Worried about brother and mother

[Dappy777]

My brother is 48 and lives with my mother (78). Dad died 16 years ago. They are stuck in an awful enmeshed/co-dependent/dysfunctional relationship.

Basically, brother had very bad anxiety and depression in his late teens and early 20s. He did A-levels and went away to university but dropped out within weeks and came home. I don't think he could cope with the social side. He then completed the degree at a local university and lived at home. After graduation, his mental health deteriorated and he withdrew to his room. My dad would get angry and have goes at him and demand he got a job, but in the end gave up. For years he just lived at home with job and no relationships doing nothing.

When he was 31 dad died. After that he came out of himself a bit and began internet dating, returned to same local uni and did an MA (literature). I had married and moved out by then.

He's never had a proper job (a couple of very short-term delivery jobs that lasted a month, and a year or two writing articles for a content site). He has basically got a blank CV. I think he also feels a lot of shame at his life. He's ashamed to be 48 and living with his mum, ashamed to have never left home, ashamed to have never had a proper/long-term relationship, etc. He's also paid no National Insurance or income tax, and so, presumably, will get no state pension (is that correct??). People think he's a lazy parasite living off my mother, but to be fair to him she likes him being there. After dad died, I don't think he felt he could leave. He's very comfortable, and is happy for her to fund his life, but she's equally happy to have his company and support. They live in a fairly isolated spot, and my mother would never cope there on her own (she's crippled with anxiety and has been on Prozac ever since dad died).

Obviously, I worry about the long-term. If mum gets ill and has to go into a care home, the house wold have to be sold to pay the fees and he'd literally be homeless. Even if that doesn't happen, and mum dies suddenly, once the house has been sold and everything has been divided between the two of us, he'll have just enough to buy a one-bedroom flat. But let's say he's 58 when that happens, how will he pay for heating, food, council tax, electricity, and so on? And what's he going to do without a state pension? I can't raise this with my mother because she just goes into meltdown (shaking, crying, etc). And my brother is so withdrawn and twisted up with shame that he refuses to talk about it.

would it be feasible for him to live with you if your mother passes? to use the inheritance maybe move into a property with a granny flat he could live in where he could have his own space but you could help him with the things he struggles with.

I have considered benefits, but I don't think they're the answer.

1) Because he isn't unfit to work, not so far as the state is concerned anyway. He isn't registered or labelled with anything, and there isn't anything obviously wrong. Same goes for my mother.

I'm certain he isn't on the spectrum. He's just an anxious, introverted, mildly depressed/low energy personality type. He ought to have been assessed when he was young. In his late teens/early-mid 20s he was in a v bad way, and probably had a full blown avoidant personality disorder. He'd have had a breakdown if my parents had forced him out into the world. Today he's much better, but is left with a blank CV.

2) Even if he could claim benefits, that's not the answer. He really needs to be out in the world. He needs to get outside the bubble now, while my mother is still alive. If not, I just can't see him coping when she dies. He won't cope practically or financially, but he also wont cope emotionally.

So instead of anything practical and realistic, you want him to change completely?
Why?

Benefits would mean his NI stamp is paid which will mean he gets a state pension.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I suppose my two big worries are

1. Something happens to my mother that means she requires round the clock care. Something like a stroke or paralysis or whatever so that, with the best will in the world, my brother and I can't cope and the professionals insist she go into a home. That would then mean selling the house to pay for her care. This is my biggest worry. What would my brother do? He isn't 'dependent' so far as the state is concerned. And he isn't 60+. Presumably he'd be kicked out and become homeless!!?

2. My mother dies, he sells the house and moves into a flat, finds the whole thing too much after years of living in a bubble, can't pay the electricity bill, council tax, gas bill, etc, gets into debt and has a breakdown/crashes into depression.

3. He makes it to his mid-60s, but not having paid any National Insurance receives no state pension and lives out his old age in isolation and poverty.

This is why I don't think benefits are the answer. He needs to build up as much strength and independence now, while still living in the bubble, rather than trying to do it in his mid-50s when my mother dies and the bubble bursts. Maybe volunteering would be a good start. Hopefully that could turn into paid work. Also, it might be a way round not having a CV or experience.

At the very least, he'll qualify for Pension Credit, so whilst he'll be poor, he won't be destitute. https://www.gov.uk/pension-credit It will unlock other benefits for him too and he may well be able to get into some form of over 55's housing scheme. The other thing is that if he is dependent on your mother, the rules are slightly different with regard to property and care costs. Whether he would be classed as dependent or not though, I wouldn't know.

If your mum stopped supporting him or died he would just have to claim benefits like all the other hundreds of thousands who don't work. He would be asked to look for work unless he has good medical reason not to. If her house was sold to pay for care then he would need to look for housing and claim Universal credit for help with the rent.
At pension age if he has no entitlement to a state pension then he claims Pension credit which would give him all his rent and council tax paid, freeTV license, free dental care and opticians , winter fuel payment etc. These group of people often end up better off than those who have worked their whole lives.

Empathy.with you OP.

My BIL is similar to your DB, their father died, lives with my MIL who is in her mid-70's.

BIL did date and lived with someone but this was over 20 yrs ago - he cheated on them, he got dumped, he had a breakdown etc... moved in with his parents and has never shifted out.

BIL's siblings have asked him recently what he will do when/if MIL needs extra care (slight concern of dementia and her world is very small and limited - rarely goes put except shopping) and when she dies does he intend to buy the siblings out to remain (in a sadly decaying house because it's not maintained much.

We don't live close by and - we've just had to buy and sort out replacement boiler for them (at a cost to ourselves) because BIL just avoids responsibility.

Thankfully BIL has a job at the moment.

We worry about the future but we know MIL likes having him there, she cooks, washes, cleans up after him. I think it keeps her going mentally and physically. And BIL is a lazy arse.

I don't know the answer but understand your worries.

There is no reason he can't claim Universal credit now. It would provide him with a basic income and they are meant to be putting more help into helping people find jobs especially those with long term health issues. They may be able to link him up with schemes, voluntary work, updating CV etc.

I know someone who got a job in Morrisons in his 50s after not needing a job beforehand. He’s come on leaps and bounds in terms of independence and happiness (meeting people and saving up etc!)

He’s not your responsibility. He’s a grown man. Stop trying to baby him / control him and let him sort his own life out when the time comes.

Firstly don't make yourself ill over it. If neither will accept a steer in the right direction now it'll be forced at a late stage at some point.

Could you suggest them both going to some classes,get them both out a bit, using each other as a crutch - build up some confidence.
Maybe in time add in a bit on volunteering for your brother. Or seek out some carers support group for your brother.
Your mom at some point will be become eligible for Attendance Allowance, your brother can then claim carers allowance.

I guess for you, it's encouraging and keeping dialogue open - getting your Mom to see she needs to prepare him for a time she's not around and it's kinder to do it now then force his hand.

I'm really not sure why you are convinced that your DB is not autistic despite the overwhelming real world experiential evidence that he is. Because he is not diagnosed - but then in the same breath you refer to diagnosis as 'labelling' as if it is meaningless and has no medical relevance.

You do your mother a disservice. She did the best for her son in an era when diagnosis was hard to achieve for the so-called high functioning but too anxious to deal with every day life autistics. She never tried to claim PIP or ESA or UC that would help his independence or take steps to provide for his future economic security. Maybe through shame.

Your solution is that he stops being autistic. Or deny that he is autistic so that he stops behaving as if he were.

You are convinced he can't live independently but has no learning difficulties, not mentally ill, not addicted etc. Even the worst parenting, and it has to be abusively bad, doesn't have this result.

What if he is autistic? Start there. What are your next steps to support him?

I honestly thought you were my sister writing (but both my parents are still alive).

I/we literally cannot get my other sibling to a) sign on then eventually get a job or b) pay their NI contributions from their huge amounts of savings.

They've never moved out of our parents' house. They've probably spent 5 nights away from home in their life. Never paid a bill, never paid rent or contributed financially and our mother buys everything for them including clothes! Early 40s now. Not much of a social life as they cannot invite anyone round for dinner or to stay.

It is not a happy setup there at all with a lot of arguing and really nasty sniping.

Realistically, if she needs care and the local authority come for the house, your brother is a dependent who is resident there. You get a social services assessment at that point- preferably sooner- and it should be ok.

We have a similar situation in the family, and basically DMiL has left everything to the live in son so he will be ok. The three other siblings will not get anything much, I don’t think.

Which is actually really annoying as we could have supported him to get established and got him recognised and supported by the local authority but that will be much harder if he owns a very big house!

I completely agree with @PocketSand.

I am very involved in the autistic community and everything you've said about your brother points to him being autistic. It's a common situation for autistic people.

Your brother sounds better now as an adult than he was in his younger years because the overwhelming demands of society (school, Uni, social experiences etc) have been removed from his life making it easier for him to cope. If he was forced back into working and dealing with daily demands he would no doubt suffer another autistic burnout.

This is a really similar situation to my db, apart from my mum died suddenly a couple of years ago. My db then moved in with another family member temporarily and is still there, despite having outstayed his welcome. It’s a really difficult situation OP and despite being in a similar situation I have no real advice. I made a conscious decision to take a step back, I have a job, young children and just don’t have the capacity to take someone else on right now.

Just to add, I do suspect my db is neurodiverse. Yours may be too, from you have posted.

I honestly think you need some help and advice with this one outside of MN.
It is like a double edged sword - he can’t cope with the outside world, but shouldn’t be on benefits.
Maybe it is time to admit that he needs something, because he clearly can’t cope with a traditional job. At least then there would be something there for him.
I agree it’s going to be awful if anything happens to your mum but the fact is one day it will.
It happens to us all, and some people aren’t prepared.
If your brother was in the system now he may qualify for sheltered housing for the over 55’s. This would give him some assistance.
Just leaving it all to chance is nit going to help, but you can’t shoulder this on your own. If he can’t cope with any change there isn’t lot you can do.

don't think benefits are the answer. He needs to build up as much strength and independence now, while still living in the bubbl

He claims UC
he will get a job coach
They willpush him to apply for jobs
He will get support to write CV and apply for jobs
There may be local schemes for people on uc to get into volunteering etc

Not claiming is just daft it will open up opportunities

It’s really hard and I can well understand your concerns. I have been there ( still am there) with the dysfunctional brother who never left home ( like yours started university, got overwhelmed, breakdown in year 1 and home ever since) , mum died when we were in our 20s , then he was home with our “ eccentric” dad until dad got dementia and in his last year of life moved to a nursing home. Eventually, big nervous breakdown, sectioning, and 18 months in a rehab unit. Diagnosed with autism. I’m sure dad was autistic too. Brother has stayed in parents’ home which he inherited. Things that helped led along the way:

1. He could not be made homeless to pay for dad’s care, as he was a dependent adult.
2. autism diagnosis ( which he does not engage with, sadly) helps others to understand him
3. The rehab unit really sorted through issues one after the other , sorted benefits, the house which had got into a shocking state, his physical health and on discharge he got a PA ( personal assistant). As he can’t cope with life admin they give very valuable support with all sorts of practical things ( bills, stuff in the house that needs fixing , cleaning) and are a friendly visit twice a week.
4. Very helpful GP who knows the family well and took action to raise safeguarding issue when mental health services were doing bugger all- that got them moving. You can’t carry all this on your own. For me it was realising I needed help and asking anyone who’d listen ( GP, social worker, even neighbours) , despite the shame and exhaustion I was feeling. I think you are going to have to reach out too, it could start with a conversation with your mothers GP outlining your concerns. They won’t be able to disclose anything o you, but they will note your concerns and maybe suggest some ways forward.

Why are you making yourself miserable looking so far into.the future.

You have no.idea what will happen, your mother could outlive your brother.
It's not your problem anyway yet.
Enjoy the present day

I see this a lot through work, men who have never managed to leave home and it I usually think that they have u diagnosis autism
The previous poster who mentioned about claiming UC is right, he would get the support of a job coach and there are schemes to help people get into work, this could be part time or maybe even freelance to suit him. This is better than it Ll falling apart when the inevitable happens.

Sorry I meant to say undiagnosed autism

Benefits would at least mean his NI stamp starts being covered, so it would help him more immediately than volunteering. It's not a plus point in any sense or some kind of moral win that he's not claiming.

And having to speak to an advisor once a week would give him some structure and accountability.

If you have any influence over him, get him to claim benefits and start doing some volunteering.

This is like reading my life. I thought I was the only one in this situation so it's reassuring that I'm not. I can relate. It's heartbreaking.

I have an otherwise good relationship with my mum, but we argue about this a lot. She refuses to address it head on in my view, or prepare him for the real world. My brother has never had a job, relationship and has no friends. He stays in his room all day playing computer games and gets up at lunchtime. He has access to a full fridge of food and 24 hour Internet access. In recent years he's found a love of running so does go out. But won't join us for family meals (either inside the house or out). I hate going to visit, because it makes me sad when we're all socialising and he's hiding upstairs in his room.

This is not about money. He is welcome to all my mums money in the world. I worry for him that one day he'll be on his own and he will have no clue that you need to pay for and arrange bin collections, who to call if something breaks etc. But yes, even with such a limited lifestyle he will still run out of money one day.

It's easy for people to say "tell him to get a job", "tell him to apply for benefits", "take him to a doctor", but he won't. He won't even speak to anyone in a shop.

I have no advice, but feel your pain. It causes me a lot of sadness. I hope you can find a way to navigate this x