Lonely as Hell and feel so abnormal :-(

[shinealight]

Hi, sorry if this is not the right place to post this. I've been a regular reader of mumsnet but never had the balls to post anything before but dont know where else I can turn.

I just dont feel this is normal, I'm married with 4 dc, my marriage as it's ups and downs like all marriages, dh loves me and I love him, I adore our dc and love spending time with them, playing, helping with homework, reading etc but when they are in bed or doing their own thing I'm so bloody miserable and lonely.

We work from home, dh and I have seperate jobs abd although we see each other alot through the the day and night I just feel invisible most of the time. We chat and joke together and get along fine (he's an arsehole at times but arn't all men?) thats not really the issue, I think we get used to the way our partners are and learn to deal with them best we can.

I feel my problem is I feel so trapped, I have no friends, my dh says he loves spending time with me, even if we're not doing anything or talking etc, just being in the same room or around each other is what makes him happy, I on the other hand although I love my family feel I need more. He hates me spending time with anyone else and moaned constantly if I called round to friends or chatted on the phone/online with them so eventually I kept in contact with them less and less until it eventually fizzled out.

I know I should just grab the bull b y the horns and get out and meet new people or catch up with old friends again but I just feel like I've dug myself into such a deep lonely hole I can't find my way out. I know that if I did contact old friends again or tried to go out it would cause a row and I don't want that, the fact that I kept up with contact in secret when dh thought I was no longer in touch with friends says it all really.

I was such an outgoing person with lots of friends when dh and I met and in the early days when dating etc before marriage and dh would complain if I wanted to go out etc I would pay little attention but over the yrs I started to make excuses to friends and stay in for an easy life. But I've done that for so many yrs now I feel like this is all I have now.

I've tried to discuss it with dh and he just says he doesn't stop me doing anything I want to do (he doesn't by physical means) but he does mentally/emotionally IYKWIM. He says theres nothing wrong with wanting to spend all his time with me and loves me being around, I love spending time with him too but I just feel I need time to be ME not just a wife or mother. I don't want to argue with him about it and I don't want any friction but I'm feeling so low at the thought of having no-one else but my dh & dc in my life.

I'm sorry if I sound pathetic and I know I should just be greatful I have a loving dh and 4 beautiful and healthy dc considering the crap some women have to deal with but I just needed to let it all out before I scream.

I think it's just down to different personality types. Dh is quite happy to never have any contact with anyone other than ds or me. I need very little other contact but do need some.

Dh on the other hand has other things (hobbies) that he needs to do on a regular basis. What's worked for us is to treat my socialising as he treats his hobbies - allocate a set time every week for it and make sure that time is available for me.

It helps him to understand as well when I tell him that this is for me as playing his piano is for him, just something that I enjoy doing and that makes me happy. Nothing to do with being unhappy with him.

If you have it built into your routine like this as well you won't feel guilty when you take the time to do it. If your friends are not available one week at the set time, you can just go away and have some 'me' time.

There is nothing abnormal or unhealthy about the way either of you are imo, just different.

emotional blackmail, bullying - call it what you want- that's what your DH is dishing out.

What is he afraid of? That by meeting friends you will not want him? Why does he feel so threatened?

Of course you need more in your life than just one person and your kids. Just because he is happy with living an isolated life, doesn't mean you have to!

Can I ask why you are asking him for permission to have friends? Why don't you just get on with going out? Phone your old friends or email them; join an exercise class or something; volunteer to help at the kids' schools- whatever you enjoy- just get out of the house and meet people!

You are just going to have to face any rows that come- and if they do,is this really the sort of man you want in your life? He needs to sort his head out- and maybe see if counselling will help as he certainly has a problem.

Don't let his issues and problems become yours- it really is bullying and I really hope you find the courage to do what YOU want!

This sounds like a classic!

Lots of men I know see their wives/partners as their best friends.

But most women I know would say that is def not the case for themselves - we all have female friends who are extremely important to us.

So by all means let him carry on with you as his best friend - but you need to go out and find some female friends. IMO that is what you're missing.

If you are so scared of rows that you can't even meet up with an old friend then it will be hard but it will be worth it.

Also (and i don't mean to be unkind) I do think your partner has subtly gained control over you and your life through his manipulative personality - which is fine if that's what you want. But absolutely not fine if you would prefer thinsg to be different.

Be brave. Tell him you're off out and go. Even if it's only to an evening class; swimming/exercise class or the PTA!

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting more than a husband and children. It is not wrong to want friends as well.

At the time, did his behaviour have anything to do with the fact that he didn't want to be left in sole charge of your 4 children? Or was it just sheer possessiveness of you? If it was the former, it is understandable to feel that way, but not fair to not allow you to have some time outside of the house and childcare. Or, if it was the latter, possessiveness, that is controlling and selfish and just not on.

It is a shame that you let your previous friendships slide. It won't be that easy to build up a new circle of friends. He shouldn't have prevented you from having a social life outside the home, especially when you work from home too. No wonder you feel trapped.

I don't know how old your children are but, if I were you, I would tell him that you are having a night 'off' each week while he babysits and you do a night-class or go to the cinema or whatever. If he complains, stick to your guns and insist. Likewise, he should have a night to himself too. And, you two should occasionally have a night where you go out together and focus on each other. Or, if he is possessive, why couldn't the two of you start a hobby together and make new friends that way, together. It might liven up your marriage and stop you feeling trapped.

Yes but not going out with people 'for an easy life' has not led to such an easy life for you now, SAL, has it? This is thoroughly manipulative behaviour. People in prison have more opportunities to socialise than you do. Your prison may be wrapped in lovinng, guilt-tripping words, but it is a prison nevertheless.

Do you have facebook or MSN? Start with these perhaps to get back in touch with some old friends.

Your husband's behaviour IS classic, and it is WRONG.

I dont think you sound pathetic at all, maybe dh is frightened that if you have friends you will spen less and less time with him, i think a perfect solution would be to get friendly with another couple. Do your friends have husbands that would get on with your husband? i think it would be ideal if you invited your friend and her partner round for drinks or whatever and your dh would probably really enjoy himself and loosen up abit

I have just picked up on something I didn't notice. You say "I don't want to argue with him".

Why on earth not?!! Can't you see what this is? It is bullying. it is about control, and making sure you are "his" and no-one else's. People like your DH think that people have a finite amount of love to go round- and if they give it to others such as friends, then there will be less for them.

I think you have gone along with this for a while because you lack the confidence to go out with friends. But it is not making you happy.

Emailing your mates is as easy as posting on here ... do it there is no hole too deep you can't get yourself out of it believe me. I myself have jsut contacted an old friend after many years after a very nasty split, it was the last thing I expected but I was welcomed with open arms. Your DH needs to be mature enough to let go of you a bit and you need to be strong enough to stand your ground. A conversation (not confrontation) telling him how you feel is probably in order just don't just terms like ...i need more...i'm bored...etc as that will be deeply hurtful to him. Instead explain that you want to recontact your friends simply because they are your friends and you miss them, no further explanation needed.

I do think unless you deal with this and soon you and he could be facing a broken marriage, relationships do tend to crack under this kind of strain. You could also discuss this with him, again not as a threat ...we'll break up unless you let me do what I want...but more in terms of...I love you and us and I want this to work and for us both to be happy.

I hope that helps a little, good luck

Thank you to everyone for your replies

dh does have his own hobbies that he enjoys but they don't take him away from home much and although I will listen to him rabbit on about it it really doesn't interest me, he knows this but he'll still rabbit on lol. We do have different personalities, I'm a people person, dh is when it suits him but will avoid socialising as much as possible, although we met when we where both out with seperate friends and both enjoyed other peoples company many yrs ago though I must add.

I really do see what your saying about just 'going for it' but it really isn't that easy, I joined an excercise class last yr and he moaned about it and would question me if I was late back, who was there etc, it made me feel so uneasy like I was under suspicion of something that I stopped bothering to go.

I was afraid some would see this as bullying or controlling and I guess in a way I know it is myself, he is my best friend and I love him dearly. I hate arguing and there being an atmosphere so I tend to seethe about things privately and just try to move on, I've tried to discuss and explain things to him in the past but everything I say gets dismissed as being stupid and not worthy of discussion so I've learned not to bother wasting my time trying anymore.

It's not that I'm afraid of the marriage ending or dh leaving, sometimes I think that would be preferable to way things are now. I'm not really a weak person and don't really understand how I've allowed this to happen.

Over several yrs I've tried to change things, as said before I started an excercise class although this was with our eldest daughter, I started a college course, I used to meet up with mums of teens to chat and get advice on dealing with teen probs etc. Before starting working from home I went out to work 4 days a week and it caused nothing but arguments, dh would complain that getting dc up and out to school on time was getting him down and was hard work (I totally understand the difficulty, girls wouldn't leave till hair and make-up was just right) but this couldn't be helped at the time because I had to leave for work early to get there on time, thats why I eventually started working from home to help with school mornings.

I do have msn, (never used facebook or anything else) but I never use it anymore, that caused problems too cos dh would stress about the time I spent chatting and wanted to read my messages to see what was going on. I feel like I'm having an affair or being suspected of having one because everything I do I feel I have to hide, even posting on here today has been scary trying to find a few moments to type then copy and come back to it to type some more when the coast is clear.

I was slim and maybe attractive-ish when dh and I met but over the yrs I've gained weight, got older etc. I don't consider myself a 'catch' IYKWIM so don't understand why dh would even consider anyone else would find me attractive, I know yrs ago this was a concern to him and he always considered himself to have a beautiful wife/gf and never wanted to lose me. He loves me regardless of my fluctuating weight, although I sometimes wonder if he's happier now i'm heavier because I'm not as confident in myself (although another man is not what I want and have no desire to attract one)

He wouldn't be happy if I invited married friends round etc infact he'd probably do all he could to avoid this as well, he gets on well with people he knows and will chat for hours on the phone with people he knows but he never calls them, it's always them who call him. I do think he thinks me spending time with others means less time, love, affection whatever for him but I'm a happier person in myself when I have other people I can chat with but he puts everyone I've ever met or called a friend down and says I'm naive and shouldn't put trust in people and they're not really friends etc. Yes, sometimes he's been right and people I considered as friends have let me down in the past but I never allowed it to stop me being the same with others, I'm a nice person and a good friend (sorry, don't mean that in a big headed way) and I know not everyone is like that but I can't help the way I am but dh just wont see it from my point of view

Sorry I forgot to add, dc are aged between 8 - 20 yrs. Our eldest doesn't live at home anymore so eldest at home is 15.

SAL- what are you saying here? That you aren't prepared to rock the boat and will put up with this for ever?

Excuse me saying this, but your post simply exudes negativity- you say you have tried things before and for whatever reason it didn't work- or you gave up. Well, you have a choice- either stay as you are, or try again.

I am sorry to day this, but your DH sounds totally selfish and juvenile. I don't know him at all, but the picture you paint is of a very immature man who bullies you to get his own way.

You seem now to have very low self-esteem. All of this can be changed- you can lose weight, give yourself a makeover and make the best of what you've got! I don't know how old you are, but as an over 50 I feel great and don't consider myself old or past it at all!

All it takes is the desire to make these changes. WHY are you allowing a man like this to destroy your confidence, your self-esteem and your social network?

You don't need his permission- or even a discussion about any of this. Just get on with your life and he has to either cope with it- or walk away. I wish dearly that you could see that he is a man with deep problems, who needs help. You seem to want to protect him from his faults, by allowing him to dominate you.

PLEASE SAL- this is the 21stC- not the 19th!!! There is no need for any woman to be treated like this.

I am sorry if I sound harsh but your posts have made me feel so angry- for YOU- and I just wish you could stand up for yourself and stop making excuses.

OK, having read your subsequent posts I take it back - that does sound abnormal. I was thinking you had a gaggle of toddlers which just made it logistically difficult to find the time to go see people.

He himself is one of those friends who has let you down. Everybody lets everybody down at sometime or another, we are all mere mortals.... but I bet not one of your other friends was doing it every day under the pretence of having your best interests at heart. Sorry, he is abusing you, SAL, and you are letting him do it for a quiet life.

Your post is typical of abused women. You complain about his behaviour, then go and justify it.

DH doesn't have to see anything from your point of view. He just has to accept it. Oh my life, having been a seriously squashed woman, it makes me furious when I see it happening to someone else. I know I wouldn't have listened to anyone else, so I don't really expect you to change anything radically. It is hard to get out from under. But seriously, I am angry on your behalf.

when he gets annoyed with you going out, having friends, talking, emailing etc, he is keeping you prisoner, it seems. no different to a guy with a big cellar, except in degree.....

take no shit from him, tell him what you want, need, would like, and ignore his moaning. he does not own or rule you. if anything it sounds as though he needs a dog to control, and you are taking it's place, with or without knowing it. he is a control freak, stop letting him do it.

Yes, his moaning only works because you let it. He has learned that if he does it, you will give in. This is your doing really, and you must learn to undo it if you want to have friends. Sorry, I hate nagging people, but think this is true.

shinealight i feel sad for you. Such set patterns of behaviour are very hard to change, and of course you are feeling negative; it is not something you can just snap out of.

Your messages touch a nerve with me. My father was very controlling and because of him (i believe) my parents didn't really have any friends, apart from two very old girlfriends of my mums who maybe visited once or twice a year. When my Mum died and I cleared out her stuff I was amazed to find letters from when she was first married which were from old work colleagues. They were full of warmth, banter and in-jokes and reminded me so much of the friendships I have. Reading them showed me a different side to my lovely Mum and made me incredibly sad. As time went on the letters gradually petered out........It makes me tearful again just thinking about it.

Please try and make changes, even just a small change at a time. We all need people other than our partners - any Mumsnet thread shows you that.

You have to talk to your DH.

Incidentally, what is his attitude to your DCs having friends?

SAL, this is not normal behaviour, you must do something about this, the posters who have said he is keeping you prisoner are right, i know it sounds a little dramatic, but it is true. What would happen if you went out with friends anyway? Has he ever been at all violent? are you scared of him?

Your DH wants you to be his all and everything and thinks you should be happy with him in return. You need more. That is absolutely normal. It is stifling to only have your DH for company and you absolutely must start making contact with old friends again, then gradually doing new things for you. Tell DH that you need eg one evening a week where you can go out and meet a friend. That is SO not an unreasonable request. Let him look at this thread if he disagrees!!

Thank you all again for your replies

Having re-read over and over all the posts I am now starting to believe that it is not abnormal to want more than just my dh and dc for company. I do agree with the comments made about him controlling me and me allowing him to do it. Tbh I don't honestly think he see's it this way, it's his belief that he is protecting me from others who may hurt me physically or emotionally and can not see that he is actually hurting me by being this way.

I tried to have a talk with him about it yesterday but I didn't get very far when I said it would be nice to catch up with a couple of my old friends, he said I was better off without them and gave me that 'look' that I know so well. Normally I would have left it there but I continued and I said that I would like a bit of 'me' time and I would like to perhaps start another college course in Sept. He said "yeah, if thats what you want" it is his typical response to most things but when the time arrives to do it he either moans on the days running up to it or keeps asking me if I'm going to bother or something crops up out of the blue and I'm unable to go as he as something to do that he can't get out of

Taking a good hard look at it all I've realised that I am being weak by just going along with not doing something because it would keep dh happy. I'm angry with myself now because I never used to be this type of person. I had a tough upbringing, my mother was at best useless, haven't seen my father since I was 5 yrs old. I learned to stand on my own two feet and bring my self up from a young age, made me own decisions and took shit from no-one, where the hell as that person gone

I really want to change but don't feel I have the energy or the will to do it anymore or even where the hell to start. I get these fleeting moments of strength and think I'm going to change things and then the next moment I'm back to thinking it's not worth the hassle and I feel weak again

MsBombastic, sorry I forgot to answer your question. dh doesn't mind the dc having friends. We are both protective of them and don't allow them to just go off wandering whenever and wherever they chose but as long as we know where they are and who they're with theres no problem.
They go to friends for tea after school and after school clubs etc, their friends come around to our house and he seems to have no problem with that. He will even chat to the parents of our dc friends and gets along well with them when he goes to pick them up or if they call round to collect their dc but he has no interest in socialising with any of them. But he's happy to spend the day with people he knows when involved in his hobby, it is rare that he is away at the moment but thats really down to the financial side of it, if the cost wasn't an issue he would spend more time away enjoying his hobby regardless of anyone or anything else. Thats really the selfish side of him.

When you first got together, was he 'the knight in shining armour', the rescuer, making up for the father you never had??

If so, he probably doesn't understand that you have evolved and do not need him in that way anymore. He is reacting strongly because he is used to being in control of you and your social life.

You are going to have to be very strong here to overrule him, because it sounds like he has a lot invested in being the one and only in your life, for whatever reason.

SAL- I'm glad you have posted again and made us know how you are feeling.

Could you get angry? Not with your DH face to face, but with the way he has destroyed your confidence? Can you acknowledge that HE is the one with a problem- and maybe you should say that to him- and suggest he goes to counselling to try to discover why he is so insecure and jealous?

Make yourself a target- such as meeting one friend again this week.

WHY are you even discussing it with HIM? you KNOW how he will react!!! JUST DO IT11

WHY do you need his approval and permission to live a normal life? Does he dominate you in everything you do?

If you can't work this out yourself, I'd suggest you find a counsellor, or a life coach, who can help you get out of this mess.
Don't want to sound unkind, but you really do need help.

Hi Janni, I've been mulling over your question carefully before responding, remembering back to how things where when we met. He wasn't my 'usual' type, I'd previously dated guys that where more the 'bad boy' type, not nasty just more the type that give you a real buzz IYKWIM. dh was quite shy and what I'd describe as sickly sweet in the early days, very affectionate and attentive (too much so at times) but I was sick of always living on the edge and having guys treat me disrespectfully I decided to give myself a chance of happiness with dh.

I've been going over past events and I can't really say he's that supportive of me, for instance his mother was very rude to me when we met and as always tried to get little digs in whenever we met and dh never stood up for me which did hurt a great deal. I have very little if anything to do with her anymore because of her attitude. Another thing is when I've set my heart on losing weight he seems to want to scupper me at any eventuality. I'm crap at sicking to diets and I tend to get terrible cravings for chocolate, when I tell him I fancy a bit of chocolate he will gladly go to the shop and bring me back a large bag of 4 or 5 chocolate bars, snickers/mars/kit kats etc and I'm so pathetically weak that I will eat the lot in a few hours I know thats my own fault for being so bloody greedy but it annoys me after and blame dh for not being more encouraging (which I guess is unfair of me)

I used to meet up with a support group (mums of teens) once a month and everytime the day came around to meet dh would constantly go on about how it seemed pointless to him and or the traffic would be bad or the weather was bad and would go on and on about it until I eventually stopped going just to stop him moaning.

Loopylou6 - I did go out with old friends from work a couple of yrs ago. It was a friends 40th and he seemed ok-ish with it at the time, however he complained that we where too old to go out clubbing and he wouldn't have a problem if we where just going out for a quite drink and a meal but kept going on about it not being safe at night and anything could happen to me. I just told him I was a big girl and I'd have all the girls with me to keep me safe and there was no way I was going to let her down on her birthday after I'd promised to go.

I did go and had a bloody fantastic night I'd forgotten what it was like to have fun and I wanted more of it. dh didn't speak to me properly for 2 days and kept nagging at me because I got drunk (truth be told I was legless lol) and when I said we had decided to make a pact to get together once a month for a girls night out he told me in no uncertain terms that that wouldn't be happening, surfice to say that was the last time I went out.

There has been violence in the marriage many yrs ago but tbh it was 6 of one half a dozen of the other, I was very hurt and damaged from past experiences. I trusted no-one and expected him to hit me sooner or later and would push buttons to get a reaction. If he'd have told me and even suggested I couldn't do something when we met I'd have told him where to stick it and gone anyway just to piss him off. I've calmed down with age and counselling and don't rise to anything much anymore and just tend to accept things rather than row about it.

hls - I honestly don't know why I feel I need his permission or approval? but it's evident from my own posts that I feel I do maybe it has to do with my upbringing, I was left alone alot and didn't feel wanted or loved, I wasn't really given much attention unless it suited my mother to do so and was pushed from pillar to post while she basically slagged around (harsh but true)

Maybe thats what I'm looking for in dh, to make me feel as if my needs are worthy and have some meaning and seemingly awaiting his approval or permission is a way of getting that?

dh would never in a million yrs acknowledge that he may have a problem, I'm the one on meds for depression, I'm the one thats had a shite life so everything is down to me if I'm feeling low

shinealight - it does sound like he takes advantage of your lack of self-belief. It is mean to bring loads of chocolate to someone who is trying to cut down. He does not sound like he has your best interests at heart.