He isn't skint.

[AmIbeingUn]

NC for this as personal/outing. Am wondering AIBU? Or WWYD?

Began seeing a local man met on OLD. We matched so perfectly: same age, local, some mutual acquaintances, similar hobbies, outlook, politics, music taste, humour etc. Found him incredibly sexually and emotionally attractive and vice versa.

We became very close and cosy very quickly: daily contact, usually in person, in and out of each others' houses for coffee and a chat, sleeping over at each others houses often, meeting each other's friends and family. Talked loads, for hours, about a wide range of subjects and very frankly. Within weeks we were so close and comfortable with one another it felt like we'd been together for ages.

The only thing that wasn't perfect was that he had no spare spending money. He had gone part time at work to give him the time to renovate his house, singlehandedly, and those renovations also ate up all the money he had left over after paying mortgage and bills. He warned me that, until the house was finished and he returned to full time working, he could not afford to spend much on going out, going away, buying me gifts, unless it was cheap and we split the costs. I am not materialistic so I did not care and to be honest I am a homely person who is more than happy to have dates at each other's houses, cooking each other a meal or watching a film. For Xmas he saw something in a charity shop window which he knew I would love and he even admitted it had cost him only £2 and said he felt guilty and mean and sorry and hoped I would tolerate his being skint until he got back to work and could treat me properly and take me to a swanky restaurant now and again.

Whilst chatting and being in his home whilst things were happening in his daily life he would mention now and again that he was down to his last few pounds, or that the purchase of some essential building materials or an emergency dental problem or vet bill had wiped his bank account. I am not wealthy but I do have a couple of hundred pounds left over every month which I usually just put into a savings account. He never once asked me for money and in fact when I offered to lend him money once or twice he absolutely refused. When I offered to treat him to a fancy meal out or a theatre ticket he also refused, saying that unless he could pay at least his own share, he would not go. I saw these refusals as a confirmation of his honesty and integrity.

One day I was at his house reading the paper after breakfast and he was opposite me on his laptop. As he went to answer the front door I took the dirty plates to the sink and as I turned round to walk back to the table I could not help myself, my eyes were drawn to the screen which had some kind of spreadsheet of figures. I was absolutely staggered to see that he had stocks and shares and an ISA totalling £1.5m. When he came back into the room I just pretended I had not seen anything because I knew I should not have been snooping but I went home and was literally in shock and also really angry that he had been lying to me the whole time.

Next time I stayed at his I deliberately snooped when he was in the shower, and read an open letter about the sale of a flat he owned (which he had never mentioned to me). £250,000 from the sale had been deposited into my boyfriend's bank account about a week before, and yet that very day he had been saying how broke he was.

Am I in the wrong for snooping or is he in the wrong for telling me for a whole year the lie that he is struggling financially from month to month?

What would you do? Confront him and admit you snooped? End it? Tell yourself his finances are none of your business?

This Christmas sit and watch all versions of the Christmas Carol.

I can never fathom how someone can think they have a great relationship when things like this come to the surface.

It is false. False. False.

Lots of berating of the OP here and not very much helpful advice on how to handle it other than "bin him off".

OP, given that the relationship has been generally great, I would sit him down and tell him that you need to talk about something that has been bothering you.

Explain that a few days ago you saw the figures on his open laptop - you weren't intentionally looking, but as you glanced at them, they grabbed your attention because they were so at odds with what you thought you knew about him.

Say that the large amount of money he appears to have in savings and investments seems completely at odds with his constant claims of/apologies for being unable to afford anything and you can't get your head around it. While you're not joining finances, after two years and looking at a future together, financial transparency is important to you, so could he explain this apparent discrepancy to you?

Don't say too much initially. Don't get into complaints about how you've gone without to accommodate his frugality, don't mention the house sale money. Later on in the conversation, you could ask if there are any other investments or funds that he hasn't previously mentioned and see what he says.

Keep in mind that the purpose of this conversation isn't to resolve anything. It's to see what he says. See if he apologises. See if he has a reasonable plan. See if he volunteers information about the house sale or if he continues to hide it. Then you will know for sure what you want/need to do.

No, you are totally wrong here. It's not about how he views money and how he wants to spend it. It's about LYING.

And he certainly did NOT leave things out for me to find. He just went to answer his front door. I was reading the paper and he probably did not think I would get up and look at his laptop. And he did NOT leave the letter out for me to see, it was in his private office which I never go in!

So, nothing in your life influences the OP. Why does your financial decision making have any relevance to his behaviour?

£2,500 a month is a massive amount for a single person with a small mortgage and frugal ways!

"Later on in the conversation, you could ask if there are any other investments or funds that he hasn't previously mentioned and see what he says."

Whoa! He'd be well within his rights to say "There's the door, been nice knowing you."

On what basis does anyone have a right to interrogate him about his finances? They aren't married, engaged, living together, investing in property together or otherwise entwined. He's not asking her for money and he sounds scrupulous about paying his own way, in addition to offering generous hospitality.

He owes her zero explanations.

I would be annoyed too. If he is testing you, why take this long? The longer it goes on, the more angry you will get. You can't have a real relationship under these circumstances now you know the truth. Imagine if you lived together and he was still pleading poverty while you laid out for everything? Did you not ask why he doesn't invest in s&s as you have made a mint?

PS I would be interested in your stocks and shares! Send ME a screenshot 😀

No it's not.

I had some bookshelves built over the last two weeks; the lumber alone was far more than that. If he's doing renovation work, paying vet bills, and supporting ordinary living expenses, that doesn't go far.

@BettyBardMacDonald I am focusing my spending on things that have value to me, not things that have value to other people.

So is he. He’s prioritising things that are important to him and him alone. This makes for an unbalanced relationship as the OP does think in terms of a more equal, supportive partnership. He needs to stay single with his savings for company (and the queue of women you think will want him as a date will rapidly diminish once they realise his miserly ways mean he won’t buy them a coffee once in a while).

Exactly, you snooped to find it!!

And now your angry because you don't like what you found.

Get some self respect and do something about it

Again, you are misrepresenting the facts of the OP and the points I've made to somehow justify your own situation.

You are not skint but it does sound more and more like you are not good at managing your finances.

I maybe am a bit judging how you allocate your resources because you don't seem very good at it but seem to think you are.

And so again, the problem is not that you, or the OP's partner or anyone at all in the world has a decent pension pot. The problem is that the OP's partner (and yourself) are lying about your financial situation and pretending to be skint.

Then see his reaction, body language and what he says. See if he can look me in the eye
To be honest there's really no.point in approaching it this way. Just tell him straight what you have seen and be honest about how you feel about it all. You didn't snoop deliberately at least the first time and in all honesty, I don't know what MN posters' obsession is with snooping being wrong. Snooping is only wrong if you have no reason to suspect anything and are then invading someone's privacy. Once you have a valid reason to suspect that you are being lied to, in your case genuinely and accidentally seeing what was on his laptop, investigating further is not wrong. In fact, it's a sensible move and can prevent further possible abuse. You are both in your 50's, confront your concerns head on with him and go from there.

This has been a really interesting thread to read and honestly I feel a bit gutted for the OP. I think the crux of it is this - she thought after 2 years she knew someone and is now questioning that. It’s a shock. I feel like it’s totally fair enough to be bothered about it. Being as frugal as he is, is an extreme way of living and after 2 years I would expect to know the why behind it, especially since it impacts the way you both experience the world together.

When she has offered him money it’s great that he has declined it because of course, he clearly has access to money in case of a real emergency. But if I was OP I would feel silly that the decline of the money did not also come with the sharing of information about ‘this is how I live and why, don’t worry I have back up if I really need it etc’. I would expect that after 2 years that someone could share that information with me.

He's been future faking for two years already, @CheekyHobson, he'll keep doing it after OP tries for honesty!

There'll be some reason he can't break into the ISA. Some reason he has to keep losing time/money to save money, his renovations are coming along and he'll be free to live a normal life with OP ... one day.

Oh, OP. I worry about your self esteem and just how much about him there is, that you haven't noticed.

You seem engaging and kind.

You've had a lot of good advice on here, but seem to be focusing on the MN hairy handed trolls that always appear to minimise, argue, berate and blame.

So much this. Some of the amounts of money people are talking about on this thread I can only dream of. Mr Miser is earning nearly twice what I earn in a year. I don't consider myself skint! Might feel a bit more that way when my three month old DS is older, but as long as I can stay in our little flat (social housing) then we should be okay.

Do you really not think it's weird to ask someone online to send you their financial information?!

I can’t help but think he got a kick out of hoodwinking @AmIbeingUn with the “it cost £2, it’s all I could afford” lying. And he knows you would like to go out more and he chooses not to go because he doesn’t care about doing things that make you happy. He is fine having a good time with you as long as it’s something that suits him, but will happily lie again and again to avoid doing anything that he doesn’t want to do.

That’s not a real relationship. And I agree with a PP that the renovations will likely never end because then he will lose his excuse. Put yourself in his shoes. Can you imagine ever lying consistently to your partner so that they never got to do the things they wanted, or accept a decent gift whilst spending £2 on them, while knowing you could afford to get them something nice. That’s the issue. He is choosing every day to continue a lie, could you do that to someone you liked, never mind loved?

A difference of opinion isn't trolling. Why don't you report what you think are trolling threads and let mumsnet deal with it?

I agree their values are very different and I've said several times previously that his moaning about what things cost would be very irritating.

That said, I do not think he owes anyone any explanations, nor do I think he is "lying" when he says money is tight. Most forward-thinking people consider their retirement savings to be untouchable. (Financial advisors say 'pay yourself first' and then forget the money is there, to avoid temptation).

Real estate isn't readily liquidated. If he's making do on his salary / consulting fees alone, at the level the OP has stated, and buying building materials etc. out of it, then he does have tight cash flow.

She said he hosts generously at his home, he just doesn't wish to spend on entertainment elsewhere. That's his prerogative. The OP's is to find a man with different spending patterns, not browbeat him into explaining himself and/or spending money he doesn't wish to part with.

@AmIbeingUn Other than what appears to be his money hoarding problem, it sounds like he's a genuinely decent man. I don't think he's deliberately set out to lie to you about his money (sure he has lied by omission and as time goes on sometimes these things become harder to fess up to). If he does have a mental illness he's possibly compartmentalised his assets into long term, cannot touch if my life depends on it, and his current income stream via work. He probably genuinely believes that he can only live off his part time income.
I will save X amount a month and not touch it (after a year I transfer to an ISA) I've not had any major emergencies, but if I get an unexpected expense I'll usually buy it on a credit card and pay it off after a couple of months, rather than dip into my savings as that just feels wrong (and I'd also get an interest penalty). If I don't have any surplus cash left over and a friend says "do you want to go to XYZ" I'll say no I can't afford it. I could afford it, but only if I go into my savings, which I won't do. Sounds like this is what he is like only a more extreme case.

If you genuinely love him and otherwise enjoy his company then why end it? You are a financially independent woman in your own right. He's long in the tooth now so unlikely to change. Maybe start a conversation with him about future plans and say you'd love to one day live together but his miserly attitiude and unwillingness to spend money on activities etc makes that a deal breaker and see how he reacts. Personally I'd love your set up, although his moaning about being poor all the time would grate - I'd personally tell him he sounds like a broken record and to tone it down.

Well he can. Or, if he wants to continue the relationship because he values his partner in the long term and it's important to her that there's financial transparency between her and the person she's with, he could answer it.

You're confusing asking a question with an interrogation. Everyone is entitled to ask a question, everyone is entitled to answer the way they wish (or not answer).

If he said "No, nothing" and the OP then went on to ask further questions about it ("Are you sure? How do I know you're not lying", etc), demand to see bank accounts, etc, then you could be validly accusing her of an interrogation. But simply asking a question on a matter that is of importance to her is perfectly acceptable relationship behaviour.

Hes an.out and out liar, £2 gift from.a charity shop when he's sat on a million +. Wtf is that about.
He only works pt cos he's loaded.
I couldn't be with a liar and have ended relationships because of.
You need not tell him you snooped.
Suggest a holiday abroad, semi expensive, say you fancy dubai price it up etc make it all realistic. When he comes out with I can't afford it shite, say oh OK, I'll go on my own then.
Then just cool off don't be so available and let it fizzle out. You're absolutely worth better than a mean stingy liar

One way to understand what's going on here is to listen to his family and friends talk about him, and see what they say. If he's always been like this, it will come up in conversation, in jokes, or just chat. That's a good way to see if the person presenting themselves to you is different to how they usually are with others, and I'd always want to see someone in a variety of situations, work, with colleagues, out with friends, how they deal with family, to see if they are a good person. Do they help their neighbours out occasionally? What do their friends think? Do they tease him about his miserliness when he's last to the bar?

You say you have mutual acquaintances, but I'm betting you say he doesn't really have many friends, or go out for social occasions. People who are this miserly won't be out with friends buying rounds or planning even a cheap holiday away. Call it a sixth sense.