Shocked to have been secretly recorded at work.

[Whataninvasionofprivacy]

I work as a TA in school, and last week at the end of a lesson, the teacher called me over and indicated (behind the kid’s backs) to the class cupboard. She then whispered “Will you turn off the iPad?” I wasn’t sure what she was on about, but she then whispered that she’d just recorded the entire lesson, but didn’t want the kids to know. She had been told to do this by a senior staff member.

Am I being ridiculous to feel annoyed by this? I’m sure I should have been told beforehand. Also what about parents who don’t normally consent, they had no choice in this case.

Not giving up @TiredEyesSoreHeart, but feel really deflated that neither ACAS or ICO seemed to want to answer the damn question of is it illegal or not. They kept saying it depended on the school’s legislation and that I need to talk to them. All they’ll say is that yes, it’s legal, yes you signed something and so did parents.

There’s Images of kids on all the iPads left lying around classrooms. At least a year’s worth for sure! It makes me laugh actually, because I once lost a folder with kid’s names in. Well I didn’t actually lose it, it mysteriously vanished from where I’d left it. It just had kid’s work in and their names. A big fuss was made about GDPR, yet last week I went into the copy room, and there on the table are a load of kid’s medical records, that someone had sent to the printer and not picked up.

You've been quite disparaging about the teacher's practice in more than one post and not just that she didn't tell you she was filming.

She's not meant to be recorded to be 'caught out' any more than you'd like that (and you did seem to calm down when it turned out to be the focus on her and not you, and you were just caught on the recording). She's meant to reflect and discuss and be coached on developing overall (with another trained teacher!) Habits are hard to break and make, and what we regularly is just what we do. Knowing something is a good idea needs action to embed and professional development builds towards this.

It's not about 'putting on a show', it's about trying a new pedagogical strategy, or scripting something specific and seeing its impact. Trialling a technique to share new information or check pupils' understanding might need breaking down, with a key component focused on.

It's not about making it look a certain way, because managers and/or observers aren't going to have a set checklist of what they want to see. They want whatever has been chosen to be working as well as possible to have the intended effects on the pupils and will dissect what they see.

There's absolutely no use trying something the kids aren't familiar with that you think you're 'meant' to be doing and expecting someone to be impressed. It either won't work at all because they're not prepared and trained, and be obvious you never normally do this, or it will be open that this is a first step ready to be adapted with feedback.

The only thing she's done wrong is be discourteous by not having chance to tell you it was being recorded out of the pupils' earshot.

Your entire comment proves what you know about my relationship with the teacher, precisely nothing! It always makes ne smile when people like you tell others exactly what they were/are thinking.

I like the teacher actually, but that still doesn’t make what happened ok! Sorry about that!

I haven’t been disparaging about her at all. I haven’t said a single negative thing about her, other than she acted differently that day, which she did. I’d have acted differently too had I known, anyone would. No idea what you mean about me ‘calming down when I knew the focus wasn’t on me’ It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to work out the focus wasn’t on me does it? I knew nothing about it.

You can drone on about the training claptrap as long as you like. What happened was not ok on any level. Perhaps you need a little training yourself.

The fact remains that your "management" (who don't seem to know how to manage anything) appear to be treating you with contempt. Still don't know your Union rep's position on this - maybe you don't have one. ACAS are understaffed & may not want to get involved.
Only you know if it would be worth working elsewhere. I would not want to send any child of mine to a school with values like this.

Oh yeah, because you weren't blathering on about staying up late to sort a group's task even though you're only paid til 3:30 because you were worried about being perceived as not doing a good enough job?

I'm definitely mistaken that you kept saying she should be recorded secretly, to the point they you should be asked to hide the camera? And you never said she performed differently from usual, as if this was a bad thing?

I don't think you know 'anyone' would have acted differently. If it were me, I'd have done what I'd planned. And if I'd planned to do something I'd read about or heard at a conference etc. because I thought it would benefit my class, I'd do that. It's not about the observer. It's about doing your job using your professional judgement and maybe seeking support from someone else with QTS.

It was okay on most levels, actually. Just you don't like not being told. Most people, including me, actually agree with you that this part isn't acceptable. So just say that to the people who can do it differently in future. Only maybe don't speak to them like they're thick because they see things differently from you. You can assert your rights if they're categorically wrong, but you just seem to be your high horse here because you feel you've been treated like lesser than the teaching staff, when in running the lesson, she actually is contracted to make decisions and direct you.

It is more than discourteous not to inform the TA that she maybe recorded. It seems part of an unhealthy culture at the ops school to treat TAs as lesser beings that can be disregarded.

Are you ok? You come across as a bit stressed. The OP has said why she feels her or the children being recorded without consent is problematic. Others, including me, have mentioned GDPR and that some pupils are not permitted to be filmed for child protection reasons. The fact the OP is a teaching assistant does not negate their right not to be filmed without consent. They are not a lesser being because they are below the pay grade of a teacher. They still have the same basic rights as everyone else, and so they should in my view. People might have different paid jobs but they're all still people at the end of the day

I've in no way stated or implied they OP shouldn't be treated the same as any other employee. I have repeatedly said that she deserved to know and should address this with her colleague/line manager. She obviously ought to have basic rights which are not role dependent.

Just as child protection issues and GDPR compliance are parts of modern life, as are occasions where the fundamental reason this problem occurred at all will take place. Yes, it needs to be done with employee consent, and it might not need to be video and audio recording, but there's no need to dismiss the idea of reflecting on your professional development as an obvious excuse to break rules and upset people or take their rights away.

Disdain for the teacher, and the petty comments about it being better to record the teacher without her knowledge since it's for her benefit (it's not really, it's for the kids), and the general disbelief that self review is a reasonable thing to do, scoffing at her 'change' or 'performance' just mean she doesn't seem any more interested in working alongside anyone respectfully as a professional, than the picture painted of the class teacher who failed to obtain explicit informed consent for the video.

As it happens, asking OP to stop the recording heavily implies that it wasn't meant to be a secret from her and she was meant to be aware, which makes it seem like it was simply an oversight which just needs to be discussed. Usually, if SLT have pushed their luck with something, pointing it out so they know they won't be getting away with it is all that's needed.

I think we might have to agree to disagree. Your posts come across to me as from a person who may be experiencing anxiety or stress. Maybe some people like you think the OP was expressing "distain for the teacher (your words). I didn't form that impression. You also use words like "only don't speak to them as if they're thick because they don't see things like you do", which is not very nice and doesn't accurately reflect what the OP has said. I think people should be able to have different opinions without being unpleasant in their language about it.

My word was 'disdain' because that's what I meant. Writing 'your words' doesn't make it so.

The irony is that my point was about OP speaking without disrespect (as though she thinks they're stupid) even if she doesn't see things like them, which is virtually what you just asserted as your belief. (Don't worry yourself for a third time; my incredulity doesn't need to be incorrectly interpreted as stress.) You might not like the word I used, but her tone had been unpleasant towards and about others (whether she likes mine or not) and she's the one who needs to have a difficult conversation with an employer.

Yes, that was an inadvertent typo. You are correct - the correct word is disdain. Ok, so you are not stressed. I haven't found the OP's language unpleasant. I have thought yours to be quite rude and unpleasant towards the OP and I thought it was maybe because you were anxious or stressed but you have corrected me and this is not the case. Now I feel like your language towards me who was just saying an honest view is pretty unpleasant so I won't be engaging with you any more. I do hope you are able to be pleasant to children and/or teaching assistants you come into contact with. Politeness costs nothing

@Whitak
I do hope you’re not a teacher with your poor ability to read and interpret text…Wow!!

Let me make it simple for you. I did not say I stayed up late preparing stuff for a group, because I was worried about not being perceived to be doing a good job. If you go back to the quote in question, you will see that I was merely answering another poster who suggested that maybe I was concerned about being filmed, because I should work harder. I then pointed out that the previous night I had stayed up late doing unpaid work. I went on to say I also stayed late etc. How does this show me disparaging the teacher?

Onto your next point! What I said is, if this recording was supposedly to help the teacher improve her teaching, then it should be kept secret from her instead of me, and I should have hidden the camera. You will see I note that of course no one should be hiding the camera BECAUSE COVERT RECORDING OF STAFF AND CHILDREN IS ILLEGAL.

Wow this is hard work! Yes I did definitely say she performed differently from usual, but why assume I meant this was a bad thing? She performed differently because she knew she was being recorded.

Right! You say I’m on my high horse because I feel like I’ve been treated as less important than the teaching staff. Nothing gets past you does it @Whitak? Er… well yes kind of!! I mean I was treated as less important because, I was secretly recorded by a teacher, along with 30 unknowing children.

Yes the teacher is contracted to make decisions and direct me. I don’t recall saying I had a problem with that. Unfortunately you, and many other teachers who have commented, seem to think that being a teacher gives you the god given right to override GDPR/safeguarding simply because you are a teacher.

I’m sorry for expecting to be treated equally to a teacher. I am hearing that you don’t think we should expect equal rights because we are not as important. We should just shut up and let the teacher direct us.

Keep working on those inference skills.

From the unpleasant messages I've had from this Whitak poster, who I have decided not to bother engaging with, I'd just ignore the rude messages if I was you. They're not worth the time or energy

Thank you @DizzyDandilion @Whitak seems to be trying to make a point that I somehow have a problem with being ‘directed’ and that I do not like the teacher who recorded me because I pointed out that she acted differently that day. I did say anyone being recorded would put on a show because actually it’s true. Every single person on this forum would put in their very best show if they were told they were being observed or recorded.

@GranPepper Yes she’s rather special isn’t she. I’m afraid there are a lot of teachers (by no means all) who do think they are on a whole new level to TA’s Thankfully in my school of 500 plus, we only have a few like that. @Whitak is definitely one of those types 😥

Yes, she seems to be. My relative, who is a fantastic teacher and who I know is popular with all the staff - janitor, teaching assistants, dinner ladies, cleaners because she is pleasant and treats everyone as part of the team. And, do you know what - when my grandchild started at school, I made a point of speaking politely to the janitor and the school Secretary. They took an interest and helped my grandchild, who was 4 when starting school, fit in. It takes all the staff in a school to help pupils and, repeating myself with apologies, they should not be covertly recorded - not the staff "under" the teachers, not the pupils.

@GranPepper The full thread would take forever to read, but I have absolutely not shown disdain for the teacher, scoffed at her acting differently (which she did) or made silly remarks that I should have hidden the camera from her, because it was for her training. What I actually said was, given that the training was for her benefit, why did it need to be kept secret from me and surely it would have been better being kept secret from her seeing as it was supposed to improve/help her teaching. Obviously this is said tongue in cheek, as we all know that covertly recording children and staff is illegal, yes @Whitak, illegal even for a teacher to do.

You're ignorant enough to tell me my inference is inaccurate, but you say, 'I'm hearing....' something you've inadvertently read into what I said.

You can go to your Headteacher and talk about this, or you can keep arguing just because you've come across a stranger who is less than 100% bothered that this happened and takes issue with your attitude around it. I do feel it's fair to say, as an example, you calmed down about it a bit over a couple of days (between posts) when it transpired this was about the teacher and not you (because you wouldn't immediately have been certain), but it's just one thing you can't accept being said and vehemently deny. Think what you like. You can brush things away as 'tongue in cheek' but I still think the fact you said then shows contempt.

You can defend your effort and your rights as much as you want to use, but in the grand scheme of things, agreement here doesn't matter. You need to bring it up with your employer.

I'm sure you'll pick this apart too (am I'm not even looking directly at the posts) but you've said both there's no further you can go/too challenging/won't get anywhere/whistleblowing blah blah blah and no I'm not actually just giving up. It's one or the other.

Maybe you'll be totally vindicated and get what you want.

I think everyone agrees, that recording the op, without her direct consent for that recording, was not on.
I hope everyone agrees, that from what the op has described, there is an unequal culture in her school where TAs are not respected by slt in particular.
How to deal with it though...
The TA meeting sounds a good start. Is a member of SLT at these meetings?
Is there a more sympathetic member of SLT you could talk to about this matter and the general culture of the school?
Do you have a staff wellbeing policy at the school? If not, perhaps this could be suggested as something for the school to consider? Staff members could be involved in the process alongside governors.

Mine doesn't. Because filming interactions with clients without their informed consent would be completely inappropriate.

This is exactly it @DizzyDandilion !!!

I’m not on my high horse as suggested by @Whitak

Quote from @Whitak

you just seem to be your high horse here because you feel you've been treated like lesser than the teaching staff, when in running the lesson, she actually is contracted to make decisions and direct you.

To be honest I’m incredulous that my daring to not be happy about this situation, has been attributed to me having an issue with authority, not liking the teacher and being unprofessional. @Whitak None of the aforementioned is correct.

Yes @DizzyDandilion a member of SLT are present when we have our meetings. I love my job, I love the kids I work with and the people. However that does not discount the fact that there is a culture which suggests as TA’s we are less important.

We are not allowed our phones in class, teachers are.

We have to pay for toast, teachers get it free.

We are given much small portions of food from the canteen, yet pay the same price.

We are not allowed to accept a small token of thanks from a child, teachers can. I was told to return a small cupcake, whilst the teacher received many token gestures weekly.

A new TA was told to move, extremely rudely, in the canteen by a member of SLT, because they had intended to sit there.

We are told to put any reports on the system in our own time unpaid. Teachers can do this during the day.

There is an unspoken rule that we do not park in certain spaces in the car park, as these are for teachers.

I could go on! None of this means I am a teacher hater. It’s not their fault! They even recognise themselves we are treated differently.

My oh my...this sounds an unpleasant environment to work in...

You nearly died?

This doesn't sound good. I'd quit and see if you can take up your second job full time?

I've been supportive of what you've said about covert recording (it should not happen). I've been supportive of you inferring TA's should be treated with respect (they should be as they are part of a whole team including janitors, cleaners and more who contribute to the childrens' education). Your latest comment however ("culture which suggests we as TA's are less important .. we don't get free toast .. you had to return a cupcake while teachers get given gifts every week .. you get smaller lunch portions but pay the same money") doesn't really ring true tbh. It comes across, to me anyway, that you are in danger of harbouring some resentment. An old acquaintance of mine took a TA role as a stepping stone to go back to Uni to convert her degree into a teaching degree by way of PGDE and she became a teacher. PGDE is a Scottish post grad course but I know from another friend there are similar courses available in England and presumably there are in Wales and N Ireland as well. Maybe it would be an idea for you to weigh up your options. While a teacher recording other staff and children is not complying to GDPR, teachers are in most cases more important to the childrens' education than teaching assistants are.