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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Should I be concerned?

58 replies

whatadaygirlie · 23/10/2024 09:13

I've been dating a man for a few months now. He's very lovely and caring. He's in his 40s. I'm in my late 30s.
My only issue is that he does not make an effort to groom himself. For example, he won't shave routinely, doesn't dress like a grown/ professional man, can be quite disorganised - no wallet, no watch, no calendar to organise his schedule so he just runs from pillar to post and forgets stuff.
My whole life I've been a well dressed lady and have been attracted to men alike. I've asked him to make an effort to present well as I need this to keep my spark but I was met with feedback that i was trying to change him. This hurts as I can see my physical attraction to him going down. I'm not turned on by men who do the scruffy look. I'm just not.
After torturous years of OLD, I'm just glad to have met someone nice. Should I just be grateful or should I be worried that it won't get better from here and perhaps these are signs of bigger problems to come?

OP posts:
Original poster
whatadaygirlie · 23/10/2024 10:05

My definition of scruffy and disorganised is not having enough clothes to take him through a week and having to make emergency stop in the stores to get a pair of boxers for example, wearing the same dirty food-stained top for days in a row, worried that they stink but won't bother to use deodorant/ cologne or take shower after a day getting their hands really dirty, not having one proper T-shirt and shoe to show up to our friend's dinner party and not willing to budge, not having a jacket/ coat to go out in the cold and shutting down the suggestion to have the staples in his wardrobe, completely running out of clothes because they forgot to do laundry but then takes a day off to do that but ends up forgetting and doing something else which is more 'fufiling' etc.,
Writing these down is making me realise how I'm settling. He's an adult, and should have nailed this basic things by now. Not my place to tell him what to do but not a project I should take on ☹️

OP posts:
Bibi12 · 23/10/2024 10:07

Whaaaaaat · 23/10/2024 09:54

I think you are misunderstanding what I said - I didn’t mean there is no difference between scruffy and casual. I meant it makes no difference if he is scruffy OR casual. SHE cannot control him.
Is that better? Not sure why you have twice picked apart my words though.

Show quote history

Of course I know what you meant!
All this correcting and explaining on your part is unnecessary. I stated a fact that he's not casual, he's scruffy. That's all. I didn't say it makes a difference to her changing him.
Let's stay true to what OP actually wrote so people can give their own advice based on facts.

Bibi12 · 23/10/2024 10:17

whatadaygirlie · 23/10/2024 10:05

My definition of scruffy and disorganised is not having enough clothes to take him through a week and having to make emergency stop in the stores to get a pair of boxers for example, wearing the same dirty food-stained top for days in a row, worried that they stink but won't bother to use deodorant/ cologne or take shower after a day getting their hands really dirty, not having one proper T-shirt and shoe to show up to our friend's dinner party and not willing to budge, not having a jacket/ coat to go out in the cold and shutting down the suggestion to have the staples in his wardrobe, completely running out of clothes because they forgot to do laundry but then takes a day off to do that but ends up forgetting and doing something else which is more 'fufiling' etc.,
Writing these down is making me realise how I'm settling. He's an adult, and should have nailed this basic things by now. Not my place to tell him what to do but not a project I should take on ☹️

I couldn't deal with that.

Lonelylonelylonely · 23/10/2024 10:29

If he's that bad (and it sounds to me like a fundamental hygiene problem), how on earth did he make it past the first date?

Didn't you take one look and think, "this isn't my type of person". Surely looking that scruffy must impact on your sexual attraction to him?

Not sure I could date someone who smells and wears the same food stained tops several days in a row. I'd have had the ick long ago.

Leave him. If personal hygiene isn't important to him, presumably keeping a clean house isn't important either and who wants to end up as someone else's housemaid?

BabyCloud · 23/10/2024 10:36

I actually think it’s unfair and could be hurtful to him. Imagine if a man said those things about a woman? He would be crucified.

Sevenwondersofthewoo · 23/10/2024 10:36

Was he scruffy when you met the first time as that’s your answer? Why the changing of him now if so

BabyCloud · 23/10/2024 10:43

Reading your update. How did it even get past the early dates if he’s as bad as you’re making out?

Psychoticbreak · 23/10/2024 11:06

Well you sound delightful. Leave the man alone. Nobody has the power or right for that matter to try and change another person. If someone told me how to dress I would find it controlling and leave to be honestt. I think he is a saint to have put up with you for this long.

TwistedWonder · 23/10/2024 11:19

With respect OP you are trying to change him. He is who he is. This is him. If him being himself doesn’t work for you then it’s a fundamental incompatibility and it’s not worth pursuing

Let him go so you can both find someone more suitable.

I do agree with others that a man coming on here telling a woman how to dress and how to manage her life would be crucified as controlling

ComtesseDeSpair · 23/10/2024 11:22

I’m not sure what your updates are adding, OP. He doesn’t want to change who he is, and you can’t change him. Drip feeding about how he’s actually even worse than you originally portrayed him as doesn’t make any difference to the answer: you don’t want what he is, so you need to end things.

Original poster
whatadaygirlie · 23/10/2024 11:23

Lonelylonelylonely · 23/10/2024 10:29

If he's that bad (and it sounds to me like a fundamental hygiene problem), how on earth did he make it past the first date?

Didn't you take one look and think, "this isn't my type of person". Surely looking that scruffy must impact on your sexual attraction to him?

Not sure I could date someone who smells and wears the same food stained tops several days in a row. I'd have had the ick long ago.

Leave him. If personal hygiene isn't important to him, presumably keeping a clean house isn't important either and who wants to end up as someone else's housemaid?

I met him during the hot summer and that was his excuse for always dressing down - the hot weather and we just did simple things like coffee and walks, so I didn't think much of it. He cleaned up on the days he would see me. When the weather became less warmer, his excuse was that he didn't like carrying a coat around. It was when we began doing sleepovers and sharing homes that I saw that it wasn't the weather or liking to go out light. And cleaning up daily isn't actually the real him.

OP posts:
Opentooffers · 23/10/2024 11:35

This is him, accept it, he's not going to change in his 40's. What's his house like? Does it only go as far as himself?
He sounds like he has some ND, this can't change. Perhaps ADHD given his disorganised thinking. It's not that he won't change, he probably can't and has made peace with how he is over the years.
I get how shit OLD is, but if your only criteria is ' a man who is nice' , that is a low bar.
You are poles apart, better nip it in the bud to avoid extra pain. Sooner the better, you made a mistake entertaining this.

Original poster
whatadaygirlie · 23/10/2024 11:55

Commonsense22 · 23/10/2024 10:02

OO, you are late 30s.
I will tell you the truth nobody wants to hear:

  • the perfect man doesn't exist
  • dating late 30s as a woman is ridiculously hard
  • if you want to have a serious relationship, you will have to choose a serious compromise to make
  • in their overwhelming majority, women have to compromise more than men

The most important questions are:

  • is he respectful of you?
  • has he got a good work ethic?
  • are his finances OK?
  • Is your worldview broadly compatible?
  • Are you on the same page re: kids?

If all of the above is yes, then you need to give your self a good pep talk and accept the scruffy.
Also, my experience is that men can change over the long term for the better. It takes time and patience.

Edited

Thank you for the wisdom. The answer is all yes to the important questions.
This is what some of my married friends said when I was frustrated that he didn't show up to meet them - to compromise and accept that what I need does not come in the package that I want.

OP posts:
YellowHighHeels · 23/10/2024 12:06

I dated exactly this man!! Weird sexual chemistry and very kind in his way but an absolute filth bag and a strange conviction that he was morally superior and above things such as washing. I took it on as a bit of a project (I didn't accept exclusivity) as I love shopping and helped him choose beautiful, good quality new clothes that he liked. They all ended up filthy and ripped. The good shoes we picked were unworn in favour of hideous sweaty trainers. He simply didn't have any interest in appearance or hygiene. I advised him to get a cleaner to cope with his grim, if very well situated flat (money wasn't an object). He did, but still left towels on the floor for her to pick up and never opened the curtains.

I would say sloppy jeans and jumpers is one thing and I truly wouldn't care but unclean (not because of manual work shift), not using deodorant and unavailable to meet friends because ashamed of appearance is quite another.

I think you started the post making him sound a bit less than spiffing, whereas he is actually unhygienic and has problems managing basic life needs. Do you want to get involved? Maybe try one serious conversation about what's going on, not just about clothes, and see if he has plans to fix things proactively. I gave this guy a chance though and in the end he was totally set in his ways. I simply didn't want to live like that or be with someone who reeked.

Sjh15 · 27/10/2024 20:38

You’re just not compatible.
you are trying to change his ‘scruffiness’ and in turn he will start to resent you for trying to change him. Ultimately you are trying to change him.
unfortunately you’ll have to accept his is how he is, or let him go

I’ve also been with a man like this in my late 20s and it was such a headache. One time I suggested we took a day off together and we would go shopping for him. On the morning of, he kicked right off. He didn’t want to spend any of his money on clothes, he saw it as a waste. So we didn’t go. We parted ways after 2 years or so. That wasn’t the only reason tho

CosyLemur · 27/10/2024 20:40

He's correct you're trying to change him; and one of my main rules in life is don't change for anyone!

Unicornsanddiscoballs91 · 27/10/2024 21:10

If I was him, I'd rather be single

lessglittermoremud · 27/10/2024 21:33

As others have said if this was a man telling his new girl friend that she needed to smarten up etc he would be absolutely bashed and told he was being totally unreasonable.
I wonder if the drip feed was because many didn’t agree with your first version, I think your first post would mention lack of cleanliness/deodorant etc first of all if it was truly the case.
I don’t wear a watch, am slightly disorganised and prefer casual clothes ie leggings, flat boots and jumpers. I’ve never had someone try and make me into someone else and they would be given short shift if they tried.
Time to let this one go so he can find himself someone who isn’t so unhappy about his ways and for you to find someone shiny and organised. If you’re annoyed now, it’s only going to get worse and to be fair he hasn’t pretended to be anything that he isn’t, you’re just not well suited to each other.

freckledlegs · 27/10/2024 21:38

Does his name start with P?

NoThanksymm · 28/10/2024 20:51

not compatible. He deserves Simone that appreciates who he is, not how he looks.

move on, find someone that values the outside as you do.

aCatCalledFawkes · 28/10/2024 21:18

whatadaygirlie · 23/10/2024 10:05

My definition of scruffy and disorganised is not having enough clothes to take him through a week and having to make emergency stop in the stores to get a pair of boxers for example, wearing the same dirty food-stained top for days in a row, worried that they stink but won't bother to use deodorant/ cologne or take shower after a day getting their hands really dirty, not having one proper T-shirt and shoe to show up to our friend's dinner party and not willing to budge, not having a jacket/ coat to go out in the cold and shutting down the suggestion to have the staples in his wardrobe, completely running out of clothes because they forgot to do laundry but then takes a day off to do that but ends up forgetting and doing something else which is more 'fufiling' etc.,
Writing these down is making me realise how I'm settling. He's an adult, and should have nailed this basic things by now. Not my place to tell him what to do but not a project I should take on ☹️

The food stained tops 🤮
I was going to say before I read that, that my partner will take feedback about making an effort and a lot of it for him is him getting stuck in a rut while he focused on being a single dad, he even told me the other day he had started using moisturiser. However he’s always washed himself, his clothes and he shaves. I don’t think I could do dirty clothes and not washing,

PloddingAlong21 · 29/10/2024 05:19

This is a wind up post, surely?!

No he won’t change - nor should he.

If this was a post about a man changing a woman everyone would be furious and talk about control, objectification etc.

He is who he is. Stop trying to change him. If his appearance is not your cup of tea, move on.

Sceptical123 · 29/10/2024 05:30

whatadaygirlie · 23/10/2024 09:13

I've been dating a man for a few months now. He's very lovely and caring. He's in his 40s. I'm in my late 30s.
My only issue is that he does not make an effort to groom himself. For example, he won't shave routinely, doesn't dress like a grown/ professional man, can be quite disorganised - no wallet, no watch, no calendar to organise his schedule so he just runs from pillar to post and forgets stuff.
My whole life I've been a well dressed lady and have been attracted to men alike. I've asked him to make an effort to present well as I need this to keep my spark but I was met with feedback that i was trying to change him. This hurts as I can see my physical attraction to him going down. I'm not turned on by men who do the scruffy look. I'm just not.
After torturous years of OLD, I'm just glad to have met someone nice. Should I just be grateful or should I be worried that it won't get better from here and perhaps these are signs of bigger problems to come?

This is really interesting, you’ve said you’re well presented and go for that in a man, and this man hasn’t presented himself as that and then decided not to, but you spoke to him telling him if he doesn’t conform
to your specifications then you will go off him (further). It’s so arrogant for any person to believe they can and should change another person to conform to their ideal human being and partner. Yet it’s widely tolerated when a woman wants to change a man. If he told you he’d prefer it if you lost weight/ remove all body hair/ get a tattoo/ become less needy/ be more laid back etc you’d most likely tell him to fuck off and block him, and many women would be telling you to do this and supporting your decision. You knew what he was like early on, he’s not your child that you are raising and trying to teach how to behave, and getting rid of their bad habits for their own good - he’s a fully grown adult with his own autonomy. Just think how you’d react if a man told you what you should do to improve yourself to his taste early on in a relationship and maybe reflect.

Aroastdinnerisnotahumanright · 29/10/2024 05:45

He sounds awful, not sure why some are telling you to settle for him, I'd much rather be single especially after he showed you up in front of your friends. With your preferences it's not clear why you started dating him in the first place though.

unsync · 29/10/2024 06:16

The fact he has double standards would put me off, as well as the lack of hygiene. Why is it OK to ask you to wear certain things, but you can't expect a basic level of cleanliness from him? It is hypocritical.

You have different standards and values. Unless you are prepared to compromise as he's not going to, it's time to move on.

If you dump him and he then claims he'll make the effort (which is surprisingly common BTW), that would be too little, too late. If he can't make the effort whilst you are together, that tells you all you need to know about your importance to him.