I don't know what's going on

[Lucy Long Socks]

Im so confused.
Recently my husband said he was out with the men. But I came to learn another woman had been there. I was confused as he specifically said just men. BTW this woman has joined the men lots of times before. I know her and its fine. So I ask him calmly why he specifically said men only. I said I was confused. He absolutely flew off the handle!. Shouting and swearing. Accused me of being controlling, jealous and having a trust issues. Then started saying maybe I was cheating because I have accused him. (I never said he was cheating) he went on saying many hurtful accusatory things to me. Im left in shock as to what he thinks about me.
Turns out in the end, it was crossed wires and he didn't on purpose mean she wasn't going and I 100% believe him. But I cant get over the accusations towards me.

Then started saying maybe I was cheating because I have accused him. (I never said he was cheating)

That would set off massive alarm bells. Quite an over reaction - classic sign of a guilty conscience

Turns out in the end, it was crossed wires and he didn't on purpose mean she wasn't going and I 100% believe him

Sounds like he's gaslighting you. He said quite categorically she wasn't going, now it's a misunderstanding and that wasn't what he meant.

Usually they fly off the handle like that when they ARE cheating. And the same goes for accusing you of cheating. When it's something they are doing.

I'm assuming you don't have form for accusing him of anything?

Has he form for nasty behaviour like this in the past?

You're right. It has set off alarm bells. I don't know why he said that. I've never ever accused him of cheating.

But the crossed wires thing is true 100%. No gaslighting at all.

Mm interesting reaction. Keep your antennae up …

That’s a huge over reaction, swearing, shouting and then to turn it on to you like you’ve got trust issues and cheating! That’s him gaslighting you because you dared query something and for you to back off with your tail between your legs.
That’s to me indicates a guilty conscience because if it was simply crossed wires he would have just said he forgot to mention she was going.
You want to believe him but alarm bells are going off.

No. I have never accused him of cheating. Ever.

Form. No. Very calm, even in arguments. But the last year or two he has sworn and shouted at me in our last 3 arguments.

So he more implied I could have cheated. He said something along the lines of " you accuse me of cheating (I have never uttered those words) but you could be up to anything on your girl's nights outs

It is. Im worried.

I cant explain the full story on here. But the fact she was going was 100% crossed wires. Like I said. She's out with them all 90% of the time. Been going on a few years. I could and I have turned up myself many times. Part way through the argument we realised it was crossed wires and he just carried on being horrible. Even though I said look I/we got it wrong - and you can see how I got it wrong, so why are you still being horrible. His answer was. Because you don't trust me.

As pps have said, keep watch on this.

Watch his behaviour with his phone. Look out for red flags of cheating. Such as suddenly taking his phone everywhere, texting late at night, placing his phone face down. Then things like changes in his routine, working longer hours, 'work trips', going to a gym more etc...

I'd also be having a chat with him about how his outburst wasn't on the other day.

But don't let him think you think he's cheating. Just jerp watch.

But I dont think he's cheating. Im more worried about his outburst. He hasn't changed anything. His phone behaviour is normal. He works coincidentally in the same building as me and I can pop in anytime. We have a home gym. Nothing has changed. We were getting on great before this. Our last row was 6 months ago.

But as your subject line says, something is going on. Trust your gut.

Im scared to talk about his outburst. I dont want to have another argument. Especially this close to Christmas. My parents and sister + partner are staying over, as well as my children.
When we argued I was so distressed that I had a panic attack. I couldn't breathe and that is what ended the row. He hugged me and said it got out of hand.

My gut is just saying confusion right now.

He wouldn't react this way if he didn't have something to hide his reaction was very strange

Everything aside, the way he is shouting at you and whatever the horrible things are he is saying to you are deal breakers aren’t they? Why do you stay? Do you want to stay? Do the kids witness this?

I'd be wondering if he has a crush on this woman even if he's not actually cheated. If you both know her and it's completely platonic, there's no reason for him to be cagey and aggressive about her being there. It sounds like he's deliberately starting a row so you don't want to ask too many questions about who he's out with in the future.

Being so distressed that you had a panic attack indicates your intuition is telling you something is off.
Also OP, I’d be more concerned about the verbal abuse than him sneaking off with some woman. Who the fuck does he think he is speaking to the mother of his children like that?

This!

Well this was a very ott reaction.

And it is strange that he jumped straight to the subject of cheating.

There must be some reason. Cheating must have been on his mind. It might not necessarily be this specific woman that he has an interest in: if he is out with a group of men friends on a regular basis that gives him scope to be doing something that has caused his temper outburts .

Also if you are too worried to even discuss his temper outburst with him he has successfully stopped you questioning his behaviour in the future.

You shouldn't have to live a life treading on eggshells incase you spark another extreme reaction.

Something to hide or a massive chip on his shoulder when he feels I dont trust him. Or something else.

No. Shouting is not a deal breaker. The things he said, I'm assuming as he said, he got mad because he thought I didn't trust him. He said I made him angry that he has to list every single person who is going out. He said that's controlling behaviour. He shouldn't have to do that.
I stay because it's normal to argue. If the whole country got divorced after an argument, there'd be nobody left married. We dont argue a lot. We normally get on great.
No the kids have never seen us argue because we rarely do.

Honestly what was the point of posting, then? Everything's fine, he's not in the wrong, you're not bothered, blah blah blah.

You said-
‘So I ask him calmly why he specifically said men only. I said I was confused. He absolutely flew off the handle!. Shouting and swearing. Accused me of being controlling, jealous and having a trust issues. Then started saying maybe I was cheating because I have accused him. (I never said he was cheating) he went on saying many hurtful accusatory things to me. Im left in shock as to what he thinks about me.’
Then you said you had a panic attack- doesn’t sound like a normal row to me. Sounds abusive and gaslighting.

He has anger issues and it was only because you had a panic attack that he ended the argument. He intimidated you and turned your question onto you having trust issues. He was gaslighting you so you never dare question him again.
Had he mentioned after a night out that one of his mates had brought along his wife/gf, you might of said to him “ you never mentioned Carol was going” and because it was no big deal he would of said “I didn’t know she’d be there” or “I must of forgot to mention it.” He might of said “ I knew she was going but I knew had I told you that you might’ve wanted to go and I just wanted to go on my own.” It wouldn’t have turned into him swearing and shouting at you.
The red flag is his reaction!
Has there been a death in the family?
Money problems?
What has changed in the last year or two that instead of being calm when you argue he blows up?
Does it coincide with the woman going out with them on nights out?

This is not a normal row if he's usually a calm person. His accusations came from nowhere, so a massive over reaction which could well be deflection due to a guilty conscience. You are rushing to defend him when pps have pointed out that this should be setting off alarm bells for you. It doesn't look good OP and you'd be wise to acknowledge that something has triggered this. You had a a panic attack due to his verbally aggressive behaviour, and that's not acceptable.

That is definitely an OTT reaction to a simple misunderstanding.
No wonder you are wondering whats going on.
It doesn't mean he is cheating of course, but if you'd never accused him of antyhing like that, its a bit odd that that is where his brain jumped to.
And then to accuse you of cheating on your girls nights out. Thats just odd.
Could it be that he has perhaps participated in a bit of flirting and so thats where his brain is going?
This woman that 90% of the time joins their nights out, is she a partner of one of the other men, or a friend etc?

I think i'd be on high alert after the conclusion that jumped into his head. There may be some flirting going on with her? Theres definitely something amiss.
Because a normal reaction would be something like, 'oh yeah, claire was there aswell, sorry I forgot to mention her because shes just normally there and like one of the lads'. Not, 'don't accuse me of cheating, are you cheating?, you're controlling, have trust issues etc etc'.

Sounds a bit like he is ensuring you never ask him again to be honest.