The Alpha Course and homophobia

[user1469485133]

Hi,

My friend has just started going to The Alpha Course and asked if I wanted to go along one Sunday. She's Romanian and was raised in religion but basically broke away.
I'm openly lesbian and not religious, and have read about Alpha. What I've read has left me not feeling good towards the general jist of the course.
To be honest, I'm worried about her and am concerned that our relationship/friendship will change. As far as I can see, The Alpha Course is homophobic.
It's possible that my friend has explored the idea of being attracted to women, although she dates men.

I'd like to know others experience of this - especially those in the LGBT arena.

Thanks!

At HTB, the mothership of Alpha, they specified which sexual behaviours were a sin. Any outside of a marriage of a woman and a man. It was very clear. That was the watershed when some people never came back, I think it was week 3, the talk was about sin.
Maybe It has been modernised since? I doubt it with Nicky Gumbell still in charge.
Perhaps when other churches do the course they are not so explicit?

@nappysan I don’t really understand how the Church of England has such varying doctrine and practices

It comes from Elizabeth The First's attempts to stop protestants and catholics from burning eachother as happened during the reigns of her father and predecessor siblings.

The principle is that within the church of england there is no requirement to all believe the same things except for the absolute basics summed up in the Creed:
That God consists of 3 persons
The creator of the world.
The redeemer who incarnated as a genuine human who was fully God and fully Man and who actually properly died and then was actually bodily resurrected, and that process created a route out of Sin for the rest of us.
The Holy Spirit who dwells in us and in the world around us.

Absolutely everything else is down to individual conscience as far as the central CofE is concerned although individual churches will have a narrower cross section. The reason for this is that it is far more important for us to be united in general and not at each others throats trying to work out who is right.

So whether the point of disagreement is whether the bread of communion transubstatiates into the flesh of jesus or remains bread, or exactly whether this or that is a sin is supposed to not be a point of division is a fundamental principle of being in the church of england.

Which does annoyingly require that those of us who are liberal and inclusive aren't allowed to call out homophobes as being bigotted cunts. We all have our crosses to bear.

John Henry Newman has a lot to answer for regarding transubstantiation.

As PP have said, Alpha does not necessarily have any discussion of sexuality (mine didn’t) but it tends to be run by more conservative churches who may add in a discussion of that issue, or it may come up naturally.

I wouldn’t be worried. In my experience it’s pretty rare for adults to change their views on sexuality, no matter what courses they go on. I know plenty of people within conservative Alpha-teaching churches who hold liberal views which conflict with the “official” church line. Some of them probably lead Alpha courses.

I'm a lesbian and a practising Christian. I did the Alpha course a long time ago and it put me off attending church for years. It may have changed since; I did it when it was first launched. Although I found it very difficult at the time it did challenge me to look at the theology they promoted in order to assess exactly what it was I disagreed with and why, and whether I could sustain my views having heard theirs.

I wouldn't discount going along - what's the worst that happens, you hear some things you disagree with - but I would go in with low expectations for anything other than the potato salad.

I've done the alpha course and from memory it doesn't / didn't mention sexuality at all .
As a side note , I'm still not religious !

Thanks for your view on this :) I wonder if the course has changed or adapted in any way, since the 'noughties' (2006, say?).

I do like a good potato salad actually

If pp is right you might get 1.5 digestive biscuits as well! 🤣

That's horrific.

There’s bugger all in the bible about homosexuality, ill never understand why some Christians decide this is the hill they’ll die on.

@nappysan in some ways I wish I was not such a questioning person and could just have accepted it all.

It makes it harder to be a questioning person but the wisest writer I read, who was a truly good man with pragmatism and without sentimentality, said that a true questioner is far closer to God than someone who deliberately closes her mind to the questions.

If you squash the questions away, there's a lack of intellectual integrity somewhere. Once a question occurs, you can't un-think it. Does make things a bit more tricky though!

Personally I think that sometimes you can't find an answer to some questions but that doesn't mean that everything should be dismissed. Not everything has to hang together intellectually in a perfect understandable network before you can have faith the core of it is true, iyswim.

I’m not religious (actually I’m Jewish, so not even that sort of religious), but I know people who have done the Alpha Course back in the day. My sense with them was they didn’t really fully understand what they were getting themselves into and they didn’t really understand the underlying ideology. I wouldn’t necessarily think badly of her. She has probably been given the rosy picture view of Christianity, not the view that emphasises discrimination and stigma. People who are searching to fill a hole don’t focus on the problematic bits. Just say no thanks for now. Obviously if she ultimately becomes openly homophobic, that’s another thing entirely.

Just here to say that as can be seen from this thread, Christians and different churches have a range of views on this but all should be welcoming and friendly to everyone.
There should be information available about your local churches and you should be able to find some who are openly welcoming and supportive of LGBTQ+ people. Where I live there is a lqbtq+ Christian Facebook group. If you want suggestions of churches to try where you live then you could ask on the Christan Mumsnet board?

The alpha course hoovers up vulnerable people. It's a recruitment drive. I doubt they care too much about sexual behaviour so long as they have bums on seats.

Yes our local C of E church is extremely welcoming to everyone of any letter and our LGB couples are made to feel at home (we don't have any T's etc AFAIK, but I imagine they would also be welcome).

He seems like someone to view with caution, to say the least.
This suggests he and his camp may drive schism in the CofE because of the same sex blessings issue.

www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2024/19-january/comment/columnists/angela-tilby-honour-for-gumbel-is-fine-but

What part exactly he had in the 'bash camps' isn't clear survivingchurch.org/2024/07/27/an-elite-church-network/ but I think it should ring alarm bells on the environment in which he developed his beliefs.

I'm in the same page of this poster. It helps that in my parish most of the people mind their own business and never come across as bad if someone was gay, lesbian, divorce, single mum etc. They are just people. Sins are greed, envy, lust, anger, the standard human weakness.

You are right to feel cautious and unfortunately I think that this might be the point at which you and your friend part ways.

I haven’t got the time to write it all out now, but posters above are correct that the part of the church that tends to promote this course is often the least tolerant in their views, while also appearing glossy, youthful and modern.

I wouldn’t go near Alpha myself, because I’m a lesbian and because I’m more aligned with contemplative/questioning approaches to faith these days.

Alpha is rooted in one theology - atonement - as if it’s the only way of understanding the Bible: we have all ‘sinned’ and need ‘saving’, so this understanding of sin is going to permeate everything. As a PP said, according to Alpha/most evangelical churches, any expression of sexuality outside hetero marriage falls short of God’s ideal and is therefore ‘sinful’. By definition, this includes all gay/lesbian relationships. You might not hear anything explicitly homophobic in an Alpha group, but Alpha is NOT wholeheartedly welcoming of gay and lesbian people because it puts expressing gayness in the same bracket as all other ‘sin’ of which we need to repent. And Nicky Gumbel (founder of Alpha) opposed blessings for same-sex marriages in the C of E.

Evangelical church was a huge part of my life when I was younger but it did me a lot of damage as a closeted lesbian. Thankfully I discovered that there’s way more to faith than evangelicalism, through feminist theology, Greenbelt, etc.

the church on the other hand...

@AyrshireTryer I totally agree and I think you have got the the real heart of this issue.
Unfortunately churches are made up of people, and people aren't perfect. So even if everyone tries, church will still fall short of God's unconditional love.

Thanks for your message.

Yes, I've been doing a lot of research on this - being gay/lesbian is bundled in with all the other 'sins' and the issue of homosexuals is side stepped almost. And I've recently learned that Nicky Gumbel has opposed same sex marriages within CofE - is this debate happening right now?
It's interesting to hear that you were raised within an evangelical setting, and being a closeted lesbian must have been so challenging AND damaging for you.
I'm sorry you experienced this. No one should have to go through that.

Thank you for your message.
Yes, currently I'm taking the approach that I'll be supportive of her going but I won't be promoting it or taking part in any way. From a selfish point of view, I'm worried our friendship will deteriorate and she'll be fed utter rubbish that will put a barrier between us.
From a point of view of ethics and moral compass, I oppose it as I don't believe I have sinned. I don't believe in the concept of 'sin' and placing shame on people.

Some Christians believe that homosexual acts are sinful. The majority of Christians believe that heterosexual sex outwith marriage is sinful. But you don't see lots of people worrying about going to Alpha because they are cohabiting with their opposite sex partner of twenty years. There is no difference.
There are lots of actions and ways of life which the Bible says are sinful but which our society is fully accepting of. But people only talk about homosexuality. Weird.
OP, it's likely that most people at Alpha will be living in ways that the Bible says are sinful. Many Christians are too. Homosexuality just gets more airtime than the other 'sins'. If you want to go to Alpha, go. If you don't, don't, but if your friend is enjoying it I would just talk about it with her if she brings it up and enjoy a civilised discussion. Agree to disagree if necessary and stay friends.

Yep. Sin is fundamental to Christianity. Along with the belief that everyone sins. In Christianity, even thinking about doing something sinful is sinful which is very difficult to get your head round.
So the people on alpha aren't saying things are sins from a place of superiority, but from a place of solidarity. Whether or not that comes across is obviously part of the controversy.

My personal take is that it is between an individual and God as to what is an issue in terms of sin for that person and it is not anyone elses job to interfere with that or tell them what is right or wrong. With the only acception being close friends who you are genuinely concerned about and want to help or things which harm other people like abuse which should always be reported and dealt with openly.

Interestingly this chat has challenged me as I am not sure how the LGBT+ community are welcomed within my church and I do feel a level of responsibility for speaking out to make sure it is a safe space. I might email the church and find out what their official stance is.