some of the more unusual things we were doing as it became clear she didn't want to know. Then I stopped telling about the mundane things my friends were doing (moving house, having another baby etc) as that always seemed to annoy her. I used to tell her a bit about my job and she would always seem very disinterested. So now there's nothing safe.

She hates everyone on TV, my friends, my in laws and if she doesn't say anything negative she pulls a face.

I'd love to tell her something and for her to say 'oh how lovely!' With some kind of enthusiasm but she doesn't.

When we are together, I start feeling unwell because I can't keep it up. I start so many neutral, non-issue conversations in good faith and I'm always disarmed by her negativity and don't know what to say.

My best friend is pregnant with her first child. I told her and she rolled her eyes and said 'I know, I saw her last week!' like she was really angry. I just never know what to say! I'm an expert at greyrock but a lot of the time, I'm like whoooaa where did that come from!!!

My 7 year old daughter told her that she loves Taylor Swift and my mum said. 'And do you know who Taylor Swift loves? Taylor Swift'. My daughter just looked at me like she was really confused. I often feel like I'm stunned by the sheer level of crazy!!!!

What age is she op. They dont really change! I keep lowish contact. Would never be happy for you how was hols. I find she opinionated on everything. College points courses etc. Sometimes I cant be assed arguing. Very tiring though

She's 68.

Sounds a bit like my FIL who doesn’t have a pleasant word to say about anyone (except his daughter and granddaughter) or anything.

Any good news or positive thing we tell him and I can guarantee the first thing out of his mouth will be something negative.

He really is the cloud to every silver lining.

He thinks he’s the most superior knowledge likeable person, in reality he’s not liked by anyone, I suspect he is lonely, and has very little going on in his life, partly because hardly anyone bothers with him any more.

We are extremely low contact and tell him very little about ourselves any more.

Sounds like my mother, mine is 70 and is the same, think it’s got worse as she’s got older. She moved away from my sister and I when I was 22 sister was 19 I think (literally to Australia) and moved back to the uk after my second son was born. But still 100’s of miles away then closer to us in the last few years. I think we’ve learned to live without her so don’t visit that much and she’s looking for us to care for her. But her attitude and behaviour don’t make me want to piss on her whilst on fire at the moment never mind anything else. She’s very slim and I’m not, but she drinks and smokes and belittles me for ‘eating too much’ called my asd son manipulative, it goes on and on she thinks she’s something extra.

She is a complete narc, and drinks wine which makes her really very unpleasant and vindictive to the point I went nc last October, tried to build bridges at Christmas then she went off at me again last week so I’m done, fed up having everything I say fired back at me, also go to Florida and apparently I’m ‘sad’ adults shouldn’t go to Disney world shouldn’t be wasting my money on holidays. She really is awful and speaking to stepdad makes no odds, she’s never wrong and apparently waiting for me to apologise, it’s not going to happen. It’s tough not having a nice relationship with my mum but you come to accept it. Daft thing is we can get on really well. But I can’t say a blinking thing without it getting brought up and used against me when she feels like it. So we don’t visit in an afternoon or phone, as she’ll be on the wine. She’s been dragging up the past a lot too, her life was always harder than anyone else’s. It makes you feel quite low/inferior and just like you must’ve done something to cause this. I could go on and on about her. She’s not really a nice person, I don’t want to let myself be around such toxicity and negativity walking on egg shells anymore, waiting for her to go for me.

Yes I keep it vague little information. Some is boredom with my mam not much on in her week. 80s..

Have you ever tried saying, very calmly, in response to one of these curt replies from her: "Mum, I'm worried about you. You seem to miserable all the time and I can't understand why. You don't seem to find joy even in the happiest news. Are you seeing a therapist?"
People like this really hate being called out.

I have through the years called her out on this and that. Every time, she always finds a way to lash back at me. I remember as a child asking why she always looked sad and her snapping back at me 'do I always have to have a bloody smile on my face for you!'. Then she would do a fake stupid big smile and say 'is this what you want???'

She's a joyless, joyless person. She's had one of those lives that you could write a book about, full of abuse and tragedy which she has no interest in addressing beyond pushing the memories down. I'd say she would have been talented and very successful if she had have had more opportunities, parents whi cared and her early life wasn't married by one horror after the other. It's very sad and I know it's all about her and maybe the way she makes me feel when she snaps a put down, is how she feels inside all the time. I don't know.

Her happiness is not your responsibility.
Why she is like this is not your problem.
Have as little contact as you can get away with. When you are with her tell her as little as possible, nod and smile. Make sure there is never any expectation that you will be involved in her care as she ages.
You sound lovely, and at least she has taught you how NOT to parent. Keep concentrating on your own kids.