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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

now i know the 'truth' about DH's friendship with this woman - how do i move forward?

77 replies

naivemum · 28/04/2008 11:27

in feb i posted on here as i was suspicious of a friendship between DH and a woman at work.
there were late night texts, phone calls, and messages on facebook, although i never saw anything i could claim as being threatening to our marriage, i felt the amount of contact was inappropriate. Shortly after i posted that thread, i found out through facebook, that he had arranged to meet her one evening on a job (he has to work some evenings for a job seperate to the one he works at with her), he didn't tell me about it, and when i brought it up with him, he told me he waas going to tell me, but hadn't done as they'd only arranged it the previous day. he knew how I felt about her, but had made the arrangement anyway, sneakily behind my back. I went mad about it and he said he'd been picking his moment to tell me as he knew how i'd react. Anyway he never took her, and things were quiet for a while, in fact he told me that he'd 'distanced himself' from her at work.
A few weeks later I found a text from her saying she was 'not avoiding him at work, but being careful as people were talking' I had no qualms about reading his texts as far as i was concerend it was self preservation and trying to protect our marriage. I brought it up with him, and this time, I was on the verge of leaving, I had had enough of the lies and sneaking around and being told total crap, but he said it was one person who had amde a comment, and that's what offices were like, he only went to lunch with her a couple of times and people would gossip etc.. etc. For the sake of the kids I have stuck it out. But at easter he had popped out and i went on the internet and found he had been using hotmail and I knew he hadn't used a hotmail account in years. I found 2 emails to her.. one sent at the beginning of feb ' what we did lead me to think something might have happened...now i know it never will. So back to normal. the other had been sent the day before...'thanks for listening to me today, i needed to talk things through, now you know how i feel, and i know how you feel (and always did really), you mean so much to me and always will and i am glad you will always be there for me.
At this point I picked up the phone to her and asked her outright what is going on with my husband. She swore to me on her mothers life (i think she still lives at home with her!) that nothing had happened, she said she respected DH as a married man, i asked why people at work thought something was going on, she basically denied everything. When DH got home i showed him the emails I'd seen. His account of things was as follows... at their xmas party she had tried to kiss him (i suspect it was more mutual than this), he says he brushed her off, she was pissed, she made a mistake, which is his expalination for the 1st email. In spite of this he says she has been a really good friend to him while things have been stressful at work but he knows he can't remain friends with her as it is threatening his marriage, so he says she does mean alot to him, but his marriage means more.
I am not entirely sure what I believe...this was 4 weeks ago, although i was ready to leave this time, i have stayed as i believe we can rebuild things. However it is so hard, i can't bear him going to work with her...it is monday morning again, and I am sitting here in tears because he is there with her. As far as i am aware the texts, emails etc...have stopped (unless he has made another account??!!), I am struggling to trust him, and findig i am on a rollercoaster, with some days being great and other days I want to rip his head off. He still maintains that he hasn't actually been unfaithful and i wonder if i am over reacting, but the sneaking around has made it difficult for me to trust him, he might as well have been unfaithful.
I realise I have written an essay here, if anyone is good enough to read and and give me some advice or support, i would be very grateful, by the way i have told no-one about this as I can't bear that thought of people judging us and gossiping.

OP posts:
cestlavie · 28/04/2008 15:10

Hmmm, I'd always be careful using loaded terms like "an emotional affair". The reality of life, I think, is that unless you're the sort of emotionally expressive person in an incredibly strong, open, healthy relationship with a like minded person, everyone has other people with whom they talk about their partners in ways which they would not want their partner to hear.

Practically speaking, that might be as simple as one bloke saying to another "God, she's doing my head in at the moment" or one woman saying to another "Christ, DH is being a twat at the moment". Equally, almost everyone has one or two close friends with whom they have more than one of these type of conversations

Am I wrong on this? Maybe I am... maybe everyone else hear discusses every grievance, anxiety, worry and concern with their partner, although the fact that MN exists suggests they don't. Certainly for me, I've had many conversastions with a couple of really good (female) mates from uni which their partners wouldn't have liked them to be having.

Does this make these conversations "emotional affairs"? Well, no, not really, it's just somewhere to vent, bounce thoughts, whinge and get a different opinion in case it's you who's being out of line and slap you round the face if you're the one being an idiot - the same conversations you have in any close friendship. The difficulty, I guess, is where there's some underlying physical attraction which means there's something going on beyond friendship. In the OP's case, it's hard to tell. Maybe they were just friends; maybe he thought they were friends but she fancied him; maybe they both fancied each other - I don't think she'll ever find that out.

A question to the OP, I guess: how would/ does she feel about him having close female friends per se, or does he have any others?

expatinscotland · 28/04/2008 15:14

Love is an emotion. It grows from sharing feelings, emotions, thoughts, words and experiences with someone else.

So an emotional affair is and can be VERY damaging and hurtful and shouldn't be trivialised.

It goes beyond venting or bouncing ideas of a friend. It's investing emotion, feeling and sentiment with someone who isn't your spouse and when a friendship becomes something else. It's betraying your partner by sharing intimate details about what is wrong with your relationship and how you feel about your partner with another party instead of being honest with your spouse or partner about that.

Hard? Yes. But isn't that what maturity and respect are for?

If you have relationship problems that serious and you feel you can't discuss them with a partner, you need to see a professional, not a work colleague of the opposite sex.

cestlavie · 28/04/2008 15:17

Absolutely agree expat, but then everyone invests emotion, feeling and sentiment in their friends as well as their partners, don't they? It'd be a pretty sorry world if we didn't. The questions is, as for the OP, when does a friendship become something else?

naivemum · 28/04/2008 15:22

cestlavie - DH does have other female friends and always has done, i have never felt threatened by that.
the difference here, is that this friendship became sneaky and secretive....that obviously is not right, or a normal friendship is it...it's more than that, what it means is he know I wouldn't like it, he know deep down, despite his protestations..it's wrong

OP posts:
cestlavie · 28/04/2008 15:25

Naivemum - yes, that is wrong, the more so if he has other female friends to talk to. I was just wondering whether (a) he didn't have any other women he could speak to or (b) you didn't feel comfortable him having female friends which was why he was acting secretively.

expatinscotland · 28/04/2008 15:29

you go beyond that when you sneak around, lie to your partner or when it becomes so noticeable that even the other party mentions 'people talking' and the like.

or when your partner makes it clear to you how uncomfortable and hurtful they find it, but you STILL keep doing it.

it sounds like he's trying to make amends, and i think the OP and he could use some counselling.

but it doesn't negate what he did emotionally harmed her - and that should be acknowledged and not trviialised.

like i said, hopefully they can benefit from talking to a professional.

Salla · 28/04/2008 18:53

Well, I still think that people are allowed to love and have strong feelings for all kinds of people and things in this world. Love is not an exclusive couple thing, the more you share of it the better the world will be. Sometimes I love my relatives and children more than I love my DH, is that also not allowed? Slightly naive of you I think to assume that.

CountessDracula · 28/04/2008 18:54

yeah right

HappyWoman · 28/04/2008 19:18

Venting your feeling to a friend who you know will support your marriage is very different to telling someone who has not interest in 'saving' your marriage.

I have friends and we all have a good moan about our OH but we all know and understand that we love our OH and it is just a way of getting rid of anger.

When the 'friend' (ow) is not interested in supporting that relationship is when the trouble begins.

I too have male friends and know their partners, so i dont think any of them would ever see me as a threat.

I have also had thoughts about men which i know are wrong in the past - but i feel i knew my own boundaries and so knew when to back off.

The op is asking for advice to get through this - but until her h realises he has done something wrong he will continue to make out she is in the wrong.

HappyWoman · 28/04/2008 19:20

Also meant to say if any of my friends were 'sneaking about' or lying about me i would be very happy to back off. The ow surely is not so stupid to see that - and that is the problem too.

HappyWoman · 28/04/2008 19:23

That is why the ow should take some of the blame - she knows what she is doing is 'wrong' and so she is reponsible to some extent for the demise of the relationship. She may not have made a commitment to the wife but as a human she should know how to treat others with respect, if she wants any in return.

naivemum · 28/04/2008 19:59

I have spoken again to DH this evening. I have made it clear that i am finding it very difficult to cope with him working with her and come sunday night, i start to feel almost a sense of dread. I asked him if he realised the damage he'd done. He said he did and did i want him to look for another job....i don't know the answer to this it is a big step, is that just going to make an already stressful situation worse?
He said he has little to do with her at work, and if he does it is purely work and limited to what is necessary (i only have his word for this) I asked him that if he wasn't happy with me then what's to stop it happeing again...he said he is happy and we really need to start looking to the future.. I don't think i am going to get any more answers from him, but i think he seems to have the right attitude, my problem, as I told him tonight, is i am not sure i can believe what he tells me.

OP posts:
littlewoman · 28/04/2008 21:09

I don't think he is having a physical affair with her, but I would ask him to change jobs.

SofiaAmes · 29/04/2008 03:50

He must change jobs if you are to move on.

HappyWoman · 29/04/2008 07:08

Those words could have come from my h mouth - and the ow. They both assured me that there was little contact at work blah blah blah.......

I think you need to be true to yourself - you clearly find it difficult whilst he is there so if a change of jobs is what it takes then i suggest he does start looking. Ok it will be stressful but at least it will be a huge statement of what he feels is really important. However i predict he will make you feel guilty for suggesting it - sorry classic behaviour again.

You can move forward but at this time he needs to be the one doing all the work - he is the one who has damaged your trust.

Moving jobs of course will not mean he could not carry on an affair and may make it easier (this is another line he may use to 'win' you round btw), but it will show he is willing to do whatever it takes to move forward.

Good luck and stay strong and true to yourself - you are not being silly for feeling any of this.

Pheebe · 29/04/2008 08:18

If he's committed to making it work with you then he needs to change jobs, no excuses, no 'its not that easy' its a simple choice

ladylush · 29/04/2008 09:00

I think he should change jobs. It won't feel like you two can have a fresh start (which you need esp as baby on way) whilst they still work together.

naivemum · 29/04/2008 09:31

i am going to ask him to change jobs.
In spite of what he said to me last night about not having anything to do with her at work, i only have his word for it, and his words count for very little with me now.
I need him to show he is commited to making it work, and it is the only way I am going to be able to move on I think.
I know it won't be easy, but he should have thought of that before...it's his problem

OP posts:
ladylush · 29/04/2008 10:06

Agree

naivemum · 29/04/2008 11:41

I have asked him to look for another job, he said he wouldn't look for one until the baby is born becasue we are trying to build up a business at the same time and his work have been very flexible in allowing him to take time off and potentially work part time and eventually leave altogether, he wouldn't get this somewhere else. He has said that I will just have to believe him where she's concerned.
I can't believe him, he has lied, deceived me and actively encouraged another woman, which i think constitutes being unfaithful. He said he let his feelings get out of control and he put an end to it. But he still needs to pay the bills at the end of th day.
I said I fought for him and our marriage, he obviously isnt prepared to do the same.
He said if he can build up our business he will be at home all day and then i'll know where he is all time. Things got a bit nasty then and I said 'don't start with that, like i need to control your every move, that goes along with the paranoia and depression you accused me of..you made this made this mess it is up to you to build things up with me'
I don't know where we go from here, we are going round in circles and getting nowehere.

OP posts:
ladylush · 29/04/2008 11:51

Hmm, so he is thinking about your financial future whilst you are thinking about whether you even have a future as a couple. I think you have to set the limits here and decide what you want.

naivemum · 29/04/2008 11:56

I just don't know what else to say to him.
When he said it was important for him to be secure in his job so that he can build up the business, i just felt like he was prioritising that above our marriage, but at the end of the day we have 2 kids and a mortgage, we have to be secure financially, esp if ultimately he runs the business full time and leaves work....but we might not have a marriage by then.

OP posts:
ladylush · 29/04/2008 12:08

I think your last point says it all. I think maybe counselling would be good here. I personally found it very helpful - not for me but for our relationship. Men don't like talking much and can be aloof or manipulative in these situations. In counselling they have to answer difficult questions coming from a neutral party and that is very powerful.

HappyWoman · 29/04/2008 13:36

I think counselling might help here too.
You are being right though - if you cant handle him working with her (and there are not many who could) then that is the choice he has to make. I do think if you back down on this and he makes you feel you are being silly you will forever feel like you are second to what he wants.

It is his problem and you BOTH need to find a solution that you are BOTH happy with - not just him.

Be true to yourself - if he is not prepared to take you seriously then how can you really rely on him.

I do feel for you though - as i never asked my h to leave his job (all the usual - financal stuff) - however he has realised that it will never work for him, her or his firm to have this situation. I have always supported him in his career (as i am sure you have) and now feel i can not as she still works there. He is in the process of leaving now and yes it is hard but unfortunatly that is yet another casulty of work place affairs.

ladylush · 29/04/2008 13:40

Yes you are right HW. If only there was something in the induction pack to warn the weak willed, cock led idiots. Hmm, maybe there is a market there

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