Has anyone else just given up....

[AlwaysRight1985]

...on dating?

Up until a couple of years ago, I never found it an issue, I'd go on dates sporadically but usually there was no spark or we wanted different things (I can't have kids). Last relationship ended 3 years ago due to him cheating. I took some time off to work on myself including therapy for DV and SA survivors. Now I'm finally ready to get back out there... but...

When did men regress? Like seriously? It seems like every man who's single is either

a) a blatant misogynist
b) a Trump/Farage supporter
c) a massive Covid conspiracy theorist
d) all of the above

I see so many comments/posts on social media that just seem to hate women full stop. Look at the support that people have still for Andrew Tate, and for Conor McGregor (women as well). That's the issue I most despair about. It's not even just online or always extreme as well, but it seems to have a way of coming out. Apparently all us women are only good for one thing and we're just after their money most of the time!

Real life example - met a guy recently (made a post about it in fact) at a sports club (family plays, I don't). Seemed nice, agreed to go out this weekend... since talking it turns out that

a) He just wants someone to 'look after' him (yes he means cook and clean)
b) He wants sex on demand (hello - I'm menopausal with debilitating endo)
c) He already had plans on the night we were meant to go out.

Like seriously!? I don't think I'm asking for a lot, just someone who brings the same to the table that I do. I'm 39, good job, own home, well-educated, but most of all I think I'm kind and caring and loyal and I know I have a lot of love to give. But I think it might be time to just give up on finding someone - I'm not even after marriage, kids, etc. just a partner to spend time doing stuff with - and be just me with alllll the cats and allll the books (sounds more appealing right now!). I am also autistic but this doesn't cause me too many problems and I've had relationships/dates up to now...

Sorry it's long, just a little vent from me :)

Yeh I guess in a way I'm being funny but I'm 20 and it's sometimes so nice to be so obviously "better" than a d|ck.

I wouldn't say I've given up, but I am happy to say "Nope!" at the first irritant, whereas when I was younger I was more amenable. But I think it is different when you are 50 and already have children, own a home, have a solid career and good social networks. A relationship would be a nice add-on but only to the extent that it suits me.

But I think if you are going out dating, you have to be realistic about whether what you want meshes with what men are looking for. They want sex. If you are menopausal and not very keen, that will be a problem. You want companionship, but that is something men trade (often reluctantly) for sex. Without the sex, or even with it, they are not looking for cosy evenings in with cats and books. That is the price they pay for sex, not the reward.

There are lots of men who are smart, funny, not keen on Trump, and not expecting to be looked after, or come around for a booty call after a night out with their friends. But there probably aren't that many men who would choose evenings in with a menopausal 39 year old who finds sex painful due to endometriosis, when they have lots of other options. They don't care about your job, your house, your caring nature and loyalty on a first date - they care whether you are sexually attractive and whether you find them sexually attractive, and how soon they can cash in on that.

@ShouldIEvenBother Your list made me chuckle but it is so right. After my divorce I hoped I’d meet someone but I didn’t. I’m fine with that now and enjoying my life. I do get lonely but that’s just a passing feeling. I don’t need or want a man. What I am enjoying is finding me again after all the years of been in an abusive marriage. Freedom is priceless.

Wow. What a way to kick me when I'm down. I haven't had sex for 18 months, yes I'm menopausal but I don't think my drive has gone away entirely, and I'm more than willing to try and find out! Yes sex can be painful due to my endometriosis but it isn't all of the time and it mostly only makes certain positions more uncomfortable. My ex cheated on me because I couldn't do what he wanted every time in bed (despite me never saying no to him)

I wasn't aiming to kick you while you're down, just suggesting you think seriously about the barriers to finding the type of relationship you are looking for. I don't think you will find it on Tinder for instance.

You can save a lot of time, effort and emotional investment by looking at why the men you meet are disappointing you so much. It is because you are looking for totally different things.

Well that's really not how your response came across. According to you the barriers to finding the type of relationship I'm looking for are the fact that I'm going through premature menopause and have a debilitating medical condition. So he could be Mr totally perfect in my eyes but he clearly won't want me.

I'm not looking anymore. Anywhere. I'm done. I'm clearly just a dried up old hag who nobody would ever find attractive so yeah, I give up.

In all honesty, you are probably right to put it off until you are in better shape to cope with it.

Most definitely. I'm 44 and quite frankly can't be bothered any more. I know there are decent ones out there but it's like panning for gold and some of them seem more hassle than they're worth to be honest. If you're going to make my life more difficult, I'd rather just not bother.

I haven't given up but I've lowered my expectations of finding a boyfriend again.

I don't want to lower my standards for the sake of a relationship - I am 95% happy with my life as it is - but it would be nice to have a life companion.

I think a big problem is dating apps. These days, they don't really work for anyone. It's very well known that on pretty much every dating app, the number of men greatly exceeds the number of women on them - and most men receive very little interest on them, in terms of likes/matches etc.

Yet on the flip side, lots of women have terrible experiences on dating apps, and are therefore more reluctant to give people chances.

I saw a stat recently that 60% of young men aren't in a relationship. I think it's this that has contributed to a feeling of frustration/disillusionment among many men, and, in some cases, a sense of anger from the commonly held belief that it's much easier for women to meet people than it is for them - even if it's not strictly true.

These days, an increasing number of young men grow up feeling/being told that they're not good enough. The likes of Tate etc perpetuate this message that if you're not some six foot Adonis with abs capable of cutting glass that your chance of meeting a life partner are very slim. And so it leads to things like 'looks maxing' and men thinking they have to have an 'Alpha' mentality or whatever. It's a shame that people with large followings are basically praying on people's vulnerabilities.

Well @TheYearOfSmallThings thanks for that cool and clear sighted assessment!

Apparently all us women are only good for one thing and we're just after their money most of the time!

This sort of man always ends up moving with the woman, living rent-free and expecting her to pay for the food, cook the food and clean up the house, because he works hard and pays half the bills (funny how the bills never include food).

Did NOT strangle me during sex, having had NO prior discussion around what our bedroom tastes and boundaries are

Fucking hell, how low has our bar got to be?

'When did men regress? Like seriously?'

Yep, unfortunately, this is what's happening. Many men are regressing into porn-addled, misogynist wastes of time. (And much worse.)

I've lost hope of meeting anyone decent - the amount of dross to wade through to find that person is just... well, no. I don't want to do it.

I've tried OD for 20 years, off and on, and have seen a steady and huge decline in the behaviour and quality of men in that time.

There are some good men still but not nearly enough to go round all the good women.

I've tried OD for 20 years, off and on, and have seen a steady and huge decline in the behaviour and quality of men in that time.

I'm not saying there hasn't been a decline in the dating behaviour of men, but I also think you have to take into account the fact that 20 years ago you were 20 years younger, men were willing to work harder to get you, and also more "good" men your age were still in the dating pool. If you had first tried online dating 20 years ago but at your current age, the quality of response you received would have been much poorer even then.

This is definitely true. I notice a difference between when I was 31 (the last time I was single and on OLD) and now at 35!

The good men are mostly snapped up in their 20s and early 30s. That or men don't adjust their age requirement as they get older and any decent, single 30somethings are still chasing women in their 20s.

I think I need to try to lift spirits a bit, as while things are bad out there, people can and do still meet each other. Maybe a lot of this is luck and the right time and place, so maybe it’s just about getting out more and meeting more people in real life. Easier said than done I know, but given the challenges online, I feel this may be the best way of finding a genuine connection with someone you know you feel a real life attraction to…

I’m done. I’ve just spent 4 years with a guy I met online who was a 50/50 dad but who said his ex wife was “flexible” around childcare. Turns out she wasn’t, she was a globe trotting Judith Chalmers with her new partner who fobbed her kids off every chance she got. When I asked if he could clear it with her that we could have the odd weekend away I couldn’t see him for dust. Turns out he just didn’t even love me, never had, and didn’t see any kind of future with me.

That kind of revelation does something to your self esteem. Don’t worry, I’ll build it back up, but I’m not letting a man in to my life again.

I don’t think @TheYearOfSmallThings meant it like that.

Most men are looking for sex and a relationship is the price they pay for that initially. For them, the feelings and cozy nights at home come later. Very few men would want to start a relationship where sex is scarce. If you are looking for a relationship but not showing much sexual interest, then there is a mismatch in expectations.

I guess what I’m saying is that you want a relationship more than you want sex. Men want sex more than they want a relationship (no matter what they say). You need to find someone on your wavelength or meet in the middle. Not easy I know!

I am also done. Just ended my 2nd marriage at 47 after 7 years together. I found him on a dating website 2 years ago and after a 6 month separation got back with him which was a mistake. Both my DC are at Uni so it is just me and the cat. My lovely Mum says the ex robs me of my peace and he has, no more though I am embracing the single life. Luckily I still had my own house and am financially secure.

I'm about the same age as you and being single for almost 4 years.

After swiping possibly hundreds of times on Hinge, I concluded that I either can't figure out if I'm physically attracted to someone based on photos alone, or I'm actually not attracted to most British men, or the ones I see on apps at least. Maybe both.

And then all the rest - which I how unattractive I was to most profiles and how men like to present themselves. So many unflattering upward shots, greasy bathroom selfies, sweaty gym bro selfies, and photos of men flashing their wealth (if it's even real), the weird things on profiles, the occasional closeted or deceitful gay man who just wants a baby making machine, in all likelyhood.

I thought about all the horrific stories out there from women who've been abused or stalked (and the stats that show this is more likely through app dates), the amount of men that are looking to cheat on there, and I just thought, I don't think it's worth it. It would be nice to meet a lovely man who I want to actually have children with, but they likelyood of that happening is very low.

I agree with you on @NPET post. Fuck that. So many men are used to being babied & coddled by their mothers, and then expect their poor partner to do it once they have a girlfriend or wife. Unless they are genuinely of low intelligence, they're perfectly capable of making decisions and taking on the mental load - they just don't want to.

They're used to sitting on the backseat of the relationship, putting their feet up whilst the woman does the low-status, boring admin work, and used to getting away with it through strategic, incompetence.

Look, the internet is not real life. It’s not representative of what the average man thinks. Content that gets amplified online is extreme views, because that’s what gets eyeballs.

None of the men I know and have in my life are like this. Obviously everyone had the odd unpopular opinion about something, but men that I choose to keep around are against racism, misogyny, inequality and all the other things that men on the internet seem to love.

Talk to real people. Almost every male aged 14+ thinks Tate is a wanker. Granted, there are exceptions and I’ve met a couple of them through dating - unsurprisingly we’ve chosen not to date.

If the internet was to be believed, what women want is either a ‘provider’ or ‘high value male’, or would rather stay in a forest with a bear than a man, or something like that.

Get off the internet and back into real people in real life and you may be pleasantly surprised. Not every person is horrible and evil.

Having said that, bringing a lot to the table and wanting it matched is a tough ask. I’m in the same position myself but I don’t necessarily want it matched, I just want someone kind and lovely. However even that comes with it’s own set of problems.

I’m not sure you need to purposefully date lots of men if you’re not on a deadline, just live your life and let it happen. But also let go of perfection - everyone will have their pros and cons, eg poor planning skills. As long as the person makes you feel at ease and excited, maybe get to know them a little bit before writing them off.

Think back to the guys you dated when younger - were any of them absolutely perfect? No probably not, and I understand you want to make better choices now, as do I. But people are people, human kind hasn’t improved hugely since you first started dating, your standards have probably just improved a lot. I believe that there’s a balance somewhere between bringing everything to the table and not being a good match.

Also, I have seen posts where a poster deliberately kicks a woman when she's down, but I don't think that is what @TheYearOfSmallThings was doing.

She (I presume), was just extremely honest in what she thinks men, or most men want, which definitely leans on the more cynical side of life, although she may argue she's just being a realist. I do think though that there is a good portion of men out there who are looking for companionship and cosy nights, especially once they get to their 30s, but this won't necessarily outweigh the importance they place on sexual attraction in the same way as it might work for women.

It can hurt to hear someone dissect your situation and lay out their assessment so bluntly, but it is good to take into account the fact that what you value about yourself isn't necessarily what men will value about you. It's depressing, but true. Many men see a financially stable, independent, intelligent woman as a nice add-on, something pleasant and admirable....but not the main, valuable they're looking for, sadly. In the most extreme cases, women find this out the hard way, when they get ill or need support, when they gain wait.

Their male partners can then sometimes get quite unpleasant. Not being as loving, not being as affectionate, sulking or being silent more.

It's because, unbeknownst to the woman, she has broken important terms & conditions she never knew she signed-up to, and that is to be sexually attractive, always slim, sexually available, not be too much or a burden on him, and sometimes not to really age visibly either.

I think @TheYearOfSmallThings was bang on the money. And it’s a reflection on men, not on the OP.

a) He just wants someone to 'look after' him (yes he means cook and clean)
b) He wants sex on demand (hello - I'm menopausal with debilitating endo)
c) He already had plans on the night we were meant to go out.

I’m curious about how you managed to find all of this out before you’ve even been on a date?

Are you giving people enough of a chance?

I’ve found some lovely men online. Not all of them are for me (chemistry) but I don’t relate to your experience at all.