Nine year old daughters behaviour breaking me and the family apart?

[Alotofpink]

I don’t know how to start really but I’m really struggling at the moment and don’t know how to make it better.

Basically daughter is at the beginning of a SEND referral. She can’t take being told to do anything, from turning the light off to getting ready for school, reading etc etc. Complains every time we go out of the house because she wants to be in control of where we go, if it’s not somewhere she wants to go then she will play up. She gives me terrible looks and tells me I’m a terrible mum, Im nothing like all the other mums. Her dad literally can’t take it anymore as she has placed him into an enemy position so literally snarls and eye rolls him. I’m also an enemy and she looks at me with such hate at times but I have to get her ready.

If I’m honest I’m starting to dread our days, dread having to ask her to do anything and often find ways of letting her get her way. I try so hard to feel love and understand that she doesn’t do this on purpose but I’m really struggling with this now. My little girl just has such hate towards me most of the time. The school are trying to work with her around feelings of others etc etc. She just simply says she doesn’t care, I want my way, I don’t see why I can’t have my way when I want.

Anyone have any advice please?

Does the love feel sincere or manipulative? Narcissists soon learn that to get what they want they must imitate emotions. They will say things like “oh, it’s so sad that X died, I’m so sorry for his wife and children,” etc, yet you sense that they feel nothing. They’ve just learned that people approve of kindness and compassion.

Actually, OP, that sounded a little callous. Sorry. I’m sure your daughter isn’t a full-blown narcissist. But she may have some of the traits. If she does, you need to identify them and find out if it’s possible to steer her development in another direction.

She has so much empathy especially for crying babies and children and older people. She always waves and knocks on the windows to say hello on the way to school to the elderly ladies on our route. I always think she’d be great with them one day. She isn’t manipulative in any way really.

I think you need to research PDA and ODD. My friend has a child with PDA, and it's been really challenging. Her and her H have basically had to relearn everything they thought they knew about parenting. They also have separated their kids to a degree because the family unit just wasn't working for anyone. They now split up. One with go out with their ND child and one with the NT child and the next day they swap. They also found a nanny that specialises in autism and PDA so they can get out occasionally and also to take some of the load.

Op, every local authority has a parent carers forum, there you will find other parents of children who are ND, have disabilities etc, please search out to them, for support for you.

if your child has PDA/Autism then low demand is the way forward as is therapeutic parenting and the model is not about behaviour but about connection. Especially when u acknowledge the behaviour is about a fight/flight response, anxiety based etc.

when she is is distress (however that looks), be present, connect with her, she is not stupid, she knows it hurts, you don’t need to tell her, just be with her and acknowledge her hurt. Don’t try and stop it of talk over her, show her, her feelings/distress won’t push you away.

repair your relationship with dd and that will help. In no way am I saying you are at fault. Others don’t get it, other tools work for other families, but unlikely to work for yours.

if you work, your employer might have support options, Employee assistance etc.

I hope posting here has reminded you, you are not alone!

Pretty sure narcissism is a red herring here and that PDA/autism are much much more relevant framings. Also pretty sure that the OP is already beginning to be an expert, thanks to her own experience and information gathering, and doesn't need to be told to do research.

Lovely post, @ilovethewild. I wish i had understood more about the approach you are summarising when I was struggling to deal with my son. I was so much at a loss.

Op I would get onto the special needs boards here. There are many many wise parents there who have been through what you are going through.

there will be a lot of parents who don’t know how to deal with SEN and will talk about ‘consequences’ . This simply will not work and you will upset yourself and feel inadequate because they will not work on a child with SEN.

there is a book called ‘the explosive child’ which is very good. It’s all about knowing your child’s limits and what they can be expected to to do- within their limits and abilities.

you need to cut yourself some slack because you think you should be able to solve this with the tools a parent of a neurotypical child has - but you need a different skillset. I really hope you can get the support and tools you need.

is there a local group for parents of ASD children?

I’ve just finished the thread and I was going to recommend the same thing and that book in particular.

Talk to other PDA parents and hear their stories and what works for them. Standard approaches are often counterproductive when it comes to PDA. The Facebook support group is very good and much more tailored. There is comfort in knowing you are not alone and I’ve seen lots of posts with very similar stories to yours. You don’t need a diagnosis to experiment with their solutions and see what works for your family.

I imagine you’re feeling pretty overwhelmed with all the advice on the thread so don’t want to add to the pile but some things that I didn’t spot mentioned were:

• the declarative language handbook by Linda Murphy is so useful in your day to day life
• Low demand parenting by Amanda Diekman is also very powerful
• ”At Peace Parents” on Facebook has some great and short explainers on all things PDA (including lashing out at siblings aka equalising behaviour)

If it is PDA, the main advice is always to first deal with the anxiety/burn out by reducing demands for a while and that means letting go of a lot. Much more than you expect and probably for longer too. Ask yourself honestly “does this really matter to us” and forget about stuff that people say everyone “should” do e.g. sitting at the table for dinner together.

It’s a hard road but when you find what works it’s also really freeing! Good luck!

www.sibs.org.uk/

That's a charity you might find useful re your youngest.

You and DH might benefit from NVR techniques. We used New Leaf NVR. Yvonne Newbold has resources online too.

@AlbertCamusflage's advice is good.

I had to get into bed with my 12 year old for a few minutes last night and just be silly with her.

You'd think she'd be too old for that but she worries about all sorts of things especially at night time.

Don't take advice from people who haven't themselves, got a child who hits, too seriously.

It's quite common with ASD kids this age but those who haven't experienced it, won't have useful advice.

Pathological demand avoidance is a cry for help.
The child is totally overwhelmed by the world and it’s pressures that they are in fear anxiety all the time - exhausting
It requires a different parenting style. Out go demands we found offering a choice of two was life changing , in comes the concept of choice.
The explosive child is a good read
I also would recommend speaking to Caroline Sutton hypnotherapist - anxiety specialist- on Facebook
she specialises in anxiety her son Max ( Max in a million) has pda so she has a wealth of practical experience