Shocked to have been secretly recorded at work.

[Whataninvasionofprivacy]

I work as a TA in school, and last week at the end of a lesson, the teacher called me over and indicated (behind the kid’s backs) to the class cupboard. She then whispered “Will you turn off the iPad?” I wasn’t sure what she was on about, but she then whispered that she’d just recorded the entire lesson, but didn’t want the kids to know. She had been told to do this by a senior staff member.

Am I being ridiculous to feel annoyed by this? I’m sure I should have been told beforehand. Also what about parents who don’t normally consent, they had no choice in this case.

Ok- so do you stop your children going to shopping centres, libraries, sports centres, museums, cafes, train stations, or public transport in case they are filmed?

and the difference? Because they put a sign up saying they are using cctv it’s ok?

as you point out, there are data breaches happening constantly to platforms that spend a lot more on data security than schools. But do you really think your local shopping centre will have better data protection than your kid’s school.

and look at the NHS - data breaches happen there frequently. Does it stop you giving your medical details to them? ( I’d say no because the risk of not seeking medical treatment outweighs the risk of someone finding out your medical history)

There's a difference between stopping kids doing something "in case" they are filmed, and accepting that schools can and should covertly film students and store data insecurely (as OP has told us happened).

And again with medical systems- it's the same, a risk/benefit analysis. Yes, the risks (grim as they are) are not as bad as not getting medical attention. Here, the "risks" (that students would be told they're being filmed and might act differently because of it in a lesson that will be reviewed) of not being filmed covertly, are negligible compared to the risks of what might done with that data obtained without consent.

But I don’t think there’s a scenario where the kids would be asked for their permission. It would be the parents surely?

and as I’ve said the risk isn’t that the kids act differently, the risk is that teacher training is impaired and impacted resulting in worse results for the pupils.

you are now saying the risk is the video being stored insecurely ( not that they’ll be accused of a crime). So worst case scenario, someone has access to a video of a class being taught? What damage is there with this?

the damage is very clear with leaked medical data, but a video of some kids in a classroom? I just can’t get worked up about it ( and parent of mixed race child, but don’t agree they’d be calling the police on them.

also, they WILL be filmed if they go into a shopping centre, or anywhere with an entrance/exit. CCTV is really good now. The risk of them attracting police attention is far greater if someone spotted kids doing something deemed suspicious in a public area.
Also, do you check the data protection procedures of every shop and public place you visit?

so why get worked up about schools?

and the difference? Because they put a sign up saying they are using cctv it’s ok?

at this point I can’t work out if you are stupid on disingenuous because the point has been made many times.

CCTV is used to protect people and assets. There is a balance of risks (privacy v safety) and in shops where filming results in a low privacy risk and opportunity to opt out high CCTV is permitted.

additionally cctv is typically low resolution make identifying individuals harder, doesn’t record voices, reviewed only if there is an issue and retained for very short periods of time.

Additionally, just because Tesco (or whoever) uses CCTV doesn’t mean they’re operating legally. Shops, offices, police forces, schools, private companies and public entities have all been sanctioned for their failure to comply with law in this area.

if you are genuinely fine with recording children covertly on basis it’s “only for training” or “only the teacher and the supervisor see it” ask yourself how you’d feel if your next doctors appointment was recorded covertly . Would you really be ok with that?

But I don’t think there’s a scenario where the kids would be asked for their permission. It would be the parents surely?

The DPA makes it clear that children, and not just their parent, need to consent. The few exceptions would not apply here.

I am not only saying there's one risk. I'm saying there's multiple risks.

CCTV is different for reasons that have been enumerated multiple times by working experts in this very thread. Go back and read it.

Why would teacher training be impaired because students know they are being filmed? Because they would be better behaved and there wouldn't be footage of classroom management of a rowdy classroom?

As someone who:

1. works in criminal law
2. knows my own children will statistically be likely subject to over-policing for racist reasons
3. has ever opened a newspaper and read about data mismanagement

I am absolutely fine with my level of concern over the covert recording of children in a classroom. It is enormously disturbing that the teachers here aren't.

So worst case scenario, someone has access to a video of a class being taught? What damage is there with this?

What damage is there if video of children in a classroom is sold on the dark web to paedophiles? If a child’s image is used to create child ‘pornography’ (child rape and abuse imagery) and shared widely - together with an identifying uniform to let paedophiles know what school the child attends? Or used to advertise harmful products? Or aged up with AI so pornography, or just widespread use of their image, follows them through life? What harm is there if it is used to identify the school a child attends where abusive parents can gain access to them? Or if a bully in the class uploads an embarrassing segment and shares it around the school and community? Or creates a derogatory meme using a child?….

....or has their very first epileptic seizure, or collapses and dies from a brain tumour - as happened during lessons in my childhood.

Kids may well behave differently knowing they are being filmed - but quite frankly, so what? Are we saying teachers can't be good teachers without this? How the hell did we produce good teachers before this tech was available? I very much doubt observers hid in the cupboards to make observation more "real".

Anyone believing covert filming is an essential element of teacher training needs to realise they (and are children) are being sold down the river for convenience and £££ to the tech companies selling this stuff.

This. To the point I’m suspicious if it’s the company here flogging it. No one can be this stupid surely. Hopefully not teachers but you never know…Comparing that to being covertly and illegally videoed in the workplace/place of study without consent. Even children need to give consent to filming/photos - that’s the law. I give you the example of many schools breaking the law under the new KCSIE document and online searches.

Again, as a practitioner, I can assure you there is a whole lot of scrutiny and legislation in relation to CCTV in the public domain and places like supermarkets too.

In terms of "what harm" from a teacher covertly recording..you have had some good examples. But don't forget the really obvious one, which was perfectly demonstrated by this thread being started, that it erodes trust. It erodes trust between colleagues and the trust in the student -.teacher relationship.

And finally let's not forget that even if you can't see any of the harms, it has already been pointed out quite a few times that covert recording in this situation is illegal.

If you work in an office in the city of London and move between buildings, you will unknowingly likely pass through multiple camera and body scanner systems in your career. Every office is monitored, there are microphones and cameras in the lifts, corridors and in some cases the toilets and every electronic conversation is recorded. If you use company WiFi on your personal phone, you will be monitored. Your employers may use keyboard and desktop camera monitoring. Security passes are monitored and if you work for a finance or banking company, you may have bag searches.

The notion that this ship hasn’t sailed a long time ago is deluded.

The idea that teachers can secretly record children ‘for training’ also ignores the possible nefarious intent of a paedophile teacher who capture recordings of children with harmful intent (or of a teacher acting under the instruction of a paedophile).

The lack of critical thought as to the safeguarding implications of this is shocking.

Employees are not children which is special category data

Employees are told what monitoring is in place and why (or it would be illegal)

And you're welcome to your opinion on this.
Meanwhile, the law still stands...

I’m an employee! This is my point, I’m not a child and yet I WAS NOT told about this.

and therefore it was illegal

My argument is this!

This video was taken to help improve teaching apparently. So SLT can see what is and is not working. So, if the recording is covert to ensure the kids don’t change their behaviour, why is is not also covert from the teacher, to ensure she doesn’t change hers. She definitely acted differently that day as ONLY SHE KNEW, she was being recorded for training purposes. I did not know. To the couple of people who say maybe I should work harder if I’m concerned about being filmed, I think that is very unfair. If you were told you were going to be observed at work, then of course you’d act differently. I do a good job at school, I know that. I love my job and give 100%. No one works as a TA for the money I promise you. Teachers ask for me to work in their class but the answer still stands that it was very unfairly in favour of the teacher. To judge a lesson fairly it should have been secret from both of us…YET IT SHOULD NOT, BECAUSE I NOW KNOW THIS IS ILLEGAL UNLESS A CRIME HAS BEEN SUSPECTED.

And? Working in the city, in finance, you know this is a thing. You know that CCTV and monitoring is in place.

Meanwhile the laws still applies. None of what you’ve said in anyway relates to staff and students being recorded on a random device, without knowledge or consent. It’s still illegal. I’m waiting for more spam about IRIS soon…

@Whataninvasionofprivacy there are several issues in your case that are in need of investigation. In no particular order, they are:

• the recording was covert from the children
• the recording was covert from you as an employee
• the recording and previous recordings were not processed or stored securely

It also needs to be established whether the process of obtaining parental consent was adequate for the purpose (even if the recordings were stored correctly).

Each of these issues need to be investigated. They are all important, but each will be covered under different parts of the regs. @GillBeck is pointing out that children come under even higher protection than employees, as "special category data" so a breach here has more serious consequences for the school.

Get out of that school.
No one should be recorded without knowing. That's called spying!
As a teacher, I would never hide that information from a colleague! Why should I know the recording is taking place and not my team mate!
As a parent, I would be livid that the children are being recorded just going about their daily business.
Professional development my a**!! Never needed a recording before, this is called micro managing gone crazy! Reflection after a lesson has taken place is not as effective as reflection IN action anyway.
Please leave that school and whistle blow!

So what are you going to do about it OP?

You have overwhelming support on this thread and received advice from those who know the law. I’m not sure you’ll convince those who are still spiraling off into ‘what could possibly go wrong’ and ‘but cctv’ scenarios at this point.

I’ve had a quick read of the Iris website. They are advising schools to rely on “Public Task” as their legal basis with the caveat that they are not providing legal advice.

So she was in possession of the ipad but wanted you to turn it off ...? I'm still unsure why you had to turn off the ipad unless it was in your possession?

Because the lesson had ended and she was leaving the room with the class and didn’t want it left running. I had no idea it was even being filmed. She whispered to me because she didn’t want the kids to know. @GranPepper

@PowerTulle
I’m going to openly bring it up at our weekly TA meeting in front of everyone, because why not? I now know that my colleagues have also been secretly filmed during this particular teacher’s lesson, but are currently unaware. If I speak privately to SLT I will be asked to keep this quiet, whg should i? So, if I say “Can I ask what the rules are around recording, because I thought we had to be told and not secretly filmed. I thought covertly recording was only allowed if a crime had been committed and thought it was actually illegal to record covertly”

My other concern is that I am now technically involved in the secrecy of this recording, as I was asked to turn it off and told it was covertly recorded.