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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He isn't skint.

1000 replies

AmIbeingUn · 19/10/2024 09:32

NC for this as personal/outing. Am wondering AIBU? Or WWYD?

Began seeing a local man met on OLD. We matched so perfectly: same age, local, some mutual acquaintances, similar hobbies, outlook, politics, music taste, humour etc. Found him incredibly sexually and emotionally attractive and vice versa.

We became very close and cosy very quickly: daily contact, usually in person, in and out of each others' houses for coffee and a chat, sleeping over at each others houses often, meeting each other's friends and family. Talked loads, for hours, about a wide range of subjects and very frankly. Within weeks we were so close and comfortable with one another it felt like we'd been together for ages.

The only thing that wasn't perfect was that he had no spare spending money. He had gone part time at work to give him the time to renovate his house, singlehandedly, and those renovations also ate up all the money he had left over after paying mortgage and bills. He warned me that, until the house was finished and he returned to full time working, he could not afford to spend much on going out, going away, buying me gifts, unless it was cheap and we split the costs. I am not materialistic so I did not care and to be honest I am a homely person who is more than happy to have dates at each other's houses, cooking each other a meal or watching a film. For Xmas he saw something in a charity shop window which he knew I would love and he even admitted it had cost him only £2 and said he felt guilty and mean and sorry and hoped I would tolerate his being skint until he got back to work and could treat me properly and take me to a swanky restaurant now and again.

Whilst chatting and being in his home whilst things were happening in his daily life he would mention now and again that he was down to his last few pounds, or that the purchase of some essential building materials or an emergency dental problem or vet bill had wiped his bank account. I am not wealthy but I do have a couple of hundred pounds left over every month which I usually just put into a savings account. He never once asked me for money and in fact when I offered to lend him money once or twice he absolutely refused. When I offered to treat him to a fancy meal out or a theatre ticket he also refused, saying that unless he could pay at least his own share, he would not go. I saw these refusals as a confirmation of his honesty and integrity.

One day I was at his house reading the paper after breakfast and he was opposite me on his laptop. As he went to answer the front door I took the dirty plates to the sink and as I turned round to walk back to the table I could not help myself, my eyes were drawn to the screen which had some kind of spreadsheet of figures. I was absolutely staggered to see that he had stocks and shares and an ISA totalling £1.5m. When he came back into the room I just pretended I had not seen anything because I knew I should not have been snooping but I went home and was literally in shock and also really angry that he had been lying to me the whole time.

Next time I stayed at his I deliberately snooped when he was in the shower, and read an open letter about the sale of a flat he owned (which he had never mentioned to me). £250,000 from the sale had been deposited into my boyfriend's bank account about a week before, and yet that very day he had been saying how broke he was.

Am I in the wrong for snooping or is he in the wrong for telling me for a whole year the lie that he is struggling financially from month to month?

What would you do? Confront him and admit you snooped? End it? Tell yourself his finances are none of your business?

OP posts:
BettyBardMacDonald · 19/10/2024 18:08

OnaBegonia · 19/10/2024 18:01

Maybe set him up with skint @BettyBardMacDonald
The value of his investments etc isn't the main issue for OP, it's his lies.
He constantly whinges he is too poor/can't afford anything with his big sad face, that's deliberate.
@BettyBardMacDonald you also are not skint, sell a house if you're struggling 😅

I'm far from struggling, never said I was, but some months my cash flow is tight. Because I am sticking to my long-range planning and priorities, as OP's boyfriend apparently is. Unlike him, I don't talk about it to my SO and he doesn't bore me with his day-to-day money matters.

I think some people understand the concept of delayed gratification/playing the long game, and some do not.

FloozingThePlot · 19/10/2024 18:08

Aside from the lying, being miserly is not an attractive quality.

AmIbeingUn · 19/10/2024 18:10

Bestyearever2024 · 19/10/2024 11:45

The theatre thing says it all

He brought a carton of ribena with him and wouldn't buy you maltesers, also he purchased the very cheapest seats

Plus a £2 gift for Christmas/birthday 🤣

Despite the S & S ISA and the £250k (which could be earmarked for house renovations) he has money (he buys nice food for himself) and could have chosen to spend some money on you

It's been 2 years so he knows you're not a money grabber

I'd talk to him about it to give him the opportunity to explain, with a view to dumping him if his explanation is pants

"also he purchased the very cheapest seats"

Er I had to pay for my own ticket even though I never even liked the real band they were impersonating. I only went to keep him company.

He's not stingy with food when I stay with him by the way. He makes us a massive all day fry up breakfast on a Sunday with all the trimmings and is happy to pile my plate up along with his own. I stay at his slightly more often than he stays at mine so he actually buys more food for me than I do for him.

Ashamed to say I have done builders-labouring and sweeping up for him and now I know he could easily have afforded a labourer, In the summer a teenage boy advertised his services for just £10 and hour and I send his ad to my boyfriend who said "that would be lovely, if only I could afford him."

OP posts:
Delphiniumandlupins · 19/10/2024 18:11

I think both of you are wrong, him for lying and you for snooping. I also believe neither of you set out to do this for bad reasons.

Has he ever, in his past, lived less frugally? You mention one foreign holiday with his mother, no other holidays in 56 years? Do you have any idea how much of the recent flat sale was profit or was there a mortgage to pay off?

I don't think you can, or should, carry on pretending you don't know about his wealth. You don't know exactly his financial position but you do believe he has lied massively and that will eat away at you. You could push him to discuss his plans for the future, working part-time is fine if that's what he wants. Maybe he's lived like this for so long he's forgotten why.

BirthdayRainbow · 19/10/2024 18:11

You are totally wrong to snoop and you've missed the point.

He hasn't taken anything from you. He's paid his own way. He just hasn't spent loads on you. That's fine.

He probably wanted to see if you were genuine or not and liked him for him or his bank account. I think he has his answer.

AmIbeingUn · 19/10/2024 18:13

HollyKnight · 19/10/2024 18:07

You really think he has less than £85k in a cash ISA and over a million in stocks&shares? If so, he's a bit of an idiot financially then.

He's not going to liquidate assets prematurely just so he can buy his new gf gifts. That's not good financial planning.

"He's not going to liquidate assets prematurely just so he can buy his new gf gifts"

Nowhere have I suggested that.

BUT it is not outrageous, outlandish or unheard of for a couple in a love/sex relationship to exchange gifts at Xmas and birthdays. He earns £28k, which is more than me, and could have afforded to spend £10 or £20 on a gift. He isn't 12 years old!

OP posts:
Runskiyoga · 19/10/2024 18:15

So it looks like frugality and saving is his obsession, and hidden but in plain sight at the same time. I think these are his values - to save, to hoard money, to live on very little. I suspect he takes a lot of pleasure in that growing total. Maybe he has a fantasy of revealing it to you in the future, to great fanfare, or maybe he thinks he can't trust anyone (they will try to make him spend more if they know he has means - the house is a convenient ruse). You could be curious 'do you enjoy not spending, or would you like to spend more if you didn't worry about money?' but you probably can't get into it without telling him what you saw. I don't see how you can not tell him. 'I'm confused about how often you say you are broke, when it seems likely that you do have more money available - why make it seem like you don't?'

AmIbeingUn · 19/10/2024 18:17

BirthdayRainbow · 19/10/2024 18:11

You are totally wrong to snoop and you've missed the point.

He hasn't taken anything from you. He's paid his own way. He just hasn't spent loads on you. That's fine.

He probably wanted to see if you were genuine or not and liked him for him or his bank account. I think he has his answer.

That is NOT FAIR.

In none of my posts have I suggested or even hinted that he "should" be spending "loads" on me. In fact I have said the exact opposite, and several times! So stop misquoting or lying about me.

I have stated again and again that I am 100% fine with paying my own way. Paying my share, paying my half. But he won't pay HIS half. He pretends to have no money.

OP posts:
GROMIT50 · 19/10/2024 18:18

AmIbeingUn · 19/10/2024 09:54

Not marriage but a long term partnership, probably living together for the rest of our lives (we are both over 50).

You are not sure what I am asking, even though I put it as plainly and clearly as I could in my OP?

"Am I in the wrong for snooping or is he in the wrong for telling me for a whole year the lie that he is struggling financially from month to month?"

"What would you do? Confront him and admit you snooped? End it? Tell yourself his finances are none of your business?"

How would you feel if he was snooping around your finances, it your own fault for looking, he doesn't need to tell you anything, prob thinks you will start asking him for money.

pikkumyy77 · 19/10/2024 18:18

There is no unknowing what you know. For all his thrift he is living life on the never never—he will always prioritize NOT paying money over life pleasures or even completing a task he wants completed.

There is a small bit significant difference between being thrifty and being stingy. The first one knows the value of money snd things and exchanges them appropriately. The second one values money above everything—even other people.

He gets his greatest pleasure not spending money. He enjoyed not hiring the boy helper at ten pounds and happily exploited your good nature because it saved him ten pounds. It cost you something but he didn’t care. He likes getting something for nothing.

goody2shooz · 19/10/2024 18:19

BirthdayRainbow · 19/10/2024 18:11

You are totally wrong to snoop and you've missed the point.

He hasn't taken anything from you. He's paid his own way. He just hasn't spent loads on you. That's fine.

He probably wanted to see if you were genuine or not and liked him for him or his bank account. I think he has his answer.

@BirthdayRainbow - you’ve spectacularly missed the point, he’s been pleading abject poverty for the entirety of their relationship. There’s ’wanting to see if you were genuine’ but the constant , daily, lies?? For almost two years??

ilovebrie8 · 19/10/2024 18:20

He’s lied simple as that …claimed he’s got no money I’d end it…

stinginess is an deeply unattractive trait! Cheapest seats at cinema, £2 on a Xmas gift …nope!

fair enough if he was on his uppers but he clearly isn’t …I’d not bother with this any longer as the whole time he’s been lying saying he’s penniless when he’s far from it.

Runskiyoga · 19/10/2024 18:20

I actually think you have been a saint to put up with the constant money talk and nursing one drink, the maltesers and your two pound present - he's clearly been very good company in other ways but he has been a bore and an embarrassment in those ways.

pikkumyy77 · 19/10/2024 18:21

GROMIT50 · 19/10/2024 18:18

How would you feel if he was snooping around your finances, it your own fault for looking, he doesn't need to tell you anything, prob thinks you will start asking him for money.

Its not a question of fault though. Fault is irrelevant. She might have been wrong for snooping but it hasn’t changed who she is in the relationship. She is still the same person she represented herself to be. her wrong act doesn’t cancel his lies out.

LightOfTheLake · 19/10/2024 18:21

You sound a lovely, kind, intelligent, well balanced and positive person. It doesn’t look like there is going to be an end to this extreme frugalness as it’s not actually based on their real life situation, it’s how they are. I would want to move on and enjoy life fully.

biscuitandcake · 19/10/2024 18:22

AmIbeingUn · 19/10/2024 18:17

That is NOT FAIR.

In none of my posts have I suggested or even hinted that he "should" be spending "loads" on me. In fact I have said the exact opposite, and several times! So stop misquoting or lying about me.

I have stated again and again that I am 100% fine with paying my own way. Paying my share, paying my half. But he won't pay HIS half. He pretends to have no money.

You are going to have a lot of people crawling out of the woodwork to call you a gold digger OP. I don't think you are, but every time a thread is posted about money some people do this. No matter what the dilemma actually is. If you do end up staying with him, don't get into the weird position of trying to "prove" to him you are not a gold digger by e.g. spending loads of money, not minding if he treats you with a lack of consideration. That is NOT the same thing as expecting a boyfriend to shower you with diamonds etc. But at a bare minimum the same level of care/consideration/round buying you would show friends. eg if my friends helped me with my house I would be incredibly grateful and at least offer to buy them a meal with drinks etc. Does he do that for you?

AmIbeingUn · 19/10/2024 18:23

Delphiniumandlupins · 19/10/2024 18:11

I think both of you are wrong, him for lying and you for snooping. I also believe neither of you set out to do this for bad reasons.

Has he ever, in his past, lived less frugally? You mention one foreign holiday with his mother, no other holidays in 56 years? Do you have any idea how much of the recent flat sale was profit or was there a mortgage to pay off?

I don't think you can, or should, carry on pretending you don't know about his wealth. You don't know exactly his financial position but you do believe he has lied massively and that will eat away at you. You could push him to discuss his plans for the future, working part-time is fine if that's what he wants. Maybe he's lived like this for so long he's forgotten why.

@Delphiniumandlupins asks

Has he ever, in his past, lived less frugally? You mention one foreign holiday with his mother, no other holidays in 56 years? Do you have any idea how much of the recent flat sale was profit or was there a mortgage to pay off?

Yeah he has mentioned in conversation having visited various countries. But then he has openly admitted to earning good money until he went part time.

The solicitors letter did not mention a mortgage. It just said something like We are pleased to say the sale was completed on X date and yesterday we deposited the net proceeds of [something like] £250,000 [I don't remember the exact sum] into your current account.

OP posts:
AmIbeingUn · 19/10/2024 18:28

@biscuitandcake "eg if my friends helped me with my house I would be incredibly grateful and at least offer to buy them a meal with drinks etc. Does he do that for you?"

Yes. He always cooks me a meal if I am at his house at breakfast time or lunch time or dinner time. And he won't let me wash the dishes, either. We have a nice time together, when he isn't whinging about being broke he's great company, a very entertaining speaker, great humour, and very knowledgeable about a wide range of things from sociology to art and good in bed and affectionate and quite gentlemanly (opens doors for me etc). This is what has kept me with him despite his being (I thought) so broke that our dates are always frugal.

OP posts:
LlynTegid · 19/10/2024 18:28

It has come as a shock to you, unpleasant, it is never nice to be lied to or misled. Ending the relationship is I think the right thing to do, painful as it will be.

Probably you need to tell him why. I'm not sure it's a good thing to be leaving the information you found out accessible, if ever someone else visits and they found out, he could be a target for attempted scams.

timenowplease · 19/10/2024 18:29

BettyBardMacDonald · 19/10/2024 18:00

That's absurd. Finding out that a potential partner has tonnes of debt is far different than learning a boyfriend with separate finances has a goodly amount of investments.

As to me, I think I am pretty good with money. Putting off a 1k investment in new tyres for a month because I decided to upgrade my living room or go to Hawaii in business class is not a sign of poor financial management. I do not use credit or overdraft, ever; am mortgage-free and have a decent nest egg for my old age. Do not rely on anyone, help others, give to charity. And still do fun things.

The boyfriend's constant moaning about money would be annoying. But it's hardly "lying" if in his mind, his budget doesn't allow for things. We're all allowed to set our financial priorities as we see fit. I consider it unseemly to be eyeballing someone else's accounts.

You have done really well for yourself and I admire that. That's not what this discussion is about.

The question is whether he has been dishonest to OP regarding his financial circumstances and I believe he has. Not because he hasn't told her he has money but because he has told her countless times he is skint and he lives like that is the case. Not the £2 xmas gift, but the song and dance which accompanied it. Absolutely revolting behaviour with the benefit of hindsight and the knowledge that he has substantial savings and investments.

You should maybe do some self reflection about your own situation. Do you realise that most people would have had to put that pet down because they could never have afforded to pay a 7k vet bill? Or flying somewhere business class? Your perspective is completely skewed.

Being skint means not being able to do a proper shop, or having to make a choice between a food shop or paying a gas bill, or not having a winter coat or proper shoes. It certainly doesn't mean you have more than a million pounds squirreled away somewhere.

And fyi the scenario I put to you is not absurd. It's a direct reverse of the OP's situation. Would you have a relationship with someone like that?

JudgeJ · 19/10/2024 18:30

MugPlate · 19/10/2024 09:39

The foundation of the relationship is a lie. I expect he has previous experience of feeling taken advantage of but that doesn’t excuse the behaviour now.
What else might he have concealed?

It's also trust and I could not trust someone who was deliberately snooping in my private business such as investments. A man doing this would be called abusive, such is the MN double standard. He should LTB!

Jammedchakra · 19/10/2024 18:30

HollyKnight · 19/10/2024 18:07

You really think he has less than £85k in a cash ISA and over a million in stocks&shares? If so, he's a bit of an idiot financially then.

He's not going to liquidate assets prematurely just so he can buy his new gf gifts. That's not good financial planning.

ISA can also be stocks and shares, an ISA doesn’t mean cash. I don’t hold 85k of cash and have >£1m invested. I’m a Chartered IFA 😂

Living off investments isn’t liquidating anything.

GROMIT50 · 19/10/2024 18:32

Perhaps in his eyes, he is skint, stock and shares are not cash he can spend straight away, £250,000, from sale of his property could be renovation cost, if your snoop at least do it properly, it seems you only got half the information, no disrespect mumsnet, if it was the bloke snooping you would accuse him of being controlling and to leave him, maybe he should leave her.

BirthdayRainbow · 19/10/2024 18:32

AmIbeingUn · 19/10/2024 18:17

That is NOT FAIR.

In none of my posts have I suggested or even hinted that he "should" be spending "loads" on me. In fact I have said the exact opposite, and several times! So stop misquoting or lying about me.

I have stated again and again that I am 100% fine with paying my own way. Paying my share, paying my half. But he won't pay HIS half. He pretends to have no money.

I never said you wanted him to spend loads on you. Calm down. I'm not misquoting or lying about you fgs. If you'd put the length in your OP you'd have got different replies.

AmIbeingUn · 19/10/2024 18:34

GROMIT50 · 19/10/2024 18:18

How would you feel if he was snooping around your finances, it your own fault for looking, he doesn't need to tell you anything, prob thinks you will start asking him for money.

Oh what grounds could I "start asking him for money"?

He knows (because I have told him openly and honestly) that I have paid off my mortgage, that my monthly outgoings are very low, and that I am able to put £200 to £250 a month into savings.

He knows (because I have told him openly and honestly) that I have thousands of pounds in stocks and shares and an ISA.

So how could I ask him for money?

OP posts:
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