Partner and mum have fallen out. Considering leaving.

[molrol1]

This is a long one however the context is key, so apologies!

As the title said, my partner of 12 years and my mum have fallen out whilst on a family holiday. He (in my opinion) took his bad mood out on her and behaved very rudely towards her, which she is upset and angry with him for. I was embarrassed by this however he has owned this and is willing to apologise for his behaviour.

During a talk, he maintained that his behaviour was triggered by a wider context of struggling with her general mood and attitude towards him, me and our children (5 and 2) and that I needed to address this with her so we can move forwards.

These are long standing issues he (and to some extent I) have with her. I suspect she is undiagnosed autistic and struggles with depression - she is very expressionless, really struggles with change in routine and plans, can’t really make any small talk at all and is quite cold and stilted generally however the biggest issue is her general irritability, snappiness and passive aggression. There have been multiple times which it has been downright uncomfortable to visit her and my father due to her mood. My partner is really affected by this and feels she often brings his mood down and detracts from events. He feels her behaviour is rude and that she doesn’t like him very much. It is worth mentioning though that my partner is quite sensitive and emotionally reactive so tends to feel these things quite deeply.

However his biggest issue is that she directs this towards our children. This is mostly in the context of her attempting to correct behaviour and discipline them however it is completely over the top - ie: snapping at my 5 year old for dropping a spoon or walking too slowly, harshly telling him to stop crying instead of comforting him and generally being irritated by him.

This is something we have discussed on multiple occasions and I always find myself stuck in the middle of as I can see how (if she is autistic) she finds these things hard but also recognise that my partner comes from a very warm, caring family who would never dream of treating our children that way.

An added complexity is that 4 years ago. My partner became an Alcoholic and suffered a breakdown after experiencing 2 significant family traumas in short time (loss of a parent and a close family members suicide). This actually occurred at my parents house and was very traumatic and his alcoholism really affected our relationship for 18 months afterwards. Thankfully, he is now in a healthier place and whilst he still drinks on occasion he mostly manages it well and no longer uses alcohol as a way to soothe his feelings. We have been fighting to overcome all the shit that goes along with an event like this, and have been in couples counselling for the last 5 months to address the anxiety I feel around him drinking on occasion. My parents never knew the extent of the issue beyond his initial breakdown but obviously this did some damage to their already strained relationship!

So. On holiday my mum is being her usual self (with added eye rolling and sighing whenever we asked her to help with the kids, but then saying she is happy to do it etc) and my partner begins to be affected by it after a few days. He goes out for some beers with another family member and we have an argument when he returns (not because of the drinking, but rather because he was late back for some plans) the argument put my partner into a bad mood and then he was further triggered by my mum later that night, he bit back at her and thus we have the fall out.

I spoke to my mum today to try to explain where my partner was coming from in his response to her (ahead of him texting her) however the conversation went very badly. My mum basically denied that she behaves in this way towards our children and denied that she was rolling her eyes (even though I saw it multiple times) she began shouting that what i was saying was bullshit and I was making her out to be a horrible person. She stated “from now on I’ll just do as I’m told and won’t bother getting involved at all” before hanging up. She also said she feels my partner was in a bad mood because he had been drinking too much over the holiday and was deflecting this onto her.

I feel absolutely wretched about this as mum has a hard life and clearly isn’t happy, I don’t want to be another source of unhappiness for her. I am also upset because I feel like my partner pushed for me to talk to her about her general attitude and I did so despite knowing she probably wouldn’t recognise it or accept it. The statement she made about him drinking too much has resonated as I did feel this way too and the whole thing has just left me feeling deflated and exhausted and with a sense that I am once again dragged along on the rollercoaster ride created by the impact of my partners drinking and his sensitivity and reactiveness to situations. However I am also mindful that my mums reaction was ridiculous and it is reminiscent of many times in my childhood where I felt intense anxiety at the thought of ever upsetting her because of her reactions. So I feel confused, upset, and don’t even know who is right or wrong anymore. I just want to run away and clear my head. sometimes I dream of leaving my partner and having a fresh start but the reality is that I won’t.

I’m also on #TeamHusband too.

#TeamAlcoholicPartner

One thing - it’s not your job to make your mother happy.

That is something jumping out at me from your posts how you don’t want to make her unhappy. You’re not responsible for her happiness.

So let's turn this around. Imagine it's you who is emotionally sensitive, and have been traumatised by a close family death and a suicide.

Your MIL can't make small talk and is emotionally stilted, generally irritable, snappy and passive aggressive. She's moody and as well as disliking you, she directs her bad behaviour towards your children, snapping at them, getting irritable and unable to comfort them if they cry.

Despite your traumas, and your fall into alcoholism to cope, you've managed to climb back out, are managing your condition, and you're doing couples counselling with your partner to improve your relationship.

Despite all of the above, your partner sometimes thinks of leaving you because his mother has had an abusive childhood and he feels sorry for her.

How would you feel about that? Supported?

I'm Team Partner here too.

Sounds like a pressure cooker with your h trying to keep everyone sane. Were they the only children?

Two things can be true ie both your mother and your partner can be awful. But , why on earth are you subjecting yourself to a holiday with your mother when you know she's not nice. You need to have a view of your husband that's not tainted by your mother being an arse as that is clouding it. What do you think of him, what do you want to do, about your partner? I used to get cross at my husband as I found it stressful when he was with my mother, I've realised now that he isn't at all at fault, he just hasn't been groomed like me to put up with her selfish and shitty behaviour. But for ages I thought it was him "rocking the boat" not realising i let her get away with murder. Your situation is different as he also is not a good partner.

It sounds like a situation where both people are struggling.

Honestly they are probably both best kept apart.

It does also sound like your mother is not good for your children to be around. I'd be limiting how much she sees them.

Your mother's happiness is not your responsibility. You say that you cannot stand to see her unhappy. You might benefit from therapy around this topic.

Your partner also sounds like he has issues, but at least he is making steps to address them which your mum doesn't seem willing to do.

@molrol1 regardless of your partners behaviour and issues with alcohol - you are pandering to and excusing your mothers.

She won’t discuss the issues her behaviour causes. She Denys there is an issue and resorts to emotionally loaded threats. She won’t seek help. I’m sure you tiptoe around topics and situations so as not to trigger her. Everyone ignoring her behaviour because ‘it’s not her fault it’s just how she is’. That’s enabling.

You are telling her this behaviour is ok by accepting it. People can be autistic/ND and still be areaholes. Her behaviour is something she should be able to learn different methods and coping strategies to have better social awareness and understanding but she is t interested in doing that as she doesn’t need to.

by all means dump your partner if you want. But I do wonder how much calmer life is without the added stress of her moods in your life would be for you and your partner.

I think I’d be leaving both of them behind , your mums behaviour is out of order and your partner is alcoholic so will be taking a toll on you and the children , even if it doesn’t seem that bad now .

Autism is not a reason to be a shit person. Your mother's behaviour as described is not typical of someone who is autistic. Rolling eyes and sighing when asked to do something is absolutely not an autistic trait. She's just an abusive person. Emotionally the "I'll just so what I'm told stuff", and verbally, snapping at little children for insignificant accidents.

Your husband needs to stop drinking completely. Recovered alcoholics don't drink at all. He is still an alcoholic. That's a reason to leave him if he won't stop.

However he's right about your mother and you need to stop exposing your children to this abusive behaviour. Her past is not a justification and you need to stop the cycle.

You’re completely enmeshed with your mother and don’t see her toxic behaviour properly
you’re allowing her to treat you, your partner and most importantly your young dc appallingly and you are making constant excuses for it. You shouldn’t need a child to tell you they don’t like to be shouted at over nothing, in order to speak to her. You should be the one policing the behaviour around your children, and ensuring they’re treated well. And what good is speaking to her anyway because she doesn’t listen, will you allow her to continue to mistreat your children because she’s had a difficult life?

your dp is also an alcoholic and trying to get away with still drinking

OP,I suggest you get counselling for yourself and stop seeking approval of your mother.

Look at your posts again.

How old your DC are? 2 and 5? Your mother snapping at them for walking too slow or dropping the spoon?

Looks like no amount of talking is going to change your mother’s behaviour but if you don’t protect you DC from her (and this is what your partner is going to do) your kids end up being nervous wrecks and will be severely damaged.

Stop making excuses for you mother and her awful and abusing behaviour towards the kids.

Limit the exposure of your DC to your mother.

The family you created is more important than the one you came from.

This

I am team children of the OP.
Her mother is abusive. This poor 5 year old is being terrorised by her which will cause untold damaged.
Her husband is an alcoholic who is actively drinking. You can’t do controlled drinking as an alcoholic. You are either sober or you are drinking.
Both have issues, and I understand particularly in the case of the partner that he’s sensitive and been through a fair bit recently.
But both of these adults need to step up and neither are. There are young children in the mix here who deserve better than an abusive grandmother and a drunk father.
I would think the mother is never going to change.
The partner might but he needs to decide to get help and take responsibility.
OP needs to remove herself from trying to heal this rift and I think right now both her mother and partner seem to be in no fit state to be around these children.

Also stop making excuse for her.

You’re feeling protective of her- are you not feeling protective of your children?

Plenty of people had harsh,abusive upbringing and they don’t take it out on the others,especially defenceless small children.

You don’t want to be another source of unhappiness for your mother- nobody can make your mother happy. Her mental state is not your responsibility. You can’t change who she is.

You’re willing to sacrifice your relationship,your children and yourself to try to appease snappy,grumpy,rude and abusive woman.

I was married to an alcoholic (thankfully he’s sober now and we get on well/he has a good relationship with our lovely daughter etc), and I also grew up with a mother with narcissistic traits/control issues/anger issues etc… I was having to deal with my husband and her at the same time, on family occasions, and especially when things reached their peak re my husband’s drinking etc. They would argue with each other and I’d get confused at times as I thought ‘my mum is being protective of me and is really upset with him for how he’s treating me, his drinking etc’- but her involvement just made things worse a lot of the time for me, and she loves drama etc. my husband would also use her as a weapon and a distraction from HIS behaviour. It was hell, and in the end I wanted to get away from both of them. I feel for you… when I went to Al Anon I was not surprised to discover that a lot of the women there who were in relationships with alcoholic men had had very difficult /‘toxic’ mothers. Is this something you can talk about with a therapist?
I can understand why your partner is struggling with your mother, based on what you’ve described. But as others have said, I can also see that your husband needs help to stop drinking completely. At the moment they’re both causing you anguish and anxiety and you must try to think about what you and your children need now from both of them. But I’d say mainly focus on your husband and your marriage primarily and put some boundaries in with your mum to enable that, if you can? she cannot take priority right now.
I hope some of that makes sense to you…
And the one I have the issue with now is my mother. Not my ex. I have a good relationship with him as a co-parent, and he has remained sober.
Try to focus on your needs. Not your mother’s. Or your husband’s. I know it’s hard.

I’m on your partners and children’s side here.

Your upbringing has completely numbed you to the damage your mother is doing to your family. You need to protect them against her. Why did you even go on holiday with her!

Whatever happened with your partner coming in late last night is none of your mother’s business.

Thank you for this! Our situations sound similar so it’s good to hear that there is a way through. I have noticed my mum also loves drama and I have felt that if I express any dissatisfaction with my partner my mum will jump on this quickly. It’s very difficult. I have dipped into Al anon in the past but thinking I might reach out to my old therapist to resume some sessions as clearly I’ve got a lot to work through!!

My mum could start an argument in an empty room, and has the emotional capacity of a teaspoon. I love the woman, but she’s a nightmare sometimes.

You do get desensitised to it. I got engaged recently, she lost her mind and said some deeply hurtful things - in the past I’d have been bothered by that but I just ignore her now - literally. I don’t go to her begging for imaginary forgiveness, or pandering to her. Leave her to it and play the long game.

Gradually over time I’ve learned to put boundaries in with her. She might have some issues, but it’s still an unacceptable way to behave and I don’t have to accept it. Neither do you.

Please look at how you can either gradually put your foot down with your mum, or back off. It’ll honestly do you the world of good.

I feel for you having a mother like that but the fact is that your partner is turning to alcohol whenever he gets a bit fed up and that's going to increasingly be a problem for you. He doesn't take responsibility for this and is blaming your mum for his actions. I think he can quite rightly blame your mum for creating a miserable atmosphere but it was his decision to go off drinking and his alone.

At least he's trying to protect your children from your mother. Which is a lot more than you're doing.
Why aren't you?

I am not trying to excuse her behaviour at all. But the fallout absolutely occurred because my partner was defensive about his drinking and was in a reactive mood which he took out on her but understandably after a week of trying to manage his feelings around her!

Did it? Or did it occur because your mum needled him past breaking point and he was less inclined to tolerate it? You seem to be expecting your DP to just suck up and accept her behaviour in perpetuity, so then when there's an argument it's not because of her constant poor behaviour, but him daring to snap back.

Why don't you have his back? Why aren't you prioritising your children over her? Your kids won't thank you when you're older for letting granny shout at them because you feel sorry for her

What she said.

There's every chance OP, that you were trained by your mother to accept the role of rescuer and victim. That is now the reality in your marriage.

One doesn't excuse the other but it might explain it.

In an ideal world you would take some time away from both of them to rest, recuperate, get some talking therapy, work out your wants, needs, motivations and boundaries. In reality, they are trying to make you choose between them. Choose neither. Choose yourself and your children. You and the kids don't need a cold, emotionally absent, eye-rolling authoritarian. And you don't need a sensitive, emotionally incontinent alcoholic either.

You DM, whether on some level she means well or not, sounds like an unpleasant person to be around. I'd be drinking if I had to go on holiday with her too! I couldn't tell if your DH is a diagnosed lifelong alcoholic or had a dependency on alcohol at a stressful time.

I'd limit interaction with DM to scheduled visits and let DH opt out of them with kids -- and certainly don't holiday with her again. If you're worried about DH's drinking and it tipping over to more again discuss it with him. If he's an actual alcoholic, he shouldn't be drinking at all as he won't be able to stop at one or two.

I feel for you OP here. Your husband is an alcoholic and your mother is autistic. You were crazy going on a holiday together, but hey ho you live and learn. More worryingly you are the only stable for your kids, you need to be well and strong for them. Please find the strength to start a fresh with your kids away from all this toxicity

Your mother is obviously controlling everyone around her by making them afraid of her anger whenever she is challenged. Do keep going to the couple counselling and also consider AlAnon, which is a valuable organisation for the relatives and friends of alcoholics. Your husband obviously needs help, but you can't help someone with a drinking problem by joining in the cycle of anxiety and escape that problem drinking involves. Do accept some help for yourself here – it will help everyone else too. In the meantime, consider that you are rewarding your mother's bad manners and selfish behaviours by not supporting your children when she victimises them. It's understandable that you are conditioned to propitiate and make allowances for her, since you've been doing this ever since you were a little child completely in her power. But your own children don't deserve to be conditioned to accept abusive behaviour. Think about whether there is a generational cycle here that you could break by standing up for your children and working on your own triggers. Good luck. With courage and good will you'll get through this and life will be better for all of you.