Feeling so miserable

[YukoandHiro]

Together 17 years, married 7. 7yo and 4yo together.
I'm miserable. As he's got older he's moody, snappy, tired all the time. Shows me so little affection. Definitely doesn't pull his weight with the full mental load but isn't useless either. Good job, works hard, I earn less but only work 4 days.

I know you will all say leave but I don't want that. I want my old husband back. The fun, more chilled one. Basically, pre-kids. He's older and has found it more exhausting. I've also found it more anxiety provoking than I expected and he gets fed up with my anxiety.

I've suggested joint therapy but he's not interested. He says a lot of my concerns are fiction - I've worked out that's because I'm expressing how things feels/come across rather than the actual act that I've been upset by.

I do not want to break up my family or lose 50 per cent of my children's lives. I meant my vows when I married. I'm going to seek solo therapy to help work through my issues. But I can't feel this uncherished for the rest of my life.

I don't know what to do. I'm just so sad. I feel like if we go on like this I'm going to burnout or just shut down and become totally impassive.

I don't really have a question... this is just a brain dump. Christmas is such a hard time. I always feel I'm judging our relationship against my parents who are still tight after 50 years.

Should also add that we simply can't afford to separate at the moment so it's all academic really

Maybe he would be open to couples counselling after you’ve done say six months of solo counselling? He needs to show willingness to be part of the marriage, you can’t fix it on your own.

Opting out of joint therapy when you're so unhappy isn't really acceptable. Show him this post I guess?

And remember two things:

1. You can't change anybody else, you can only change yourself.

1. Separation is always an option. If he was cheating on you, or beating you up, you'd find a way to make it happen then wouldn't you?

That's exactly what I've said to him: things aren't good but I can't fix it alone. He doesn't agree they're bad. Maybe they're not for him. But the way he speaks to me (and tbh sometimes the way I speak back) IS a problem. We are not being kind to one another.

That is true re DV but that's a safety issue. I'm not sure I would immediately leave over an affair actually. I really believe that marriage is for life and that we should always work on things. But I'm struggling to reconcile that with how lonely I often feel.

I'm also probably in perimenopause which may be affecting how I react to things/my mood.

Well if he doesn't acknowledge there's any problem with him or his behaviour, nothing is going to change is it? You can only change how you react to the situation.

Have you properly looked into what you'd be entitled to if you split?
What makes you think he would actually have the kids 50/50, given he doesn't actually pull his weight at the moment?
Could you start working 5 days to build up a bit of a savings buffer to be able to leave?

I'll be working 5 days from September when youngest is in school. I have a separate savings account. I still love him, just not this version of him. I have no interest in separating to find a better relationship. If this doesn't last I have absolutely no intention of dating again. I'd rather be alone and in full control of my space/time. It's so frustrating that he won't even accept there's an issue. Maybe there really isn't for him? How can he be happy living like this?

This version of him is who he is though. Sounds like you're staying in hope that he will be the man you thought he was... but he isn't that man.

Wow, okay. I value my vows as much as the next person but that does not extend to tolerating cheating, fuck that!

All the best to you.

Hi op. I’ve been married for over thirty years and can relate to some of what you are saying. What I am about to suggest may not be appropriate for your individual relationship with your dh, so feel free to ignore, just bringing a different perspective.

I just wanted to make a general point without undermining or invalidating your misery, which is that long-term married couples are together for longer than they have ever been in history. And I think, the way our society has evolved, that there is a lot of pressure on the two main players.

Marriage is about love, financial support, parenthood but we also want each other to
be our main source of entertainment, emotional support, inspiration, relaxation and so on and it’s not realistic.

I don’t agree with everything she says but Esther Perel is good on this subject:
https://www.estherperel.com/blog/when-are-you-drawn-to-your-partner-in-long-term-relationships

I have found it helpful to work on my own happiness separately to my dh and then bring that back in to the relationship. There’s one of two ways that can go; your husband steps up to “meet you” or you go your separate ways.

I know couples who have split and they go on separately to lose weight, take up new hobbies and travel etc, and I often think, why can’t you do that when together? In effect, they have thrown the baby out with the bath water.

Could you start by doing something different with your dh op? Book a spontaneous holiday? Go away together on a trip to a part of the world you have never visited before? Take part in a physical challenge or a creative project?

Of course if your dh is too entrenched in his own behaviours and can’t see an issue, then you may be bashing your head against a brick wall. But maybe worth a try?

I think , speaking very generally, that men respond better when given freedom to pursue or not pursue. And they don’t often respond well when pursued. It’s exhausting chasing bread crumbs of affection anyway, so I tend to think that a better strategy is to take initiatives, don’t consult or ask permission, just go and make yourself happy and arrange your life differently to make yourself happy and see if he steps up and responds?

Thank you @Cranberryandsage66 - you've given me a lot to think about
Due to him being a shift worker we already live pretty separate lives during the week. I feel I should be available to him at the times he is actually around - but tbh he's not making himself available to me, or to the children eg when he lays in bed late "recovering from the week"
I'm going to seek therapy and just get on with my life and see what happens. He needs to meet me somewhere otherwise we'll just end up house sharing - which I know is comforting for some but not really how I view a life partnership.

Oh that’s not good about him lying in bed. It’s fine to have a lie-in every so often but when you are raising dc together, it’s disrespectful to just isolate yourself without consulting your other half. Shift work is exhausting though but maybe you could come up with an agreed plan for who gets to rest when, so it’s not so one-sided and you don’t constantly feel abandoned?

I agree that he needs to meet you half way.

@YukoandHiro : I really believe that marriage is for life and that we should always work on things.

Yes, but HE'S not working on anything - all the effort and desire for improvement is coming from your side.

Give it five years. You'll be totally ground down by then and ultimately possibly wondering why you've wasted your life on this bloke if he isn't willing to meet you half way. Good luck.

When your youngest is in school and you are working 5 days can changes be made to his employment so that he is not so knackered?

Could he cut his hours? Stop doing overtime? Get off shifts/nights by changing job?

I would say if he works hard in shift work e.g. 5 nights a week the tiredness will make it very hard for him to be the energetic caring partner that you are looking for.

This is my problem. I don't know why he can't see that things are so much worse than they used to be.
Thank you for your comment anyway.

Possibly... it's not all night every night but the pattern means that it is genuinely exhausting. But I feel I'm more than understanding about that. And now in hindsight I feel like I've made too many allowances for it to the detriment of my own happiness and also the quality of our relationship.

Do you like reading? If you do, Why Women Talk and Men Walk or How to Improve Your Relationship without Talking about It is a relly good book. Written by a female-male team of family therapists so both perspectives given. He doesn't even need to know you are reading the book, you could start implementing changes on your own. Loving Against Odds by Rob Parsons is also a very good book.

Thank you - I will take a look at these

It’s really concerning that you are unhappy and he is dismissive of that. It sounds like he is gaslighting you

He's not gaslighting - that's when you make another person doubt they are of sound mind by questioning what they know. He disagrees our relationship is in a bad way. I insist it is for me. He says my concerns about him being distant/less affectionate and that the relationship has changed are without basis - and I believe he has no intention of having a negative impact on me, but is so insular he doesn't see it. But am completely clear with him that his tone of voice/grumpiness is unacceptable and that things have to change.
A lot of this is total shit, but it is not gaslighting. People need to stop throwing that very specific term around because it is a very clearly defined form of abuse.

This is fair - and I cut him so much slack for the impact of the work.

But surely not every shift worker is just behaving like an arse to their partner because of tiredness? That excuse only goes so far.

He won't want to change work as he's just had a v big (and well deserved) promotion that he's been working towards for a decade.

You have been courageous trying to talk with him and it can feel heart breaking and dismissive that rather than wanting to work with you to make things better, he is only comments that everything is good for him - do your feelings not matter? Is he very avoidant about talking about your relationship so this statement that he is fine was a brush off to avoid having a deeper talk? If not for you, can he not be made to understand it is not good for the children to see you speak unkindly to one another. Would he not agree to some couples therapy for their sake?
I think men often feel that going to therapy is an admittance of failure, rather than something positive. They are often total ostriches, sticking their heads in the sand about relationship issues. I also think as women we are often really guilty of just rolling over and facilitating a man's life and never asking that he consider our needs ( many men seem to think that "giving" us children and contributing to the family finances are above and beyond what is required).
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"' seems apt in your situation - you want to do all the best things to help improve your relationship but he just won't see it and you can't really give him an ultimatum as you won't follow through on splitting.
It's great you are going to therapy, perhaps you could work on how to set boundaries and write down how you think your relationship should be and how that can be achieved and try talking again when you have several hours alone but not getting brushed off. Also, think about how you could change to make life easier for you and what you could do to find fun elsewhere - at a dance class, or exercise group etc. Work on really enjoying your time with the children and cherishing and having fun with them.
Does he appreciate that both you and the children will recall only that he was a grumpy old sod

Funnily enough I followed the advice of someone on here yesterday and totally withdrew. Just got on with my day with the kids and didn't factor him into it, in just the way I've felt not factored into his life lately. And do you know what? He's been a totally different person today. So helpful, available and upbeat.
It's interesting. Am proceeding with caution.