I've f-ed up - how to fix?

[RedIkeaChair]

My dc father was an abusive man and I eventually escaped when he was removed by police. It's been 8 years and there is a contact order in place regarding our dc 10 and 13.

Since ex subjected 13 yo to the kind of verbal and emotional abuse that he used to do to me at the end of last year dc1 has not gone to stay there (has refused), while dc2 has still gone (she is a girl and ex very much favourites her). Dc1 had got back to having irregular phone calls with his father though.

A few weeks ago dc were complaining about chores and I pointed out to them how much I do and what a small proportion of that I am asking them to do and said (without thinking) that I'd been a single parent for 13 years.

They said - no dad looked after us while you worked mum - because this is a tale ex has fed them when the reality was that he looked after them for 2 months and then forced me to get signed off by doctor for 'stress' when in fact it was because he said he would kill himself if I didn't and so I had to take a month off under false pretences while I sorted alternative childcare for them.

Again - stupidly without thinking it through I responded that it had only been 2 months - usually I let such things slide in the interests of not bad mouthing their father. But I was at the end of my tether that day - which is no excuse.

So since then the 13yo has gone back to refusing to talk on the phone to his dad and saying he hates him, he's a liar, he'll never see him again, etc.

I absolutely do not want to damage their relationship with their father, no matter what a bastard he may be. I have said to them he's not lied because he did look after you, etc. I obviously have managed to damage it and I don't know what to do to make it better?

What can I do?

Others might feel differently but I wouldn't class that as bad mouthing
That's telling the truth and your kids are old enough to to understand

You told the truth. I don’t see a problem with that - sooner or later things like this come out, or ex will lie to them and they’ll see what he is.
Hopefully ex will learn to stop telling stories.

If the relationship is damaged, that is down to him - he's the liar and the abuser. Children deserve to know the truth. You've not bad mouthed him by telling the truth. Don't lose sleep over it. If he wants a better relationship with his children, he needs to be a better person.

I am in a very very sumilar situation. It is very hard because not loving both parents or anger towards one isn't healthy for the child. However I will absolutely correct things said in manipulation. I think you handled this well as long as you miss out the manipulation aspects

You have not messed up. My mother never told me how awful my Dad was, and I was crushed when I found out as an adult what he had put her through, and what a horrible man he was.

I hid from my eldest what an idiot her Dad was, and she is going through similar as he no longer wants contact with her as she is over 18 so his “job is done”.

I think it is better that they know.

Ok, well this is making me feel a bit better, but I agree that not loving one parent isnt healthy. I'm sure dc1 does love his dad, he is just very angry right now.

The other day I was saying to him that it's important to speak to his dad and trying to help him to feel like he could and he said to me 'you're scared of him, that's why you're saying this.' Which kind of floored me because I am but I thought I'd hidden it. So now I'm worried that I'm inadvertently transferring my own feelings about his dad onto him, despite my best efforts to never say anything negative about him. And I don't ever say anything bad about dad, but there was a whole thing of his dad digitally harassing me culminating in a verbally abusive incident in front of the dc earlier in the year and I now do not have any direct contact with him. I cannot hide this from them, and there is no other way to handle it - I have taken advice from police in blocking him everywhere and only communicating in writing via one specific method.

It's all such a mess.

You probably need to stop trying to push eldest, it is a sad situation like I say but it sounds like your dc is pretty switched on and trying to persuade him may just make him worse tbh. What does the ex do to rebuild the relationship ? Mine gets his new Mrs to text dc every 4 months or so ... she is well aware it isn't even her dad texting, so began to resent people telling her to keep in contact, probably rightly so as it was effecting her self confidence with her having to put effort in but him not even typing a message out.

Your Exs relationship with his children is no longer by our business. It’s up to them to navigate .
children see much more than we realise

Don't lie to your children. They need someone they can trust absolutely.

My 4 year old is already seeing what a useless piece of shit his dad is I don't need to tell him anything myself . They realise more than we know even at earlier ages.
Stuff like telling him 5 times in the last year they are going on holiday for ds to find out on arriving at his dads house that they are no longer going . He doesn't need me to tell him his dad is a bullshiter and unreliable .
They see this stuff for themselves

I agree with all the above about you not being responsible for the damage to their relationship.

You do want them to have the boat possible relationship though, so I think you and your DC could have a conversation about it when everybody’s feeling a bit calmer.

Try and explain that parenting is difficult for some people but that doesn’t mean their dad doesn’t love them. It might stick in the craw, but it’s for your child not your ex.

You need to stop making excuses for him and trying to force contact. He is an abusive piece of shit and unfortunately your children will eventually realise that, don’t ruin your relationship with them by trying to protect your ex. You say it’s not healthy to not love a parent but it’s not healthy to have an abusive parent so don’t try to make the relationship what it is not. You don’t want you children to grow up thinking his behaviour is normal as they will become abusive or get into abusive relationships themselves.

I think that this man is still in your head, even after all these years. You didn't bad mouth him, you told your DC a factual truth.

It is one of my pet bug bears that so often women basically choose to lie to their children because they feel that if they tell the truth they are "badmouthing" the father and damaging the DCs' relationship with him. It is not badmouthing to state, factually, that their dad did not do x or y. Badmouthing him would be to be storming around the house ranting about what a useless wanker he is and how he never steps up and he's never done anything useful in his life etc.

I think that with the best of intentions, hiding the truth from children just comes back to bite the women AND the children.

I actually think that it’s a sign of a healthy self esteem that a teenager can recognise that a parent has been abusive towards them and stop contact. That is hugely self protective.

Refusing to care for a young child, subjecting them to domestic abuse, being emotionally abusive towards them are all unacceptable behaviour and I think that your son has drawn a healthy boundary. It’s not only you that their dad let down when he refused to look after them.

In your position I would stop trying to encourage contact and instead focus on supporting him to grieve and heal. With lots of love from you and maybe some talking therapy etc?

I disagree, it is weirder to expect them to love an abuser just because he is related. I think you need to stop trying to force or encourage their relationship, remain neutral as possible so no one cam accused you of parental alienation but get out of your head that they have to love him or want a relationship with an abuser. You say he's actually started on your son, guilting him into maintaining a relationship is really wrong imo. They are allowed to set their own boundaries.

I see no badmouthing. You stated fact. He is the one manipulating the truth. Nothing wrong. So they should see him for who he is. Facts are fine. And you weren't saying it in a spiteful way, just pointing it out in response to what was said.

You're fine. Nothing wrong.

Quote
"Since ex subjected 13 yo to the kind of verbal and emotional abuse that he used to do to me at the end of last year dc1 has not gone to stay there (has refused)"

Why are you trying to force contact with a person that you don't feel safe having contact with?

If your child doesn't want to see or speak to their dad he has no-one to blame but himself.

and he said to me 'you're scared of him, that's why you're saying this.' Which kind of floored me because I am but I thought I'd hidden it.

Your son has been abused by his father and is perceptive enough to recognise that you are scared of his father. Your son has, on that basis, decided not to see his father any more. At 13, he's old enough to decide that.

One form of abuse is denying a child the ability to have age-appropriate boundaries. Respect the boundary that your son has set.

At 13 your DC is old enough to see through the bs and push back against it. That's why he's started to get the treatment from your ex. It's no longer safe for him, don't try and push him to keep contact.

The eldest one is now of an age where they need to be told the truth. In small doses, obviously, and as and when you need to correct the misconceptions they have due to the lies your ex has fed them, but they deserve not to be kept in the dark any more.

You can't carry on like this. There comes a point when young people need to know what really happened.

No advice, but wanted to say that you are a good mum, some people will use kids to get at the other parent, and if have been in an abusive relationship sometimes will not try at all to encourage the kids relationship. But you aren’t doing that, you are doing what is right.

Ok thank you to all. I shall respect ds boundaries. I do actually have some specialist da counselling lined up for both since the incident earlier in the year. I will stop worrying about ex going on at me about ds not contacting him.

Thanks for sense checking me.

I'm sorry for all you've been through.

Your DS sounds really perceptive. He knows his father is abusive, he has seen it towards you and experienced it himself. I don't think giving them the truth is badmouthing and your DS has already come to the conclusion that his Dad is not someone he wants to be involved with. I think the best thing you can do is support DS in how he's feeling.

YOu didnt' say in the original post that your ex would be attacking you for DS' choices, but I'm not surprised. You should consider yourself lucky that your DS is seeing through him becuase the alternative is taht as he gets older he believes his father's rubbish about you because I guarantee that he IS bad mouthing you, every chance he gets.

U told the truth, shame kids are stuck in the middle of their parents mistakes.