My 20 year old 'Marriage'...grateful for any advice tia .....

[sussanna]

Just that really. Ive been in circles in my head as I dont know if I am the 'bad guy' in this as he says ? or neither of us are the 'good guy'?. For context , we both are professionals who earn well , have one 13 (soon to be 14) YO DC who goes to a nice private school and we have paid off

Part 1 2002 -2012
> was HEAD OVER HEELS at first sight when met him at age 22 - first real boyfriend apart from crushes etc. Turned down some very popular guys at my uni to focus on studies and graduate with honors from Ivy league etc. 'D'H was the only guy I fell for as soon as I met, whirwind courtship that i barely remember, think a lot of the heat was only in my head rather than actually between us looking back. Married in 2005.
> My mother passed on soon after we got married and quite suddenly, I was broken. I think he was there for me as much as he knew how (not much as it turned out). We lived close by his parents and he started going to theirs in the evenings rather than home . By 2006/07 he was hanging out with his new work friends including one or two women colleagues in the evenings and coming home quite late many nights.
> One day when he said he was going to lunch with a female colleague (but along with two other friends) I said why not take me too, if there is nothing going on between them (he had been name dropping her , and they took a class together after work along with few other work ppl). He slapped me aside and I actually almost fell to the Ground but he left for his lunch date without a backward glance. Reader, I stayed. I was too low after my mum passing and my health was fragile with all the crying.
> He said at one point say 2007 that I was 'depressing' at times and me complaining about him spending evenings at his parents some evenings a week was offensive and shocking and mean. I had a few tiffs with him and he said it was very hurtful to him that I was not getting along with two people he respected the most.
> We moved towns for work (much higher pay for me) in 2007 , he saw this as me getting my way but came along as the pay was doubled and he was happy about that, plus I did all the housework and cooking. He said to wait to have a kid.
> 2008 I found a text to his best friend on his phone where he said he missed the same female colleague ever since moving and that only some women can be 'banged' and forgotten and she wasnt one of them. I confronted him, he said the text was badly worded, he missed her as a friend, and if I really belived he was 'low enough to have an affair' I should leave. I called her up to ask her if they had had an affair (I was even dumber back then !!!) , and told him I called her later that evening, he was so upset that I had 'embarrassed' him with his ex work colleagues , he slapped me, the slap fell at an angle as I flinched away and it ended up tearing my lip and gave me a black eye and broken nose. Surely these things happened only in bad movies , I was in disbelief. He took me to get the wounds tended to at A&E and I told them I fell down the stairs, they didnt buy it but were too polite to cross question or insist.
> I felt I was to blame for calling her instead of leaving , at least half to blame. We moved cities further down south , and 'started afresh'. I thought no babies for 5 years of just making money was making the marriage boring for him so I said I couldnt wait anymore , conceived in the first month of trying and our DC born . Yes reader, I brought a child into this.
Part two - typing now.

Sorry you have had this experience @sussanna .
It sounds like you are a very high achieving family and this has been the main focus, but your emotional health matters too.
You can't be held hostage by this situation, it is too damaging.
Please book yourself in for some one to one counselling asap in the New Year.
It will give you some perspective, some much needed support, help you drop your sense of shame, break your isolation and help you plan a healthier future.
Meanwhile, the good women of Mumsnet are here.

OP there is so much wrong here but the bottom line is that your husband is abusive. Please leave. There is no saving this marriage, your husband is violent, has hit you and forces himself on you sexually. First step phone Womens Aid for support and advice.

Thank you for your reply, also @WinterCrow thanks - I love the kindness on mumsnet and the female comraderie and humor. I have lurked on here since 2010.

He has said it would be sadistic of me to live under same roof and withhold sex and I should leave the house. I dont want to leave the house that is half mine ? Unless my son comes with me. I am okay with half the week now, but H still says he cant be without son. Just three days moved to a hotel last year with no clear plan and my son missed his room and his neighbourhood friends (he even has a gf now) and I brought him back home and decided to wait till hes 18.

I have moved into the guest room AGAIN now. THis time so determined not to go back.Sometimes I give in to the gaslighting and the accusations (ARE YOU fucking around etc) to keep peace and then tell myself there are ppl dying in Ukraine (I think, I am that self involved sometimes in my own misery) - so I can bear this for a few mins but really peri menopause has made it even harder to not feel resentment against H. My whole married life is a joke.

Yes, I agree with pp regards Womens Aid. If the situation escalates you may need to leave soon. Keep any plans private from your husband for this reason.

Thank you yes, most of my friends - the conversation is all about how to get A grades in all subjects - how to increase ones income and savings - and yes some joking on having a fun girls night out without the husbands but honestly we dont talk about much more than the A grades , and the uni entrance exams and whatnot there as well. I read on here much more than I talk irl , and have gotten so much inspiration and cried and laughed along with the women on here going through difficult marriages talking about it openly

Your child doesn't sound socially well adjusted at all. He thinks his mother should be unhappy as punishment for having a male friend. He's putting his own convenience above your happiness. He's leant that from his dad. The example you've given him of a long term relationship is horrid. Imagine if he treats future gf/ wife the way your dh treats you.

the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. He targeted you deliberately to abuse.

Make the break in 2025 and certainly do not wait till your kids go to university at 18. That’s a further poor decision on your part if you do that. Seek help from Women’s Aid and get legal advice. He may well demand 50/50 or such because he thinks he can use the kids to control you. He will remain abusive after your divorce too.

thank you so much , this brought tears to my eyes , I will try counselling in the new year - I read a lot of CBT , and I have read a number of books on narcs and codependency to them (although I am not sure either one of us in the marriage are emotionally intelligent people , I am at least trying to be more self aware!)

Oh yiu poor thing the emotional physical and sexual abuse that comes through

speak to women’s aid stay in the guest room and don’t leave the house and don’t have sex with him (out a lock on the guest room door)

200pc agree with this - I did what I thought was best for a 4 year old by staying and I was so ashamed I had liked someone outside the marriage (I still feel physically attracted to men outside the marriage sometimes, and it can be hard to tamp it down - luckily at 45, there is so much less proactive interested looks from men compared to 20s and 30s but on the other hand perimenopause is so confusing as there is more interest to be single than there ever was in 20s and 30s !! I really will look at counselling for myself in 2025.

@AttilaTheMeerkat @Seaoftroubles @Villagetoraiseachild and those who said contact womens aid.

I can afford a rental if I want to move out asap - so I am guessing the aid would be to get him to move out if I didnt want to be the one to leave , we both own the house ? or is it to have them there if he stops me taking my son when I leave ? its both our son and my son is almost as tall as his dad now - i mean in reality, he will brainwash him rather than force him to stay by saying something like ' DS, if you leave now, it means you have chosen your mum, I dont know if you will be welcome here again' or some nonsense that would confuse my son.

I just feel it would be better for my son at 18 - has anyone recently done this waiting till 18 and do you have regrets ? I had a colleague at work say long ago that her catholic parents did that and she would not recommend it to anyone

Defo womens aid. You can't stay with that gaslighting bastard.

If your child understood he'd punched you in the face and broken your nose and was taking you twice a week he'd not want you to stay either. I don't mean you should tell him by the way. I just mean he doesn't understand and selfishly wants to retain the status quo. Like any child would. You can't. You deserve better.

Get your ducks in a row (ie get hold of financial information you may need before he starts hiding money and assets. And get down for the help you need from womens aid.

Nobody needs to suffer. You deserve a better life.

need to do the lock thing - I asked my son if I could sleep on the floor in his room with him and of course my teenager looked horrified and said no. THis will be the fifth night in the guest-room and 13 months to 16th birthday and then two more years to 18th.

thank you for your kindness @DeliciousApples and also @Tiswa

he knows there was violence, he has been told by his dad that I liked someone else in 2013 - pretty sure though he loves both of us, he doesnt particularly like either of us or at least these behaviours - it hurts me that he has put both on par, especially since one preceeded the other by a good 8 years - I am too exhausted sometimes even to defend myself in my own head. DS loves me though and tells me about everything going on his life and we are very close. its just this one issue that he doesnt really take sides (although hates when his father is overly strict about the A grades and other such things)

He doesnt know about the taking twice a week that was happening (i have moved now to guest room , not for the first time tho, but hopefully permanently) - he and his friends, none of them seem to want to believe their parents' generation have sex anymore so I cant have that conversation with him , and just too much information for him , doesnt seem fair.
My advice to any younger women reading this - leave in your 30s before the kids become teens , its actually easier then, dont throw your best years away llike I did

Waiting for the kids to go off to college and then divorcing may make the kids feel guilty that their parents sacrificed their own happiness for them. Do not do this to yourself or your kids, make the break sooner rather then when he’s 18.

Please talk to Womens Aid, or email them, this is no way to live.
Your son doesn't have a say in this. But the sooner you jump, the better for his education.
Short term you could put a door wedge under the door of the spare bedroom.
Oh, and coerced sex is rape.
Please save yourself. You deserve peace.

@RabbitsEatPancakes , thank you so much for calling what happened in 2013 as having a male friend. The number of times I have said 'it wasnt an affair !!!' and H says ' it doesnt have to be full blown sex to qualify as an affair, you were a sl** for liking someone else' . I would try to be funny and say its not dissimilar to Ross and Rachel 'we were on a break' except that neither of them gave the other a black eye - disgusting that I have asked myself tis so many times but violence is way worse than liking someone outside and being honest about it !! My life feels like such an utter failure sometimes.

@AttilaTheMeerkat and others, thank you so much for your kindness taking time on Xmas eve - going to church tomorrow with son as he follows the christian faith since 2022 and I support that fully - and will be praying hard for God to do something since clearly I lack real courage and end of the day am a coward.

Is there anyone reading on mumsnet, who was in an unhappy marriage and liked someone else/ wanted to leave for someone else - and how they handled aftermath guilt - most cases its the guy and I am one of those agreeing with the others that hes been a 'dick'. :(

Leave for yourself Sussanna. Rebuild yourself, retain the moral high ground, learn to love yourself. You're clearly a capable career woman. These pricks love breaking a successful woman.

thank you yes the door wedge idea is so good , will do that !!

I just need to be clearer on what help I want from womens aid - I have money in my account to move out into a rental and he has never used physical force against my son , so he couldnt stop him leaving with me or to be with me 50/50 - the only reason I guess I am not going is my own guilt and shame and self loathing - and fear that my son will hate me for not staying under the same roof as his dad. wow thank you all so much, writing all this down - just so starkly clearer than before what I am scared of and how much of a coward I am

Yes he hates that I make as much money as he does like an ego dent, so he now works saturdays too to have the higher income and then says because of that I do most of the cooking and all the cleaning and then loves to say the cooked food is quite unpalatable (less spice, too much spice, no salt, too salty !). Plus I have to serve him hand and foot sometimes when he is working saturdays too. Then he says well other husbands treat their wives well because they werent whores who strayed (doesnt say these words in front of my son but we are both mostly wfh since the pandemic aargh)

@Shouldbedoing , he also added himself to my bank account years ago as joint account holder - and now he makes sure the mortgage, utulities, CT, and private school fees all go from my account , so my balance is quite low every month and I can hardly plan escape getaways at short notice - his pile keeps growing, as he hardly spends and his income is currently more than mine with working corporate job plus a weekend business (we never have fun, fun isnt allowed, like restaurants and holidays - all about more money). He used to use it at the end of the year to prepay mortgage but lately hes been sending some overseas as well - I honestly would believe he has someone on the side, if I didnt feel falling in love would be something too naive of him , although I have seen him get played by at least one woman 'friend' even more narc than him to whom he did donate a lot of the familial money and resources (I had to cook for her whole family when she just had a cold etc). My life hysterical laughter

He’s a creep. Mean. Leave him. Just leave.

You've just described financial abuse to add to the emotional abuse, sexual abuse and violence. You could arrange for your salary to go into a newly opened bank account in your name and be ready to leave by payday. But you need the help of experts.

Hits you / rapes you/ threatens you / cheats on you - FFS sake leave now whilst you are still
young enough to have a life.

His salary goes to a separate account, so all that would happen if I took mine to a separate account is that the mortgage on this 5 bed (pandemic decision to have home offices and I thought we would both be paying) and the private school fees (I thought we would both be paying monthly, instead he transfer some money when he feels like it , as a big favour) would default as neither of our salaries would be in the account - I still have to pay the bills as they currently stand ......

What a life I weaved, so many poor choices

thank you - no evidence of cheating - just spoils female friendships by charming them till their head is turned ( he is very good looking , all races women seem to find him charming and all ages too , he can be extrmely smooth and no one would guess- for a long time my parent and my siblings believed jhim when he said I was the one who wanted to wait 5 years after marriage to try having a baby . No I wasnt. ) - I think he fantasies about them and then uses my body for sex , nice and easy , everyone's favourite good citizen when it comes to no affairs. He likes to see them then disrespect me and become closer to him, lately after we got into 40s and now mid 40s he finds it harder to pull it off as much, and my female friends also in their 40s dont fall for it any more.