Gave him an ultimatum - handhold please

[OpalTiger]

Needing a handhold here… sorry for long post! Been together with DH for 19 years, married 12. 2 DC, 9 and 6. Very much stuck in a routine for the last few years - I have low sex drive and DH have complained several times about feeling unloved and like we’re in a roommate situation. I make more of an effort when he does but then admittedly get distracted by life and the cycle starts again.

I noticed about 1 1/2 years ago that he made less of an effort too but somehow filed it under ‘things to sort when the kids get older’. About 4 months ago there was a shift in behaviour and he became more protective of his phone etc. I discovered that he had developed a friendship with a woman at work who ‘is in the same situation’ and they ‘just talk’.

It’s slowly crept out that they sometimes meet up for talks when he should be elsewhere and he has admitted to developing feelings for her. I don’t think they’ve done anything physical yet but as far as I’m concerned he’s emotionally invested in someone else so he’s cheating.

He says he doesn’t want a divorce and he wants to fix things between us. I’ve said he needs to cut all ties with the other woman - stop seeing her, block number etc and also explain to her that he’s doing that because he’s choosing to fight for his wife and family (I’m perhaps naive but hoping she’ll respect that and back off). He said he would do it but then seemed to sway and started saying how ‘it’s not as easy as that’. He says I’m pushing too much and we need to see how things go…

So I gave him an ultimatum and said that if he doesn’t cut the ties we won’t be able to move forward and we’ll need to divorce. He’s been adamant he doesn’t want a divorce so I thought saying that would focus his mind but he still seems like he wants the cake and to eat it.

It’s only been a day since the ultimatum but I’m not sure what to do, I can’t sleep or eat or focus at work. I really don’t want to lose him or our life together and I feel like I’ve sleepwalked right into this situation. Is it too late to fix things? Is he going to be able to let her go and focus on us? Do I wait for him to hopefully come to his senses or just call it quits?

I work full time in a senior post and am by far the higher earner so I’m not worried about the financial situation (if anything I’ll lose out as majority of house deposit came from my savings and gifted from my parents). I just don’t want to lose him and I don’t want to lose our family unit. We’re a great team and have a lot of fun together - never any arguments and even this situation has been discussed calmly and with no heated words. I’m willing to forgive and work this through but is it too little too late?!

Just to be clear, I don’t think he’s been seeing her for 1 1/2 year, I think he ‘gave up’ at that point and had probably resigned to that we were in a relationship with a lot of love for each other but not in love with each other. He met her about 6 months ago. She has a DC, a little older than ours, and is still with her partner but getting ready to leave I think.

That must have been shocking. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

Is your marriage now sexless? Have you done anything to address your libido? It’s an unpopular view here but I really think that sex in marriage is the glue that keeps couples together otherwise you can end in friend zone. And it’s agony to be on the other end of it and constantly rejected. Or do you think that might be just an excuse on your husband’s part?

Read this thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5263825-what-paloma-faith-said-about-foreplay

If he doesn't make you feel valued every day, you won't want sex.

It sounds like you are still trying to process a lot of things and are hoping it will all just go away. Unfortunately I don’t think it will just disappear now. This is someone he has obviously grown close to so ultimatums are not going to automatically make him not close to her. And if you give an ultimatum you need to follow it through or it just becomes meaningless. If he doesn’t cut contact now you’ve said you will divorce but you know you are not ready to do this.

It sounds like you have over the years become more like friends than lovers. I think that happens and can also be fixed. I don’t know if never arguing is a particularly healthy sign to be honest cos there should be some heat in a situation where ultimatums are being given.

I wish you luck going forward. You should be thinking carefully about what you really want and not just blindly fighting for what you think is yours and want to keep. Are you really happy? I don’t think I would be in your situation but only you can answer that question.

I’d also say this about sex drive - it’s amazing how quickly it comes back when you meet someone you are in love with and who is sexually attracted to you. As someone who was in a similar situation with my ex husband, I thought my hormones were gone or the sex part of my life had just gone. It wasn’t until I left him and met someone a few years later that I realised things between my husband and I had just stopped working. You don’t always see it when you are in the situation, don’t hate the person and want so much to have the traditional family set up. Maybe it is just your sex drive has gone but I’m not the only woman I know who suddenly rediscovers it when they move on from a relationship that died and they hadn’t realised cos family life just takes over.

It does sound like the feelings could be more developed than you had hoped for and he may be in love with her however hard that is to hear. People can’t just switch off feelings but when they get given ultimatums they feel they have to even if they are in pain by doing so. It’s a tricky situation to manage.

How are you suddenly going to develop an increased sex drive? (Other than the one that comes with desperately trying to keep him)

How will he sever ties with the woman if he works with her?

He probably doesn’t want a divorce as he says but it sounds like he also doesn’t want to lose the connection he has with her either.

This is a situation that could go either way.

Will he go to therapy with you?

I didn’t want to read and run. I am sorry you are going through this. The worrying thing is she is ready to leave her relationship so I think he’s minimising and they have very likely been having a sexual relationship. Your husband is saying he doesn’t want to leave but it’s for financial reasons and the dc or he would never had started this. As a pp has said, he’s in love with the ow and I do not believe a therapist can make you fall out of love, they can only help you work through your feelings. At the moment your H will have 2 women doing the pick me dance. Don’t trust time. He’s not taking the ultimatum seriously - he will become better at lying and concealing

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I can only imagine how hurt, angry, and overwhelmed you must feel right now. How did you find out? Did he confess?

I think you need to a step back and look at the bigger picture. He has been expressing dissatisfaction for some time, and while you made some changes, they weren’t enough to sustain the relationship in his eyes. Instead of blaming yourself, I’d be interested in why those changes were so difficult to maintain. As the higher earner in a senior position, you’re carrying an immense amount of pressure. Unless he is the second coming to man, I’d be surprised if he was fully sharing the load, it’s likely you’ve also been managing the mental and emotional labor of the household. This stress will impact your libido. But are you sure you’re as in love with him as you think? Or is it habit?

From his perspective, it may have felt like you had already checked out, which is why he sought something elsewhere.

Unfortunately once someone emotionally disconnects, it’s incredibly difficult to bring them back. He has to want to rebuild—and his reluctance to give up the other woman suggests he doesn’t. He may be waiting for her to leave her partner, so that he can exit the marriage on his terms.

Regardless of whether the affair is physical or emotional, it is still a betrayal. He has lied and cheated. You may have had a respectful conversation but he has not treated you with any respect at all in behaving in this way. I’d e does cut contact how will you know he’s stuck to it if he works with her?

Moving past it would require deep commitment from both of you, and right now, his response is lukewarm at best. His hesitation and divided loyalty make it clear he’s still in affair ‘fog’ and unless that lifts you’re on a hiding to nothing. You need to seriously consider walking away. Choosing to walk away now may either force him to confront what he truly wants and make a commitment to you and his family, or confirm that he was already halfway out the door and wants to be with the OW more. Either way, it gives you control over your future, rather than waiting for him to decide on his terms.

Marriage counseling could still worth considering —whether to explore reconciliation or to navigate a separation in the healthiest way possible. 💛

Thanks for the replies, some very sobering comments here. Our relationship is not sexless but probably been about once a month for a long time. H says he tried for years and got fed up with it - I never rejected him but he says he wanted me to instigate more which is fair enough. When we have sex it’s great, I just don’t feel the drive to start it very often. I did try and speak to my gp about it years ago and he just said there isn’t really much to do and to just try and be more conscious of it. If anyone has tips on libido (apart from change of man) I’m all ears!

I do think that he feels more for her than he lets on and I said that I understand he can’t switch off his feelings for her but they’re definitely not going away if he continues to see her, and I certainly can’t move on if he does. I told him this morning I’m contacting divorce lawyers today and he begged me not to and said he’d speak to her and end it. No idea when though.

I don’t think I have been happy for a long time but I’ve not been unhappy either and I’d like to think that we can get the happiness back. I’ve spoken to him about the mental load and he says he understands and will take more of it on. Again, time will tell if he does.

I’m thinking that continuing to push will just drive him away from me so I’ll take a step back for a while and give him time to end things and maybe bring it up again next weekend. In the meantime I agree that I need to really think about what I want and I will start looking at the legal and financial situation as well…

Agree entirely. I had no desire at all, and I thought it was gone for me. Then my marriage ended, I met someone else and my desire came back with bells on!

He wants to stay married but doesn't want to give up the other woman. He's taking the absolute piss.

You say his OW is a work colleague OP.
Even if he does try and end with things with her how is that going to succeed if he is seeing her every day at work?
For things to end properly between them he would need to change his job.

@Hyggehogger I loved your post. Op you've acknowledged that you haven't put your all into the marriage. And that yes you'd step up when he would say something and then slip back into old ways. Are you in the marriage as it's comfortable and familiar?

Does he see his behaviour as being unfaithful? Have you asked how he’d feel if you did this to him? If I’ve understood correctly - they’ve been bonding over how unhappy both of them are in their relationships? That’s a massive betrayal of trust and would be hard to get past.
I hope he’s given you full access to his phone / messages etc. you deserve full transparency. If he doesn’t end things within a couple of days - I’d take that as a sign he’s not going to. Don't let this drift.
It sounds like you have a strong relationship normally but perhaps have both lost your way a bit, got caught up in life and not focused enough on your own happiness and each others happiness. I really hope you can both work past this - counselling either individually and / or together might help. But getting your ducks in a row for leaving is still sensible. Don't get caught blindsided if he suddenly ups and offs with her.
In terms of sex life - I’d recommend Emily Nagasaki Come as You Are and Mind the Gap by Dr Karen Gurney (Diary of a CEO podcast also has an interview) to explore more about female desire.

This sounds like a wake-up call but I can't see a way forward. You say you haven't been happy in a long time and your husband is unhappy with your sex life.

He wants to stay married (I assume you do the drudge work and facilitate his life), so he unsurprisingly doesn't want to give that up.

He doesn't want to put any more effort into your relationship or he would have done by now, so he's happy if he can get laid.

Where from here? I doubt you want to have sex you don't want and he's not going to step up.

Agree with this 100%, my (now ex) DP cheated with a co-worker, we tried to work through it and it was obviously a very emotional time for us both but I spent my time walking on eggshells as i could never be sad/upset/angry/have any feeling at all about his infidelity as there she was everyday at work not feeling any of those things about him, only delight at seeing him. We never stood a chance. In my emotional turmoil I could never compare to the happy-go-lucky woman she was.

My advice is to prepare for the worst, get legal and financial advice to protect yourself and the DC, he has one foot out the door, you have just discovered this new side to your DH and he will be light years ahead of you in readiness to end this marriage. I am so sorry OP, but please ready yourself.

@OpalTiger have you spoken to your husband properly about no contact with ow and potentially moving jobs?

I’m sorry - your marriage is over. He’s not willing to give up the other woman. He wants to work on your marriage while he sees if the other relationship pans out. Please don’t let yourself be his plan B. If you were plan A, he would have cut ties with the OW.

Hello all, sorry for radio silence. The last talk I had with H about this is when I told him I was contacting divorce lawyers and he begged me not to and said he ‘would sort it’ (referring to the cutting ties). He has always reacted very poorly to being told what to do, and to being pushed into anything (hence my panic after giving him an ultimatum) so I thought I would leave it with him for a week and bring it up again next weekend when he’s had ample time to call it off with her.

When I say they work together, it’s more that they are in the same company but they don’t have to spend time together and can choose not to see each other at work so I don’t think he would need to change jobs. He would more need arrange his work day so it doesn’t coincide with hers (which is relatively easy to do).

He says he doesn’t see it as cheating but can understand why I do. He has indeed bonded with her over their unhappy marriages (hers sounds worse to be fair) and I think he’s worried about losing his ‘person that he speaks to about it’. I think he does want to fix things with us but worries that things will go back to the way they were and I suppose he thinks that if they do and he’s cut ties then he has no plan B. Which doesn’t make me overly confident about his optimism about us so I am planning to speak to a divorce lawyer this week to see what information I need, if that is the route we end up going down.

It’s all so surreal. We’ve had a lovely weekend with the kids and he’s been talking about the future and various things that we’ve planned for the next few years. Lots of hugs and kisses, and even sex this morning - I’m so confused about it all. It’s like we’re talking about someone else and not us. Part of me wishes I had never found out and maybe it would have fizzled out by itself as I think he genuinely doesn’t want a divorce - he’s from a broken home and always said he would never do that to his children…

The sex is trauma bonding, don’t let it confuse you.
He doesn’t see it as cheating so there is the problem. He should have looked within your marriage, not outside it to fix your problems. Despite the lovely weekend and the sex, you are still in the position you were last week except you are seeing a divorce lawyer.
If it was my partner and this happened, I would only reconcile with him if he left jobs. The temptation is too near and how will you deal with that thought every day. I wish you well. You are an intelligent women but don’t get sucked into all this future talk yet while this issue remains unresolved.

The sex does sound like hysterical bonding. I’ve done it.

i think I would want some couples therapy

The big issue here is that he refuses to acknowledge his behavior as cheating and expects you to carry the burden of all the changes. He needs to understand that seeking external support about his relationship is valid, but that person cannot be someone who he has inappropriate feelings for. Perhaps share some information with him about what an emotional affair is, and use that to hold a mirror up to his behaviour.

How can you possibly repair your relationship when he has a backup waiting in the wings, ready to step in if you don’t conform to his expectations? How can you fully support him, be vulnerable together, and rebuild trust when you are under threat that he’s continuing strengthening his connection with someone else behind your back and he might leave you for her?

You are absolutely right to set an ultimatum, but you need to stand firm on it and continue to get your ducks in a row. Being mercenary, divorce is your leverage here - if he doesn’t want it he can’t have his ow.

I’ve noticed some hesitation in your approach, as if you’re afraid to push him too much—almost like you don’t believe you deserve faithfulness, honesty and respect because you fear he’ll leave if you demand it. Obviously trust works both ways and he doesn’t seem to trust that you’ll make changes either. You seem afraid to demand he work with you to rebuild that trust? But that’s not a foundation for rebuilding happiness.

Don’t settle for him being loving and nice, while also cheating on you. It’s false and disrespectful - you’re worth more than that!

I really think couples counselling would help you have some of these difficult conversations💕

I wouldn’t be settling for a husband who wants to keep his options open.

This made me cry. I think you’re absolutely right, I am hesitating because I am afraid of pushing too hard. I do think I deserve faithfulness, honesty and respect but I am so scared of leaving. I know people see me as a strong person but he is really my safety net. I have neglected friendships over the years and don’t really have anyone to talk to, my family live far away and we’re not really close.

I’ve asked him to go to counselling with me but he refuses after a bad experience when he was younger. I’m just so confused and feel stuck. I want to be strong and make those demands or move towards a divorce but I’m absolutely terrified of the prospect of it actually happening. It feels like Russian roulette!

Could you go for some individual counselling for yourself? A safe space to explore why you might want to stay, and also what leaving might look like if it comes to that and address some of those fears? It’s hard but it is always possible to rebuild and start new chapter if you do leave.

With kindness - he’s not the safety net you thought he was. He’s full of holes that need repairing. He’s not giving up his ow, he’s cheating, he’s refusing joint counselling and he’s acting like nothing has changed.

You're clearly a strong and capable lady - don’t stay out of fear, stay because you both want a happy respectful relationship together.