Worried about brother and mother

[Dappy777]

My brother is 48 and lives with my mother (78). Dad died 16 years ago. They are stuck in an awful enmeshed/co-dependent/dysfunctional relationship.

Basically, brother had very bad anxiety and depression in his late teens and early 20s. He did A-levels and went away to university but dropped out within weeks and came home. I don't think he could cope with the social side. He then completed the degree at a local university and lived at home. After graduation, his mental health deteriorated and he withdrew to his room. My dad would get angry and have goes at him and demand he got a job, but in the end gave up. For years he just lived at home with job and no relationships doing nothing.

When he was 31 dad died. After that he came out of himself a bit and began internet dating, returned to same local uni and did an MA (literature). I had married and moved out by then.

He's never had a proper job (a couple of very short-term delivery jobs that lasted a month, and a year or two writing articles for a content site). He has basically got a blank CV. I think he also feels a lot of shame at his life. He's ashamed to be 48 and living with his mum, ashamed to have never left home, ashamed to have never had a proper/long-term relationship, etc. He's also paid no National Insurance or income tax, and so, presumably, will get no state pension (is that correct??). People think he's a lazy parasite living off my mother, but to be fair to him she likes him being there. After dad died, I don't think he felt he could leave. He's very comfortable, and is happy for her to fund his life, but she's equally happy to have his company and support. They live in a fairly isolated spot, and my mother would never cope there on her own (she's crippled with anxiety and has been on Prozac ever since dad died).

Obviously, I worry about the long-term. If mum gets ill and has to go into a care home, the house wold have to be sold to pay the fees and he'd literally be homeless. Even if that doesn't happen, and mum dies suddenly, once the house has been sold and everything has been divided between the two of us, he'll have just enough to buy a one-bedroom flat. But let's say he's 58 when that happens, how will he pay for heating, food, council tax, electricity, and so on? And what's he going to do without a state pension? I can't raise this with my mother because she just goes into meltdown (shaking, crying, etc). And my brother is so withdrawn and twisted up with shame that he refuses to talk about it.

Though you don’t have to obviously, would you give up your share of any inheritance to him?

This was my first thought, but then again why should she? But, also again the mother may just leave everything to the brother if OPs got her life sorted and he hasn’t.

OP, you say your DB came out of his shell when your DF died, do you think your DF might have been a major part of your DBs anxiety, could there have been abuse going on you weren’t aware of?

You DB dosnt sound unintelligent so maybe he has been mulling this over himself already.

You're so concerned that you're already planning on kicking him out of the home he's lived in all his life so you can take your share? Doesn't sound like genuine concern to me, you seem more bothered about your inheritance.

Can he apply for carers allowance now, as he essentially cares for your mother? Does she have any disability? I wonder if you are a registered carer, does it make a difference for state pension. From a quick Google there are other benefits you can claim if you are not eligible for state pension.

can your brother claim any benefits through mental ill health, has he been assessed by GP
or other?

can she transfer ownership of her home to you/your brother now? To avoid it being taken off her to pay for future care.

Could he have a neurodiversity and be happy and comfortable in his situation? He may find the world too overwhelming.

Interesting interpretation of the op’s concern that her mother’s home may have to be sold to pay for care home fees is that the op worried about her inheritance. The op is simply being sensible and worrying about how her brother will cope if/when this happens. Very mean to immediately jump to ‘you’re so concerned you’re already planning on kicking him out’. The previous point someone made about the brother claiming carer’s allowance is a good one and gets him into ‘the system’. Perhaps a chat with a lawyer/Age Concern/Shelter or citizen’s advice might be useful and needn’t at this point involve your mother.

Will your mum leave him the house? If so, he'll have to sell it, rent somewhere and live the equity.

Can your mum get attendance allowance and him carers allowance? A bit late but he'd get pension credits.

You brother sounds neurodivergent. Your mum may be too. Has your brother ever mentioned how he views his difficulties?

He needs to claim uc so he gets pension credits
And pay for missing years
Get in system so he will have uc to pay bills eventually

There is nothing you can do here re their relationship but I think you know that already.
My Bil also has a codependent and otherwise dysfunctional relationship with his mother. And he’s not going to be able to manage either when she dies.

Benefits: your mum needs to claim attendance allowance. With that in place, your brother can claim carers allowance and universal credit. This will give him some national insurance credits and means he won't be hassled to get a job.
Once he reaches pension age he will be entitled to pension credit, housing benefit (if he's renting) and council tax support.
It's probably not as bad a situation as you had imagined.
Once he's getting universal credit, he can ask the jobcentre for support finding suitable work if that's something he wants to explore.

It might be a bit tricky for you to shepherd your mum through the attendance allowance application to get the ball rolling on all of this. The application isn't all the hard, but it's quite long. And it sounds like mum doesn't like talking about finances or thinking about the future

Your brother needs to apply for PIP/Universal credit for himself .
Your mum the same.
Your brother is your mums carer he needs to apply for carers allowance and this will pay his nic stamp for his pension .

There wasn't any abuse, but I do think my father played a role in DB's problems. He was a needy, damaged man with a lot of childhood trauma (abandonment issues, etc). Once he got a family of his own, he became suffocating and unbearable. I think he just put way too much pressure on DB as a child – gave him no space to breathe and grow. He wasn't a bad man. He deeply loved us. He was just too controlling and needy. My brother got it much worse than me (I don't think my dad really wanted a daughter).

Yes, I think DB has worked all this out. He's no fool – very introspective and self-aware. The basic problem is that he feels trapped, I'd say. And in a way he is. My mother met my dad when she was 18, and he kind of clung to her as well. She'd had no life before meeting him – just went from her parent's home to moving in with him. She's also quite passive and fell in line with his needy, clingy personality. The two of them then formed a really suffocating, slightly dysfunctional family unit. When he died, they'd been married 40+ years, and I don't think she could face life on her own. In a way, she's kind of manipulated my brother into living the way he does. He never had a chance to get away and grow. It's sad to see.

In terms of inheritance, if your mum’s house isn’t used to pay for her care she can set it up so your brother can live there for the rest of his life. With you both as beneficiaries, but an arrangement where your brother can stay there. However, he would find it difficult to maintain the house on his own.
I feel very, very sad for your brother he clearly has issues and sounds absolutely trapped.
Your parents, including your mother, have a lot to
answer for sadly.
And just for the record your concerns here are absolutely genuine and not coming from a place of greed.

I did briefly look into all this (not easy as my life is hectic and stressful). From what I can see, no, he wouldn't qualify for carer's allowance. My mother isn't registered as disabled in any way and is generally still quite fit and active.

He did go on anti-depressants for a bit, and I'm sure his GP has noted 'anxiety issues' and that kind of thing on his files, but he's never claimed benefits and isn't registered as unfit to work. He could have gone down that route and tried exploiting the system, but he never did.

I do think she ought to consider what will happen to DB after her death, but she never talks about it. It's a taboo subject. It isn't just money. He isn't prepared on any level for her death. When you are out in the world, socialising and working and dealing with tax and money and so on it toughens you up. But he just lives like a lazy teenager – playing video games, reading, learning Russian. He isn't prepared on any level for coping with life when mum has gone – not practically, emotionally, psychologically, financially.

Oh ffs, I'm not "planning on kicking him out." He has always been a very kind and loving brother to me. I have read numerous stories on MN over the years about sexual abuse, bullying, cruelty etc from siblings and realise that I was lucky. I know he'd be there if I needed him, and I would never allow something bad to happen to him. In any case, I know him. If mum has left the house to the two of us, he'd be 100% fair and insist I had my share.

I also have to think about my own children and the money I hope to leave them. Besides, he couldn't afford to stay there. He'd never afford the heating, council tax, and general maintenance. I know he'd prefer to sell it and buy a small flat. What he doesn't add is how he's going to pay the bills or what he's going to do for a pension. So far as I can see, he won't even get a state pension since he's not registered as unfit to work and hasn't paid any National Insurance. I also worry how he'll cope emotionally and psychologically. He seems to think he'll just buy a house and get a part-time job. But it will be too much – having to cope with bereavement, sell the house he's lived in all his life, get a job and learn to cope with bills and tax and all the mundane practical stuff all at the same time.

He could have gone down that route and tried exploiting the system, but he never did.

Grief. You don’t exploit the system. (Big love to those of us who rely on the system) It’s used if for whatever reason you are unable to function like you would without whatever condition you have. It is incredibly, incredibly hard to get pip etc. Think EHCP on steroids.

It's hard isn't it @Dappy777 . Fwiw there are a lot of families in this situation with similar unhealthy dynamics. You are not alone.

In our family it was my dad and my brother and everything came to a head when my dad got dementia and my brothers drug use led to him financially abusing my father. Very sad and toxic all round.

In our case we had to use the courts to separate them both and my brother ended up homeless and has now been housed in a hostel for difficult individuals with drug dependencies. I don't think my dad ever forgave us for making him leave but there really was no choice - and no happy ending for either of them either.

My advice to you is to focus on your brother. If he wants to leave, support him. If he's willing to talk about his life to some third party that might be the best thing he could do but it needs to come from him. But if he doesn't want to move out, then encourage him to sign on so at least his national insurance is paid. But if he won't engage then try not to worry too much. He'll be in for an impoverished old age but there is a safety net of sorts and it's not your responsibility to step in and save him from himself. He's been massively let down by your parents but that's not your fault.

My feeling is that nothing will change until a crisis hits but I hope I'm wrong.

Oh, I think he is happy. And you're right, I do think he finds the world overwhelming. He's never been diagnosed or labelled. Personally, I'm sure he isn't on the spectrum. He's pretty much the opposite of ASD. If I had to diagnose, I'd say he's socially anxious, avoidant and very, very introverted.

So yes, he is very happy in his little bubble. But when mum dies that bubble is going to burst and he's going to be flung out into the real world. It would be better if he learned to cope now. He needs to prepare himself for life after mum's death. Not just financially, but emotionally and psychologically and practically.

Some absolutely horrible and damn right judgey replies on here OP, just ignore them.
I can totally understand your position and just to say you are absolutely not alone with this problem. I think it's quite common. A friend of mine also has a brother living with her mum and the dad died a while ago, she worries all the time about what will happen.
The answer is benefits. Your DB will need to go on benefits in relation to his mental health, he should probably already be claiming them on the basis he can't mentally do a job.
Don't give up your inheritance, what a stupid suggestion, that's your money not his.
Just remember we all pay taxes and this helps out those with difficult circumstances and sometimes it helps to know of someone who needs the help,

You just described an ASD person perfectly. A coping mechanism when the world is overwhelming is to hide and avoid, what else is there to do when the world makes you intensely anxious.

I also have to think about my own children and the money I hope to leave them.

This really isn’t cool. So many people these days seem to plan how to spend other peoples money.

You could be describing an older version of my nephew who has never worked or signed on and lives with his DF who is very frail now. I don't know what will happen to him after his DF dies.

I’d get him to the gp, sighed off onto UC and get a proper assessment as he cleanly is struggling a great deal with everyday life.

He needs to go on benefits and the GP should help with this. Is there a social prescriber attached to the practice? I would also suggest he asks for an assessment for neuro diversity/ mental health.
Charities like Mind and Mencap can help (and you don't necessarily have to be "mentally handicapped " in the old terminology and definition)